Somethings not right?

[zdan30]

I just sent 10x Syn and 10x Osaka to coordinate an attack on a Xenon defence station and after 30 minutes the station has suffered zero damage

This was all OOS while i was in the next sector heading for the gates to stop any reinforcements and it wasnt until i checked back to see where i could send them next i noticed they are all circling the station just soaking up damage.

It`s my first run through with no mods since the game came out and most things have been fine so far but this is just weird.

I have all L turrets set on the Syn`s to attack capital ships and they are all L PAR plasma and the 2x M turrets are set to attack fighters (ARG Flak)
All the turrets on the Osaka`s are set to attack fighters.

When i noticed the issue i changed all L Plasma`s to attack all enemies and waited 10+ minutes but nothing happened.

If i go in sector and control the command ship there`s an absolute hail of fire at the defence station and it doesnt seem to be an issue.

The only other thing i can think of is the fleet leader is three star and the rest are as they came out the shipyard so probably 1 star but still after 40 minutes they shouldve landed a couple of hits

Edit
A save after the initial 30 minutes
https://www.mediafire.com/file/0k9twy7c ... ml.gz/file

[iforgotmysocks]

The 4.1 release version has 3 major bugs that make it pretty much unplayable.

1. OOS damage calculations are screwed. Capital ships apply almost no damage, fights go on forever -> Universe stagnates
viewtopic.php?f=180&t=442483

2. Stations simply don't die at 0% hp as the parts themselves get restored faster than they can be destroyed unless one might get lucky or the build storage runs out of resources. -> Universe stagnates
viewtopic.php?f=146&t=442546

3. Turrets simply stop firing IS if they loose line of fire to their first target. They no longer pick a new target and just stop firing unless realigned to their first acquired target.
viewtopic.php?f=180&t=440906

I have no idea why they weren't hotfixed yet but right now all you can do is play industry simulator without any map changes due to combat.

[Sterling Silver]

I just sent 10x Syn and 10x Osaka to coordinate an attack on a Xenon defence station and after 30 minutes the station has suffered zero damage

This was all OOS while i was in the next sector heading for the gates to stop any reinforcements and it wasnt until i checked back to see where i could send them next i noticed they are all circling the station just soaking up damage.

It`s my first run through with no mods since the game came out and most things have been fine so far but this is just weird.

I have all L turrets set on the Syn`s to attack capital ships and they are all L PAR plasma and the 2x M turrets are set to attack fighters (ARG Flak)
All the turrets on the Osaka`s are set to attack fighters.

When i noticed the issue i changed all L Plasma`s to attack all enemies and waited 10+ minutes but nothing happened.

If i go in sector and control the command ship there`s an absolute hail of fire at the defence station and it doesnt seem to be an issue.

The only other thing i can think of is the fleet leader is three star and the rest are as they came out the shipyard so probably 1 star but still after 40 minutes they shouldve landed a couple of hits

Edit
A save after the initial 30 minutes
https://www.mediafire.com/file/0k9twy7c ... ml.gz/file

This has actually been reported in Technical Support believe it or not.
viewtopic.php?f=180&t=442483

[Malchar]

Univers stagnations is not a 4.1 feature. It started the the V4 or if you prefere, last dynamic universe was the v3.3 one.

Stations are still destroyable but it requires a fabulous fire power, so a number of ships that the AI will never reach.

[Jaskan]

I am seeing the same problem of xenon stations being impossible to kill

But the question i really have is this, Why do Egosoft, and steam and other game developers insist that we the buyers of their product are forced to updates.

In terms of products and value for money, Each game should allow you to store versions of the game you are happy with based on how much memory you have, so that if you not happy with version 4.1 you can return to version 3.3

This totally stupid idea of taking customers along for the bug ride makes complete foolishness of buying a product given chances are you wount be able to use the product come next update.

Now in software industry its common for people heart rate to go up when they hear the word update.

The entire software industry that enforce updates on their customers are taking them for fools.

Currently what i do is use cheat menu to delete stations that won't die, then i thought why the hell am i still playing this game if manually deleting stations to kill them.

Steam does not allow you to turn off updates either. The software industry will b forced to stop using their customers as test team if people decided not to buy software that forces them into updates without proving ability to roll back.
In a few years or decades when common sense comes to software industry folks will wonder how they ever put up with the idea of buying a product that could be useless by next update. Thats a rip off, i should be able to choose which version of the game is current for me.

Its excatly the same way the hellish windows blue screen 10 works, but folks should not stoop so low as to allow game developers to treat them like Microsoft does, vote with your feet.

Stop buying a product thats a moving goal post of bugs without ability to choose a version

[Malchar]

, so that if you not happy with version 4.1 you can return to version 3.3

you can, if you dont mind to play without coh.

[humility925]

I am seeing the same problem of xenon stations being impossible to kill

But the question i really have is this, Why do Egosoft, and steam and other game developers insist that we the buyers of their product are forced to updates.

In terms of products and value for money, Each game should allow you to store versions of the game you are happy with based on how much memory you have, so that if you not happy with version 4.1 you can return to version 3.3

This totally stupid idea of taking customers along for the bug ride makes complete foolishness of buying a product given chances are you wount be able to use the product come next update.

Now in software industry its common for people heart rate to go up when they hear the word update.

The entire software industry that enforce updates on their customers are taking them for fools.

Currently what i do is use cheat menu to delete stations that won't die, then i thought why the hell am i still playing this game if manually deleting stations to kill them.

Steam does not allow you to turn off updates either. The software industry will b forced to stop using their customers as test team if people decided not to buy software that forces them into updates without proving ability to roll back.
In a few years or decades when common sense comes to software industry folks will wonder how they ever put up with the idea of buying a product that could be useless by next update. Thats a rip off, i should be able to choose which version of the game is current for me.

Its excatly the same way the hellish windows blue screen 10 works, but folks should not stoop so low as to allow game developers to treat them like Microsoft does, vote with your feet.

Stop buying a product thats a moving goal post of bugs without ability to choose a version

original patch was supposedly fix bug, upgrade supposedly improve features or add new features in old day, and in old day, there was manual list of upgrade/patch version list on website like 1990 to 2000, more or less.

As time went by, companies changed, most of them no longer offer many type version of patch/upgrade, ( I guess it's could cause confused of report as some
people report bug, but only because older or new version even mod or no mod, so I think companies just upgrade latest version and not offer older version to make easier to track down people report issues, ensure it's same version, so that way easier to track down bug and patch it up, rather than trying to ask people what was version they was on when they had issues, cause more work.

It's just easier for companies to do that while same time it's limited option of people who prefer version due issues they had with hardware issues.

Companies believe most people always seem upgrade latest version as it's no point to keep older version, even thought latest version may cause new issues while old do not.

Some do try around this by beta version before public version to ensure smoothly bugfree, they do both upgrade/patch same time to make easier work even thought it's may limited player's option.
Since upgrade is based of improve or add new features while patch is simple bugfix. Sometime companies even removed features.

Very complicated, but I assume you long ago some companies did that but it's too much work and confused when people report issues yet not said what was version they using, othercase people report bug or issues, but it's might cause mod that companies that are not cause but mod's part, that may wastie companies' time and money, so go on.

I do understand your mind, I am too, as why not list of version, because there is time new version cause problem and not fun or cause issues while I perfer older version, even so, I am sometime rather upgrade, patch and balance to set apart, as I might not like new features or do not like balance of they way (I'm looking at total warhammer 2, when they nerfed up and down, since I was playing solo, single player, not MMO, but they balance on based of MMO to hurt single player and background's lore all in name so called balance. I just sometime want patch, not upgrade or balance. (they should add option of balance of what player think or believe what is balance, not on companies' balance on few people report while most had no issues, sometime major people like overpower but company nerfed anyway and some people got mad about it. So go on.

Had gave option to player do greater gameplay, but huge cost to companies' money and time, along code issues that cause a painful bug to fix.
So Companie's own way would save lot of money, time and won't risk more option that cause more risk of issues but at cost of player's option of prefer, sady
it's seem can't do both, but good companies might tried balanced that on based companies' ability of create, track down and fix bug with time they had and what afford to keep companies running.
I could be wrong.

[The Q]

In terms of products and value for money, Each game should allow you to store versions of the game you are happy with based on how much memory you have, so that if you not happy with version 4.1 you can return to version 3.3

You can already do that: In Steam rightclick on X4: Foundations choose settings -> betas and select the legacy version you want to play. The list even goes back to 3.20.

[Jaskan]

In terms of products and value for money, Each game should allow you to store versions of the game you are happy with based on how much memory you have, so that if you not happy with version 4.1 you can return to version 3.3

You can already do that: In Steam rightclick on X4: Foundations choose settings -> betas and select the legacy version you want to play. The list even goes back to 3.20.

Thanks for that will check it out

[peteran]

I just sent 10x Syn and 10x Osaka to coordinate an attack on a Xenon defence station and after 30 minutes the station has suffered zero damage

This was all OOS while i was in the next sector heading for the gates to stop any reinforcements and it wasnt until i checked back to see where i could send them next i noticed they are all circling the station just soaking up damage.

It`s my first run through with no mods since the game came out and most things have been fine so far but this is just weird.

I have all L turrets set on the Syn`s to attack capital ships and they are all L PAR plasma and the 2x M turrets are set to attack fighters (ARG Flak)
All the turrets on the Osaka`s are set to attack fighters.

When i noticed the issue i changed all L Plasma`s to attack all enemies and waited 10+ minutes but nothing happened.

If i go in sector and control the command ship there`s an absolute hail of fire at the defence station and it doesnt seem to be an issue.

The only other thing i can think of is the fleet leader is three star and the rest are as they came out the shipyard so probably 1 star but still after 40 minutes they shouldve landed a couple of hits

Edit
A save after the initial 30 minutes
https://www.mediafire.com/file/0k9twy7c ... ml.gz/file

This has actually been reported in Technical Support believe it or not.
viewtopic.php?f=180&t=442483

In my mind, a thread with no response from the developers isn't worth squat. The OP in this thread has a clear set of steps to reproduce the problem.

Mods: Merge

[Mistle]

All the problems of the game have been summarized very nicely in this thread.
If I remember correctly devs even try to fix Xenon problems in patch 4.1 but the end result is even worse.
This leads to conclusion that game could achieve point that is not possible to implement new functions at the level of game core mechanics, at least from the point of dev.
The situation is quite quite common in IT companies when product owner wants new features, scrum master don't defend dev team enough so devs implement patch on previous patches, so nobody remember what change gives what, or something like that.
Sometimes is even easier to build new game from the scratch than trying to repair old product.
For now in the series of movies what X4 is, part of fight and think (who needs thinking in static world) should be deleted.
I also want to hear statement from Egosoft what is possible to patch in this game, what will be moved to the next DLC or next game and so on.
But it would take a lot of courage to say straight about problems and it could ends in taking break from the game or even lovering game rating on the steam so nobody will admits to the problems.

[Old Drullo321]

The 4.1 release version has 3 major bugs that make it pretty much unplayable.

1. OOS damage calculations are screwed. Capital ships apply almost no damage, fights go on forever -> Universe stagnates
viewtopic.php?f=180&t=442483

2. Stations simply don't die at 0% hp as the parts themselves get restored faster than they can be destroyed unless one might get lucky or the build storage runs out of resources. -> Universe stagnates
viewtopic.php?f=146&t=442546

3. Turrets simply stop firing IS if they loose line of fire to their first target. They no longer pick a new target and just stop firing unless realigned to their first acquired target.
viewtopic.php?f=180&t=440906

I have no idea why they weren't hotfixed yet but right now all you can do is play industry simulator without any map changes due to combat.

There is one more in addition to 2.:

5. Stations cripple turrets/engines of bigger ships (L/XL) to the point of sitting ducks, while point 2 mentioned above is vallid, especially for their own weaponry/turrets
viewtopic.php?f=180&t=442305

As far as i can see, they already fixed most of them, but it seems their patch/release cycle either doesn't allow hotfixing them or those bugs doesn't seem to be that critical for them. But there can be other reasons too. Maybe a couple of them have holidays. Egosoft is a small team, delays should be expected. At least for me, 75% of the reason why I stopped playing X4 and waiting for an update are those bugs. The other 25% are some bugs, flaws and/or missing features for properly managing mass moving of ressources, especially for Terraforming.
Don't get me wrong, it is totally valid not hotfixing this or to gather more fixes or feature patches or even release it as a major update with an upcoming DLC because maintaining and updating a game on various platforms, creating news and patch articles costs time too with then is missing for other crucial tasks.
However some of these bugs were already reported half through the beta and nothing happened and if some of them play their own game, I can't believe half of those get past the radar. In my opinion they are very noticeable.


####

In my mind, a thread with no response from the developers isn't worth squat. The OP in this thread has a clear set of steps to reproduce the problem.

Is there really a need for that. As you can see, they already responded in most if not all of those linked threads, and also in most of them they either fixed or trying to fix it in an upcoming release. I guess it is a bad habit to demand responses from the devs. You can be sure they are aware of those problems. It isn't really efficient to respond in each thread that they're working on the problem.

[Jaskan]

Its a shame that this thread is not pinned for response from egosoft.
the xenon stations are indestructible.

I would roll back to like version 3.3, but concerned the extensions i use with x4 might not be compatible with older x4 versions.

Egosoft need to fix this and OOS calculations are way off also.

[Imperial Good]

Xenon stations are not indestructible. If you park the destroyers facing the station and in range of main batteries the station dies fairly quickly, even with the known bug of stations ordering reconstruction when in combat (that is fixed in a future version). It may take a few minutes before significant hull damage starts as a lot of the damage is diverted to stripping turrets, but the station will eventually die.

To me it seems the issue is that the destroyers are trying to broad side the stations when in low attention levels. Given that most of their damage is from their main batteries that only shoot forward even in low attention levels, it is unlikely they will do much to a station when flying circles around it.

[Matthew94]

An X4 update that ruins part of the gameplay? I, for one, am shocked. Maybe 5.0 will fix everything.

[iforgotmysocks]

Xenon stations are not indestructible. If you park the destroyers facing the station and in range of main batteries the station dies fairly quickly, even with the known bug of stations ordering reconstruction when in combat (that is fixed in a future version). It may take a few minutes before significant hull damage starts as a lot of the damage is diverted to stripping turrets, but the station will eventually die.

To me it seems the issue is that the destroyers are trying to broad side the stations when in low attention levels. Given that most of their damage is from their main batteries that only shoot forward even in low attention levels, it is unlikely they will do much to a station when flying circles around it.

In my case my 10 battleships & destroyers with L plasma turrets should rip appart a station rather quickly while flying circles around it. When i teleport IS most of the station popped before the asgards and destroyers even aligned to use their main cannons. But OOS they applied almost no damage.

A less tanky station that i attacked with a larger force and got to 0% eventually stayed that way for 12 more hours!!! until i gave up.

[Imperial Good]

In my case my 10 battleships & destroyers with L plasma turrets should rip appart a station rather quickly while flying circles around it.

That is because turrets deal much reduced damage in low attention calculations. If they did not then stations would be instantly vaporised by a Branch 9 Destroyer I. In low attention 80% (or more) of the damage from destroyers and Asguards is from the main batteries.

Try parking them facing the station. It makes a huge difference. In low attention I have soloed Xenon Solar Powerplants using a single Syn, without modified batteries.

[iforgotmysocks]

In my case my 10 battleships & destroyers with L plasma turrets should rip appart a station rather quickly while flying circles around it.

That is because turrets deal much reduced damage in low attention calculations. If they did not then stations would be instantly vaporised by a Branch 9 Destroyer I. In low attention 80% (or more) of the damage from destroyers and Asguards is from the main batteries.

Then this needs to be fixed. Xenons are a joke. Having OOS encounters being solely decided by front facing weapons which were a horrible design choice to begin with while the way a player chooses the outfit of turrets on a ship thinking it would actually impact it's capabilities is literally dumbing down combat for no reason and takes away the only real choice a player can make about how a capital ship should perform in a certain situation. That's a significant factor why OOS is so horrible compared to IS combat if turret damage is really as reduced as you say.

[Imperial Good]

That's a significant factor why OOS is so horrible compared to IS combat if turret damage is really as reduced as you say.

It is worse than that since turrets can miss in low attention combat while guns do not. For example a S sized ship will not be instantly killed by a Branch 9 Destroyer I since the Gravaton turrets will struggle to hit it in the low attention calculations, while they will hit larger ships like destroyers and battleships for huge damage. On the other hand the XL main battery of the Asguard will one shot S ships in low attention combat due to being a gun despite it being statistically improbable that it will ever be able to hit an S ship with the XL main battery in high attention, even in player hands. Ships like the Rattlesnake and Syn destroy multiple S ships per hit from the L main batteries in low attention, yet in sector both are unlikely (it can happen, but only rarely) to hit S and M sized ships with the main battery, although the player can do something similar with a modified Syn at least as the L main batteries do have a gimble and auto aim to use.

[iforgotmysocks]

Ya, that front facing weapons dont have a miss chance has been asked to be addressed for quite some time now. Hopefully ego will listen and replace the oos calculation with something that makes any sense. :/