Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

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Andarni2
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Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by Andarni2 » Wed, 1. Dec 21, 13:58

So I just started playing X4 and I'm very confused with something my miners are doing.

I built a self sustainable station in Argon Prime which at the beginning was doing medical supplies. As a part of the Medical supplies production chain I bought miners to mine ice. Everything was going very well, the miners were going automatically to Hatikvahs choice and Second Contact, two decent yield places, and I didnt even need to tell them to go there. Now I decided to expand my factory and start producing microchips, so I added a Silicon Wafer factory and a bought 5 extra M miners to add them to the existing ones.

I assumed they would just go to another decent yield place, like they did for the Ice, and now that their number doubled they would somehow split themselves into mining both at the same time.
Turns out they don't. They went to mine Silicon all of them apart from 1 or 2 out of 10. Then they try to mine it directly in Argon Prime where there is barely no Silicon to mine. I'm not even sure they are mining the one there is correctly because I have had 6 miners just floating together in a random empty place on the middle of Argon Prime for 4 hours now, the other 2 being floating in a similar way on other empty spaces of the sector. They might be mining SOMETHING very few times because I can see they have, after 4 hours, amounts between 2 and 50 silicon on their cargos but it still is completely useless to my factory at this pace. It is even counterproductive because, for some reason, while they try to mine SIlicon without managing they DON'T mine Ice. Ergo my factory is regularly running out of ice while I have 8 miners floating around the sector doing nothing.

So, what's the deal? How does this work and why is it working for the ice and not for the Silicon? They all have available space on the factory everything is correctly set to buy, just as it is for the ice, and I know for a matter of fact that there is more Silicon on nearby sectors because I can see some asteroids when I fly around there, and the wikipedia states that they have, for exemple Hatiksvah's Choice II, just 2 sectors away has 10 times more.

I need ANSWERS and RESPONSABILITIES. I'm trying to run a business down here! :)

Galinet
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by Galinet » Wed, 1. Dec 21, 18:55

If I understand correctly you have 1 station that mines both ice and silicon. The AI does not handle this very well.

A simple fix is to have 1 station that mines ice and another that mines silicon. Then you use mineral miners to transport ice and silicon to your main station.

Myself I use 3 mining stations. Each station has 1 small container storage, 1 large mineral storage and 1 large gas storage. I assign (to mine) 1 mineral miner and 1 gas miner as well as (to trade) 1 mineral miner and 1 gas miner). Finally I go to the Logical Overview and add 2 wares, 1 mineral and 1 gas:
  • Ore & Hydrogen
  • Silicon & Methane
  • Ice & Helium
Finally I set a trade rule for buy offers such that only my own faction/miners can sell their wares there. And I also do that for the sell offers.

Andarni2
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by Andarni2 » Wed, 1. Dec 21, 23:17

I see, so there is no way to have a completely self-sufficient station then? That's disappointing... Thanks for the info!

Bastelfred
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by Bastelfred » Thu, 2. Dec 21, 00:10

Andarni2 wrote:
Wed, 1. Dec 21, 23:17
I see, so there is no way to have a completely self-sufficient station then? That's disappointing... Thanks for the info!
How many stars does your manager have in the station? You know, more stars more sectors range. This is the case for trade and also for mining.
Next... did you at least place some probes? Also, the stars of the mining ship pilots are not unimportant.

But the most important point... first check what is available on the spot and then build a station. Argon Prime is very, very, very poor in resources. The neighboring sectors are also not good.

You can build a self-sustaining mega factory, but you must first find a place where it will work. Argon Prime is not such a place.

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grapedog
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by grapedog » Thu, 2. Dec 21, 01:08

You can have self sufficient stations. There was a bug some people encountered a while ago that caused their stations to have issues when trying to mine multiple resources. That bug didn't affect everyone, and has since been tweaked. Ive never had a single issue with multi resource stations, nor do i now.

Make sure you put down resource probes. Grand Exchange has decent silicon as does the 2nd Second Contact sector, and i think Antigone Memorial too.

Also, most likely, for a factory that had already been running a while... you had ice, and added all of the sudden a big need for silicon. Your manager recognizing that you needed silicon bad, sent all available ships to get it. It can take some time, but they should be getting both as needed. It won't hurt though to set the buy price to minimum and occassionally buy resoueces from the NPCs for cheap.

Andarni2
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by Andarni2 » Thu, 2. Dec 21, 01:40

Bastelfred wrote:
Thu, 2. Dec 21, 00:10
Andarni2 wrote:
Wed, 1. Dec 21, 23:17
I see, so there is no way to have a completely self-sufficient station then? That's disappointing... Thanks for the info!
How many stars does your manager have in the station? You know, more stars more sectors range. This is the case for trade and also for mining.
Next... did you at least place some probes? Also, the stars of the mining ship pilots are not unimportant.

But the most important point... first check what is available on the spot and then build a station. Argon Prime is very, very, very poor in resources. The neighboring sectors are also not good.

You can build a self-sustaining mega factory, but you must first find a place where it will work. Argon Prime is not such a place.
Well my manager has 3,5 stars, my pilots have between 2 and 3 stars most of them. According to their information that would let them travel up to 3 gates to pick the ressources. It is true that I haven't put probes yet but I just don't understand why they are not going to 2nd Contact where there is 10 times more silicon than Argon Prime. It is obvious for me that Argon Prime is not the optimal place to put a mega-factory but I am legitimately puzzled by why the IA is not even close to use the best mining places on it's neighborhoring area. Just one extra question, does someone know the maximum radio they can reach on an ideal situation (5 star manager+5 stars pilot?)

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grapedog
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by grapedog » Thu, 2. Dec 21, 01:51

Andarni2 wrote:
Thu, 2. Dec 21, 01:40
Bastelfred wrote:
Thu, 2. Dec 21, 00:10
Andarni2 wrote:
Wed, 1. Dec 21, 23:17
I see, so there is no way to have a completely self-sufficient station then? That's disappointing... Thanks for the info!
How many stars does your manager have in the station? You know, more stars more sectors range. This is the case for trade and also for mining.
Next... did you at least place some probes? Also, the stars of the mining ship pilots are not unimportant.

But the most important point... first check what is available on the spot and then build a station. Argon Prime is very, very, very poor in resources. The neighboring sectors are also not good.

You can build a self-sustaining mega factory, but you must first find a place where it will work. Argon Prime is not such a place.
Well my manager has 3,5 stars, my pilots have between 2 and 3 stars most of them. According to their information that would let them travel up to 3 gates to pick the ressources. It is true that I haven't put probes yet but I just don't understand why they are not going to 2nd Contact where there is 10 times more silicon than Argon Prime. It is obvious for me that Argon Prime is not the optimal place to put a mega-factory but I am legitimately puzzled by why the IA is not even close to use the best mining places on it's neighborhoring area. Just one extra question, does someone know the maximum radio they can reach on an ideal situation (5 star manager+5 stars pilot?)
Station subordinate pilots stars do not really matter, unless they have more stars than the station manager. If both manager and pilot are the same, or the manager is higher, then the pilot stars dont matter at all for the distance the ship can go. You do want pilots to have at least 2 stars, which you can get with seminars.

Put down some resource probes, it does help your pilots find good yeilds or at the minimum, know which sectors have decent yields.

Max distance is 5 sectors.

Think of it this way.... the manager and a resource probe should get your pilot to the right sector, usually. Then when in sector, a base of 2+ stars means your miners should mine somewhat efficiently. Make sure they have mining lasers, and the more mining probes the better for L's. I typically do 2/7/1 for probes, Cargo, Mining, Repair.

Andarni2
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by Andarni2 » Thu, 2. Dec 21, 02:21

grapedog wrote:
Thu, 2. Dec 21, 01:51
Andarni2 wrote:
Thu, 2. Dec 21, 01:40
Bastelfred wrote:
Thu, 2. Dec 21, 00:10


How many stars does your manager have in the station? You know, more stars more sectors range. This is the case for trade and also for mining.
Next... did you at least place some probes? Also, the stars of the mining ship pilots are not unimportant.

But the most important point... first check what is available on the spot and then build a station. Argon Prime is very, very, very poor in resources. The neighboring sectors are also not good.

You can build a self-sustaining mega factory, but you must first find a place where it will work. Argon Prime is not such a place.
Well my manager has 3,5 stars, my pilots have between 2 and 3 stars most of them. According to their information that would let them travel up to 3 gates to pick the ressources. It is true that I haven't put probes yet but I just don't understand why they are not going to 2nd Contact where there is 10 times more silicon than Argon Prime. It is obvious for me that Argon Prime is not the optimal place to put a mega-factory but I am legitimately puzzled by why the IA is not even close to use the best mining places on it's neighborhoring area. Just one extra question, does someone know the maximum radio they can reach on an ideal situation (5 star manager+5 stars pilot?)
Station subordinate pilots stars do not really matter, unless they have more stars than the station manager. If both manager and pilot are the same, or the manager is higher, then the pilot stars dont matter at all for the distance the ship can go. You do want pilots to have at least 2 stars, which you can get with seminars.

Put down some resource probes, it does help your pilots find good yeilds or at the minimum, know which sectors have decent yields.

Max distance is 5 sectors.

Think of it this way.... the manager and a resource probe should get your pilot to the right sector, usually. Then when in sector, a base of 2+ stars means your miners should mine somewhat efficiently. Make sure they have mining lasers, and the more mining probes the better for L's. I typically do 2/7/1 for probes, Cargo, Mining, Repair.
Thank you so much! I will apply those improvements and try again :)

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oddible
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by oddible » Thu, 2. Dec 21, 04:56

Part of why "self sufficient stations" don't work is they don't scale well. Better to have specialist stations supplying each other and routes set up between them with self-only trade restrictions.

Andarni2
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by Andarni2 » Wed, 8. Dec 21, 01:19

Andarni2 wrote:
Thu, 2. Dec 21, 02:21
grapedog wrote:
Thu, 2. Dec 21, 01:51
Andarni2 wrote:
Thu, 2. Dec 21, 01:40


Well my manager has 3,5 stars, my pilots have between 2 and 3 stars most of them. According to their information that would let them travel up to 3 gates to pick the ressources. It is true that I haven't put probes yet but I just don't understand why they are not going to 2nd Contact where there is 10 times more silicon than Argon Prime. It is obvious for me that Argon Prime is not the optimal place to put a mega-factory but I am legitimately puzzled by why the IA is not even close to use the best mining places on it's neighborhoring area. Just one extra question, does someone know the maximum radio they can reach on an ideal situation (5 star manager+5 stars pilot?)
Station subordinate pilots stars do not really matter, unless they have more stars than the station manager. If both manager and pilot are the same, or the manager is higher, then the pilot stars dont matter at all for the distance the ship can go. You do want pilots to have at least 2 stars, which you can get with seminars.

Put down some resource probes, it does help your pilots find good yeilds or at the minimum, know which sectors have decent yields.

Max distance is 5 sectors.

Think of it this way.... the manager and a resource probe should get your pilot to the right sector, usually. Then when in sector, a base of 2+ stars means your miners should mine somewhat efficiently. Make sure they have mining lasers, and the more mining probes the better for L's. I typically do 2/7/1 for probes, Cargo, Mining, Repair.
Thank you so much! I will apply those improvements and try again :)
Ok, so I'm rebumping this because I tried these recomendations, I found 2 sectors with good yields at 3 gates of Argon Prime: Getsu Fune and Antigone Memorial, I placed probes at both places which are giving me more than 2 stars of yield. I reactivated the silicon factory and the miners are back are being immobile in the middle of Argon Prime. I assume this is just bugged and it just doesn't work as intended right? :?

Eyeklops
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by Eyeklops » Wed, 8. Dec 21, 02:16

Can you upload a save for review?

Andarni2
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by Andarni2 » Wed, 8. Dec 21, 02:31

Eyeklops wrote:
Wed, 8. Dec 21, 02:16
Can you upload a save for review?
Sure! I got it, how do I share it with people? What is the preferred method in these forums?

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Matthew94
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by Matthew94 » Wed, 8. Dec 21, 02:32

The retarded-miner issue showed up in the great mining nerf of 2021 where fun was outlawed. It's amazing that it's still ruined to this day. Unfortunately what you are experiencing is by design. It's the way Egosoft want you to play.

Eyeklops
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by Eyeklops » Wed, 8. Dec 21, 02:37

Andarni2 wrote:
Wed, 8. Dec 21, 02:31
Eyeklops wrote:
Wed, 8. Dec 21, 02:16
Can you upload a save for review?
Sure! I got it, how do I share it with people? What is the preferred method in these forums?
Gofile, Dropbox, Google drive. Any of those will work.

Andarni2
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by Andarni2 » Wed, 8. Dec 21, 02:48

Eyeklops wrote:
Wed, 8. Dec 21, 02:37
Andarni2 wrote:
Wed, 8. Dec 21, 02:31
Eyeklops wrote:
Wed, 8. Dec 21, 02:16
Can you upload a save for review?
Sure! I got it, how do I share it with people? What is the preferred method in these forums?
Gofile, Dropbox, Google drive. Any of those will work.
Ok here is the save:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xnWIst ... sp=sharing

Eyeklops
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by Eyeklops » Wed, 8. Dec 21, 04:39

Disclaimer: I tested this on 4.20B4HF1. If the below fix doesn't work I can roll back to 4.10 and check it again.

I looked at your save and the station and miners appear to be setup correctly. As you said, the miners were all bunched up in a group in Argon Prime. I manually cleared all the miners order queues. A few instantly went to dock and unload a mixture of ice and a small amount of silicon. The rest went to Antigone Memorial to mine silicon or ice.

If I were to guess, the miners had orders to mine in Argon Prime from before you placed the probes in Antigone Memorial. The miners won't automatically stop mining and move to another area when a new probe is dropped. Clearing the miner's queues reset the "best" place to mine and fixed the problem.

TLDR Fix: Clear the miners order queue.

Andarni2
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by Andarni2 » Wed, 8. Dec 21, 12:09

Eyeklops wrote:
Wed, 8. Dec 21, 04:39
Disclaimer: I tested this on 4.20B4HF1. If the below fix doesn't work I can roll back to 4.10 and check it again.

I looked at your save and the station and miners appear to be setup correctly. As you said, the miners were all bunched up in a group in Argon Prime. I manually cleared all the miners order queues. A few instantly went to dock and unload a mixture of ice and a small amount of silicon. The rest went to Antigone Memorial to mine silicon or ice.

If I were to guess, the miners had orders to mine in Argon Prime from before you placed the probes in Antigone Memorial. The miners won't automatically stop mining and move to another area when a new probe is dropped. Clearing the miner's queues reset the "best" place to mine and fixed the problem.

TLDR Fix: Clear the miners order queue.
Thank you very much for your help but It is not working for me! :? I clear the orders (not orders and assignments, only orders) and they go to dock and unload but then they go back to their empty spot at Argon Prime :? :? . Maybe it's a matter of the version you said you are using? Can you check? (I would check myself but that 4.20 version do not seem to show up on my Steam Betas section)

Edit: I stand corrected, 2 eventually went to antigone memorial BUT they seem to be mining the ice, not the silicon and I still have 7 miners out of 9 floating motionless on the middle of Argon Prime after unloading...

Edit 2: I confirm, after multiple cicles of mining there are 2 miners going to antigone memorial to mine the ice only and 7 motionless at argon prime.

Eyeklops
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by Eyeklops » Wed, 8. Dec 21, 14:49

After work tonight, I'll revert my game back to 4.1 and take another look at it.

Eyeklops
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by Eyeklops » Thu, 9. Dec 21, 03:54

OK, reverted back to 4.10.

Started off with the same process as before. Deleted everything from the miners order queue. The results this time were the same as yours. The miners got new orders to mine the same spot in Argon Prime. I then told your little miner to pickup the 3 resource probes in Argon Prime. I once again cleared the miners order queue. This time the miners took off for Antigone Memorial to mine. I let it run for a few hours and seems to be working fine.

TLDR Fix: Remove resource probes from Argon Prime, clear miners order queue.

Note: The fact that 4.20 handled this much better shows that progress is being made in how the miners determine where "good" areas are to mine regardless of some probes being in "bad" areas.

Andarni2
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Re: Is this a bug? Or am I doing something wrong?

Post by Andarni2 » Thu, 9. Dec 21, 13:10

Eyeklops wrote:
Thu, 9. Dec 21, 03:54
OK, reverted back to 4.10.

Started off with the same process as before. Deleted everything from the miners order queue. The results this time were the same as yours. The miners got new orders to mine the same spot in Argon Prime. I then told your little miner to pickup the 3 resource probes in Argon Prime. I once again cleared the miners order queue. This time the miners took off for Antigone Memorial to mine. I let it run for a few hours and seems to be working fine.

TLDR Fix: Remove resource probes from Argon Prime, clear miners order queue.

Note: The fact that 4.20 handled this much better shows that progress is being made in how the miners determine where "good" areas are to mine regardless of some probes being in "bad" areas.
Man, I'm so grateful that you helped me so much! I wouldn't have found the solution otherwise. Evenmore, I found the way to download the public beta and now my complex is working flawlessly!

I wish I could give honor on these forums.

Thank you mate! Have a nice day!

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