You can't be Pirate in X4, only Corsair

[mr.WHO]

I had high hopes with 5.0 and ToA, but I'm very dissapointed that there is very little to no improvement with Pirate gameplay in X4.


Currently it's impossible to be a Pirate as you need to be friendly with at least one major faction, which mean you have to be corsair first, before you can let loose.



Playing as pirate that is generaly hostile to most, makes you very limited with access to many crucial parts of the game that are essential for pirate gameplay.

You can't swap ship equipment without access to blueprints, Auxilary ship, ED, Shipyard - even if you board axilary ships, you're still limited by having access to proper blueprints.
You can't obtain blueprints in illegal way (like reverse engineering, or spies or black market).
You can't obtain wharf/dock/shipyard as none of pirate faction have them as sellable blueprints.
You can't deconstruct ships, wreck salvage is unpirate and require you to settle with some industry.
You can't obtain crew/marines, unless you have access to habitats and shipyard/ED/Wharf.



Here are my ideas how to improve X4, to have proper pirate gameplay:
- allow us to capture crews, bailed pilots and escape pods - the brig room from 5.0 would be perfect for this - as well as ability to "recruit" crew from captured personel.
- allow us to deconstruct ship hull in player wharf/shipyard.
- allow us to obtain blueprint via black marketeeer (at hefty markup), add pernament black marketeer to player HQ (new room).
- alow us to reverse engineer equipment and ship blueprints at HQ.
- alow us to steal ED/wharf/shipyard blueprints via some kind of pirate mini-plot mission chain.
- add ED/wharf/shipyard blueprints to SCA/VIG/RIP/HAT/ALI/BUC factions.
- add new type of M-size ship, that is like old TM from X3, but also perform like mini auxilary ship, that can service S-size ships.
- add new type of L-size ship that is like smaller Auxilary ship that can service S/M-size ships.

[Raptor34]

Have been thinking about it and came up with an idea I call Artisan Shipyards.
Basically these would be alternate ship building modules with the following advantages:
1. Easily accessible, you can hack them, buy them from all factions except TER at +10.
2. Cheap BP, should cost at most 20% of the cost of the full build modules.
3. Cheaper in terms of Claytronics but costs more Hull Parts.

Downsides would be:
1. Needs workforce to actually operate, has a minimum workforce before they start working, and then a max workforce where they work at full speed. Kinda like how build drones work, but these build modules don't use that many drones, instead it's more handcrafted.
2. Costs more in time and resources to actually build a ship. At max build speed it'll be 2x for S/M ships, 3x for L ships and 4x for XL ships. That's time and resource cost to confirm.
3. Bonus if they need Spaceweed/Fuel to function.

Basically the idea is that part of a faction's power is that they have automated ship printers to rapidly churn out ships, but other lesser factions need to make do with an older style of ship building.
Also for those who don't actually want to build ships but want to be able to get ships on demand on occasion, this would be a lower cost alternative. Though in the long term the actual automated build modules is more cost effective.

[Raevyan]

Well thats not really surprising that 5.0 and ToA didn't change much of the pirate game. Not even the scrapping is a pirate activity since you just collect scrap from already destroyed ships. Calling ToA a pirate dlc is pretty misleading.

[NightmareNight91]

The fact that they didn't give VIG or even YAK the build module blueprints really erks me.

[oddible]

Yeah this is a pretty big disappointment. Was hoping at least for some better support for pirating in the faction relationship system. Instead this dlc has zero to do with pirating and is really just some new sector mechanics and salvage.

[mr.WHO]

And salvage is not even that useful as you only partially cover the variety of ship/equipment components.

I miss the X3 ship deconstruction and it's bizzare since aparently NPC factions deconstruct ship hull in their shipyards/wharfs

[MarcusInVR]

Isn't there at least one sector which is a kind of a freeport where one can buy and sell anything one wants, no matter the reputation?

I miss the X3 ship deconstruction and it's bizzare since aparently NPC factions deconstruct ship hull in their shipyards/wharfs

This could be a solution.

[mr.WHO]

Isn't there at least one sector which is a kind of a freeport where one can buy and sell anything one wants, no matter the reputation?

I miss the X3 ship deconstruction and it's bizzare since aparently NPC factions deconstruct ship hull in their shipyards/wharfs

This could be a solution.

Nice, but this doesn't solve anything for unmodified gameplay.

[KalisaFox]

at the very least i hope they do what they did in x3 with sponsored mods becoming "dlc" though i do hope we see a proper salvage/reverse engineering of ships added to base game eventually, that and ability to get ship building tech without having to work with a major faction, either be it an expensive plot mission in the HQ that unlocks a new tech or some deals with pirate factions or something.

[Fenris321]

Ah, that's too bad, I was really hoping to do a proper pirate play through. I've done the trading empire thing too many times, I even built a mega self sustaining shipyard, and in each case the other empires only existed because I allowed them to. At any time I could have built an overwhelming armada and wiped out the galaxy.

The most fun I had was when I played as a pirate and only flew what I could capture. I never got overpowered but still had a lot of fun being the "bad guy". After a year long break I do want to start a new game as a pirate, so I guess it's time to look into mods again. Or maybe the custom starts which I don't believe were there when I took my break.

[Bastelfred]

Here are my ideas how to improve X4, to have proper pirate gameplay:
- allow us to capture crews, bailed pilots and escape pods - the brig room from 5.0 would be perfect for this - as well as ability to "recruit" crew from captured personel.

Not absolutely necessary. But you should also get personnel on pirate bases. That would be a much simpler solution with mechanics already in place.

- allow us to deconstruct ship hull in player wharf/shipyard.

And you build the shipyard with which blueprint? There is a reason why you cannot steal some BP.

I would be in favour of revising the BP model somewhat without redesigning it. BP should be reordered according to reputation. Then you get them all for free. If you lose a reputation, you lose the BP again. If you use a BP, you pay licence fees for it every time (so that player shipyards would finally be balanced without the AI always buying ships for ridiculously low prices). The same for station modules. How ridiculous is it that I should buy a BP for 16 million just because I want to build the module 1x. Or pay 1x 16 million and then build it 1000000000x.
The system in the game is unrealistic, licences are only ever granted for a certain amount, but no one sells the rights to build something without losing the rights to it themselves.

And then there should be BP with limited usability. If I remove an L-plasma tower from a ship at my pirate station, I should get an L-plasma tower BP that I can use once. In this way, you could then build this L-plasma tower on another ship without introducing new game mechanics.

Then we just need a junkyard module for a pirate station. Where you can convert modules into BP and back. Without the ability of a shipyard.

Everything else has absolutely nothing to do with piracy for me.

[oddible]

Ultimately I think the OP nails it though. Without a way to get ship / weapon blueprints or to get a whard / shipyard the concept of a pirate game breaks down pretty quickly. Sure, you can make enemies with all the factions and capture their ships. Ultimately you have to support their economies though or they don't produce any ships for you to take - so you can't capture all their transports or miners. You need them to keep their bases. You can't go for an attrition strategy with them or you starve them and stop your own ability to capture their ships as there won't be any ships to capture. The pirate way only works up to a certain point at which point the devs need to consider what the end game is for a pirate playthrough and that is missing from ToA. There is nothing past mid-game.

[darkstar12]

I am sorry

Playing as a pirate wanting a wharf and shipyard?

Pirates steal and hide and hit from the shadows on easy targets.
Owning a shipyard/stations makes you into anything but a Pirate. A crime Lord is what it becomes then. and eventually perhaps what some would call Pirate Lord/Crime Lord with then a "empire" of their own.

Not saying any of you are wrong that there should be available such things for more of the smaller factions. But saying you can't be a Pirate who only steals ships and hits easy targets makes little sense.

[Raptor34]

Ultimately I think the OP nails it though. Without a way to get ship / weapon blueprints or to get a whard / shipyard the concept of a pirate game breaks down pretty quickly. Sure, you can make enemies with all the factions and capture their ships. Ultimately you have to support their economies though or they don't produce any ships for you to take - so you can't capture all their transports or miners. You need them to keep their bases. You can't go for an attrition strategy with them or you starve them and stop your own ability to capture their ships as there won't be any ships to capture. The pirate way only works up to a certain point at which point the devs need to consider what the end game is for a pirate playthrough and that is missing from ToA. There is nothing past mid-game.

Just like Real Life! Except in RL the factions would send overwhelming force before it reaches that stage.
Funny how no one asks for that part.

[Lord Dakier]

Ultimately I think the OP nails it though. Without a way to get ship / weapon blueprints or to get a whard / shipyard the concept of a pirate game breaks down pretty quickly. Sure, you can make enemies with all the factions and capture their ships. Ultimately you have to support their economies though or they don't produce any ships for you to take - so you can't capture all their transports or miners. You need them to keep their bases. You can't go for an attrition strategy with them or you starve them and stop your own ability to capture their ships as there won't be any ships to capture. The pirate way only works up to a certain point at which point the devs need to consider what the end game is for a pirate playthrough and that is missing from ToA. There is nothing past mid-game.

Just like Real Life! Except in RL the factions would send overwhelming force before it reaches that stage.
Funny how no one asks for that part.

I would like that. It'd make mid and late game far less boring.

[oddible]

I am sorry

Playing as a pirate wanting a wharf and shipyard?

Pirates steal and hide and hit from the shadows on easy targets.
Owning a shipyard/stations makes you into anything but a Pirate. A crime Lord is what it becomes then. and eventually perhaps what some would call Pirate Lord/Crime Lord with then a "empire" of their own.

Not saying any of you are wrong that there should be available such things for more of the smaller factions. But saying you can't be a Pirate who only steals ships and hits easy targets makes little sense.

Focused on one thing, missed the point though. The problem is that the game stalls mid-game if you're a successful pirate since you entirely rely on the faction economies that you've been crippling all game. There is nothing past mid-game. (I mean, it isn't much better for non-pirate starts either with no real advantage to capturing sectors.)

[mr.WHO]

I am sorry

Playing as a pirate wanting a wharf and shipyard?

Pirates steal and hide and hit from the shadows on easy targets.
Owning a shipyard/stations makes you into anything but a Pirate. A crime Lord is what it becomes then. and eventually perhaps what some would call Pirate Lord/Crime Lord with then a "empire" of their own.

Not saying any of you are wrong that there should be available such things for more of the smaller factions. But saying you can't be a Pirate who only steals ships and hits easy targets makes little sense.

You need a base to equip your ships at least.
Making makeshift ships was a thing in X3 and for Somali pirates, so no, shipyard is totally fine with pirate nature.

[Raptor34]

I am sorry

Playing as a pirate wanting a wharf and shipyard?

Pirates steal and hide and hit from the shadows on easy targets.
Owning a shipyard/stations makes you into anything but a Pirate. A crime Lord is what it becomes then. and eventually perhaps what some would call Pirate Lord/Crime Lord with then a "empire" of their own.

Not saying any of you are wrong that there should be available such things for more of the smaller factions. But saying you can't be a Pirate who only steals ships and hits easy targets makes little sense.

You need a base to equip your ships at least.
Making makeshift ships was a thing in X3 and for Somali pirates, so no, shipyard is totally fine with pirate nature.

You mean EQ Dock.
Also there should be a way to transfer equipment from one ship to another.
Costlier perhaps, but pirates make do.

[NightmareNight91]

Without being able to move weapons and other modules from ships to another ship then we NEED a equipment dock or wharf/shipyard to outfit ships. Its not like in X3 where I could scavenge weapons off captured ships and kit out my ships based out of a military transport.

[mr.WHO]

Without being able to move weapons and other modules from ships to another ship then we NEED a equipment dock or wharf/shipyard to outfit ships. Its not like in X3 where I could scavenge weapons off captured ships and kit out my ships based out of a military transport.

It's very sad that X3 didn't need shipyards, ship deconstruction or reverse engineering for pirate gameplay, but still had it.
while
X4 badly need it, but doesn't have any in freaking 5.0.