A better alert when a ship is destroyed?

[Socratatus]

I have had my first couple of cheap Freighters. Sent my first one to trade while doing my own thing. The first one was attacked and destroyed. She only had time to say she was hit and it was over, but I caught the message and realised what happened.

Second time though my Freighter was doing ok for a while. But then it was gone. maybe I missed the warning while in the map, or maybe I got up to get a cup of tea and it got attacked and destroyed.

What I'm saying is whenever a ship is destroyed we should get some kind small flashing tab pop up at the bottom left or right of the screen to tell us one of our ships has been destroyed until we click it off. It stays there in case we went off to get a cup of tea or something. Something that says your "Freighter X was destroyed at map ref X" and That way we shouldn't miss one of our freighters 'vanishing'.

[oddible]

Honestly I want a better alert when one of my ships is under attack. They often get lost or buried. I want it to be as loud as the Global Orders alerts.

[KextV8]

It would need to be optional or else it would break the game once you have large empire to have that stuff popping up every time one of your random ships takes a stray shot.

[oddible]

Honestly I want a better alert when one of my ships is under attack. They often get lost or buried. I want it to be as loud as the Global Orders alerts.

[DanKara]

Something that says your "Freighter X was destroyed at map ref X" and That way we shouldn't miss one of our freighters 'vanishing'.

Let's hope that this is about to change soon™.
This related thread got a 'task number' ... something is happening.

[oddible]

Not destroyed, just being attacked! ; )

[Socratatus]

It would need to be optional or else it would break the game once you have large empire to have that stuff popping up every time one of your random ships takes a stray shot.

Optional is good, you can't fail with optional.

Not destroyed, just being attacked! ; )

I'm not against when attacked, but I certainly want to know that my Freighter has been destroyed as soon as I return to my pc. You can end up playing for a while before you realise it's gone otherwise. Knowing it was destroyed and the Notice staying on screen until you ackowledge it is REALLY important . That's the whole point of my post.

[Good Wizard]

Actually it is possible to get an 'alert' if one of your ships is attacked. It is optional, but the pilot will send you a message.

The problem is: While the option is called 'Inform me...' it actually is not only inform it is a request what to do. This is something I had to learn the hard way. So instead of just informing you the pilot calls you and asks what to do. Combined with the inadequacies of the entire message system (messages of every kind work fine, as long as you do not have the map open) this is often fatal, because the pilot actually waits for your decision. In a fight or in the map this can take a few seconds or even longer. And in this time the ship is destroyed. If you do not answer, the configured default is used, but by then it is too late.

Added to this is a new behavior which seems to disable the use of the 'F' key (answering calls) while in the map. This worked with 4.x, and was reported in the Beta. Now you have to leave the map manually, and if you are not fast enough, the call times out.

Combine this with the AIs inability to AVOID dangers. A Scout will happily try to fly THROUGH a Khaak installation while exploring. Which ends fatal obviously. It is pure chance, sometimes the movements of the Scout ship while exploring are not near enough to be attacked, and sometimes the ship simply dies.
'Hey Captain, what is this red thing on our scanners?' - 'No idea, lets have a look' - 'Hey they shoot on us!!' - 'Okay, keep calm and lets call the boss, what to do...' - WHAM...

So the existing option to be informed of attacks is better not used, except with ships which can safely ignore attacks a while anyway - L-ships.

So a pure message would be needed in contrast to the existing 'Inform me...'. Or maybe an acoustic alert, but such an alert can easily be drowned by other sounds.

The message system of X4 is a problem anyway. While the messages on the left hand side are nice, they are going away much too fast. You barely have time to read them, especially if you are focused on other things on screen. And they are simply missing while in the map.

Often while checking my possessions on the map I find a ship missing. After this it is hunting through the message list, where the ship was destroyed and guess what happened.

What we need is an AI, which can be ordered to AVOID dangers, i.e. hostile stations and fleets. A trader will happily deliver wares to a station under attack by a Xenon K, often it can land and do the trade, but after this he will launch, stand near the station and 'look for trades'. Not long, obviously. Or a trader will just blindly follow his path, through a Xenon fleet, instead of diverting a bit and avoid the threat. Same situation as shown above with scout.

If you watch this, it is so silly you could cry. This is one of the worst problems with this game, it adds nothing to the game, it is just plain silly. And it is possible to script an avoidance of dangers - have a look at a certain mod, which does exactly this. (I did not yet try it, so cannot say for sure if it works, but according to the comments it does).

I have no hopes for the message system. The problem is the amount of information on the screen. It may be possible to design a map display with the messages integrated, but there is not enough space. A new UI with the idea of movable and overlaying windows would maybe help, but this would mean a complete redesign of the UI. Every information block (list of ships, stations and so on in its own window, brought to the foreground or background as needed) and also a scrolling list of messages, where you can scroll back would change it all, but this is not a simple change and won't happen in X4.

The idea of persistent messages is a good idea I think. There may be several cases where this will help. It will not solve the problems described above, but it would help. Especially if you have large groups of ships bound to your stations, and a long list of ships, where you will not easily see a missing ship. The game seems to be optimized for huge amounts of ships (mid/end game), where the player will not care about a destroyed ship. But if you have only a few ships, a loss is significant - and not reported well.

Also it may help, if a configurable Auto Pause system is implemented: Just allow the player to optionally configure certain events to auto Pause the game. This is often done by hand, and hitting the Pause key is often needed. How about the possibility to configure an auto Pause for certain events, for example the unauthorized kills, and so on?

[Socratatus]

Actually it is possible to get an 'alert' if one of your ships is attacked. It is optional, but the pilot will send you a message.

The problem is: While the option is called 'Inform me...' it actually is not only inform it is a request what to do. This is something I had to learn the hard way. So instead of just informing you the pilot calls you and asks what to do. Combined with the inadequacies of the entire message system (messages of every kind work fine, as long as you do not have the map open) this is often fatal, because the pilot actually waits for your decision. In a fight or in the map this can take a few seconds or even longer. And in this time the ship is destroyed. If you do not answer, the configured default is used, but by then it is too late.

Added to this is a new behavior which seems to disable the use of the 'F' key (answering calls) while in the map. This worked with 4.x, and was reported in the Beta. Now you have to leave the map manually, and if you are not fast enough, the call times out.

Combine this with the AIs inability to AVOID dangers. A Scout will happily try to fly THROUGH a Khaak installation while exploring. Which ends fatal obviously. It is pure chance, sometimes the movements of the Scout ship while exploring are not near enough to be attacked, and sometimes the ship simply dies.
'Hey Captain, what is this red thing on our scanners?' - 'No idea, lets have a look' - 'Hey they shoot on us!!' - 'Okay, keep calm and lets call the boss, what to do...' - WHAM...

So the existing option to be informed of attacks is better not used, except with ships which can safely ignore attacks a while anyway - L-ships.

So a pure message would be needed in contrast to the existing 'Inform me...'. Or maybe an acoustic alert, but such an alert can easily be drowned by other sounds.

The message system of X4 is a problem anyway. While the messages on the left hand side are nice, they are going away much too fast. You barely have time to read them, especially if you are focused on other things on screen. And they are simply missing while in the map.

Often while checking my possessions on the map I find a ship missing. After this it is hunting through the message list, where the ship was destroyed and guess what happened.

What we need is an AI, which can be ordered to AVOID dangers, i.e. hostile stations and fleets. A trader will happily deliver wares to a station under attack by a Xenon K, often it can land and do the trade, but after this he will launch, stand near the station and 'look for trades'. Not long, obviously. Or a trader will just blindly follow his path, through a Xenon fleet, instead of diverting a bit and avoid the threat. Same situation as shown above with scout.

If you watch this, it is so silly you could cry. This is one of the worst problems with this game, it adds nothing to the game, it is just plain silly. And it is possible to script an avoidance of dangers - have a look at a certain mod, which does exactly this. (I did not yet try it, so cannot say for sure if it works, but according to the comments it does).

I have no hopes for the message system. The problem is the amount of information on the screen. It may be possible to design a map display with the messages integrated, but there is not enough space. A new UI with the idea of movable and overlaying windows would maybe help, but this would mean a complete redesign of the UI. Every information block (list of ships, stations and so on in its own window, brought to the foreground or background as needed) and also a scrolling list of messages, where you can scroll back would change it all, but this is not a simple change and won't happen in X4.

The idea of persistent messages is a good idea I think. There may be several cases where this will help. It will not solve the problems described above, but it would help. Especially if you have large groups of ships bound to your stations, and a long list of ships, where you will not easily see a missing ship. The game seems to be optimized for huge amounts of ships (mid/end game), where the player will not care about a destroyed ship. But if you have only a few ships, a loss is significant - and not reported well.

Also it may help, if a configurable Auto Pause system is implemented: Just allow the player to optionally configure certain events to auto Pause the game. This is often done by hand, and hitting the Pause key is often needed. How about the possibility to configure an auto Pause for certain events, for example the unauthorized kills, and so on?

I appreciate your input.

I am trying to stay on topic. The point is to have a warning system that stays up until you acknowledge you've seen it by clicking it away.

Yes, you do get warned by your captain of that ship, but sometimes you may be away. The Alert that your ship has been attacked from the captian is short as he has only a limited time to act, so no good if you happen to be away for longer than 5 seconds. But you're going off my topic here.

It's not even about that but being Alerted that your ship has been destroyed and it stays up until I turn it off.

It's that simple. I don't want to confuse and complicate things any further or you definitely won't get the Devs implementing any of it.

Keep It Simple is one of my mottos.

[Good Wizard]

I appreciate your input.

I am trying to stay on topic. The point is to have a warning system that stays up until you acknowledge you've seen it by clicking it away.

Yes, you do get warned by your captain of that ship, but sometimes you may be away. The Alert that your ship has been attacked from the captian is short as he has only a limited time to act, so no good if you happen to be away for longer than 5 seconds. But you're going off my topic here.

It's not even about that but being Alerted that your ship has been destroyed and it stays up until I turn it off.

It's that simple. I don't want to confuse and complicate things any further or you definitely won't get the Devs implementing any of it.

Keep It Simple is one of my mottos.

Sorry - it got a bit out of hand, didn't it?

Your idea of persistent messages is actually good - but I think it is quite hard to implement too. Where would this message sit on the screen? Do you see it in the map or outside of the map? Outside we have the left hand side and the right hand side message locations. It would need to be someplace else, or the messages on the left hand side would be blocked/disturbed, and the messages on the right hand side are reserved for events. calls and so on. All of it strictly temporary, because the are so many messages that they overlap each other even now.

In the map it could be possible, but also would be entirely new, an new area and so on. At the end they will say, that you already have persistent messages in form of the message list, but a series of clicks is needed to go there. Maybe a fixed filter for destroyed ships in this list (instead of typing a search phrase) would help. A separate list for lost property, or something like that would also help.

[af_2017]

It would need to be optional or else it would break the game once you have large empire to have that stuff popping up every time one of your random ships takes a stray shot.

Optional per ship. Or even better the same as trade rules, that is, inherited from fleet commander/station manager.

[oddible]

So tell me this. What are you going to do about it if a ship gets destroyed? Why is it so critically time sensitive that you need an interruptive message like that? Honestly there is already a bright red message in the lower left, and a message in your Log. Are you saying you don't periodically look at your logs to see any critical stuff going on in your empire? Just do that

Nothing in this game is so time critical that you need that level of interaction - especially a ship death. What are you going to do... build another one to replace it. Not super time critical.

The things that ARE time critical that need immediate interaction are engagements - when your ship gets engaged with something that is going to cause its death. We currently have a louder and more present message for a ship being destroyed than we do for a ship being attacked. When you can still do something about it.

[thijso]

So tell me this. What are you going to do about it if a ship gets destroyed? Why is it so critically time sensitive that you need an interruptive message like that? Honestly there is already a bright red message in the lower left, and a message in your Log. Are you saying you don't periodically look at your logs to see any critical stuff going on in your empire? Just do that

It might help if you actually read what the OP said:

I'm not against when attacked, but I certainly want to know that my Freighter has been destroyed as soon as I return to my pc. You can end up playing for a while before you realise it's gone otherwise. Knowing it was destroyed and the Notice staying on screen until you ackowledge it is REALLY important . That's the whole point of my post.

The point is (probably), if you know immediately when you return from AFK you can then decide to go back to a savegame or continue.

[Stein_backstabber]

I work around this using the logbook. Tab "all" And search for "yed by".

All destroyed ships will pop into this filter. It's not a notification as such, but it's an easy way to scan. What it WONT tell you, is who that ship belonged to, or what it was doing.

[Socratatus]

So tell me this. What are you going to do about it if a ship gets destroyed? Why is it so critically time sensitive that you need an interruptive message like that? Honestly there is already a bright red message in the lower left, and a message in your Log. Are you saying you don't periodically look at your logs to see any critical stuff going on in your empire? Just do that

I would have answered sooner had i realised there were more messages asking a question.

Consider that not everyone is like you, not everyone does as you because you do. Also please read and take in what I wrote rather than skim then responding to what you think I said. My reasons are clear and you could figure it out if you weren't so intent on pushing your view in my thread:

1. Sometimes we go away and return and continue with the game, not realising we've lost a ship, wasting time until we realise.

2. The message alert on the lower left lasts for only a short amount of time and can be easily missed if busy in game or away from game for a moment.

3. Believe it or not I do not periodically look at the log. And I cannot be expected to look at the log for every very-important (like losing a ship and crew) event that happens in a timely manner. There is a reason why in reality we have advisers and messengers and even friends that ALERT us immediately when an important event happens- and they don't stop until we acknowledge it. This allows us to act as soon as possible rather than later when we maybe go and check the log late.

[Drumma]

I definitely agree with this suggestion.

I also want a big message pop up when alerts for "We need immediate assistance" occurs.
(I know a small indicator comes up on screen and in the objects menu but this is fleeting and hard to recognize unless I'm looking right at it at the exact time it hits)
This would help me to possibly do something for my ships in distress when they need it. Have I overlooked these settings ?

Also, can I increase the font size of messages that come up at the bottom of the screen and increase its visibility time AND is there a log of these messages I can open a review ? (like the big log for transactions)

[I'd like to be able to move the ship info displayed at the bottom of the screen too]

Sorry if these are already posted ... I started typing this before others commented.

[Socratatus]

I definitely agree with this suggestion.

I also want a big message pop up when alerts for "We need immediate assistance" occurs.
(I know a small indicator comes up on screen and in the objects menu but this is fleeting and hard to recognize unless I'm looking right at it at the exact time it hits)
This would help me to possibly do something for my ships in distress when they need it. Have I overlooked these settings ?

Also, can I increase the font size of messages that come up at the bottom of the screen and increase its visibility time AND is there a log of these messages I can open a review ? (like the big log for transactions)

[I'd like to be able to move the ship info displayed at the bottom of the screen too]

Sorry if these are already posted ... I started typing this before others commented.

Agreed.

[oddible]

I also want a big message pop up when alerts for "We need immediate assistance" occurs.
(I know a small indicator comes up on screen and in the objects menu but this is fleeting and hard to recognize unless I'm looking right at it at the exact time it hits)
This would help me to possibly do something for my ships in distress when they need it. Have I overlooked these settings ?

Yeah this is my issue. Ship destroyed is too late to do anything except build another ship to replace it. I can get that info out of the log which I can check periodically. Time sensitive events where something is actually happening NOW, IMMEDIATELY, and I can do something about it - that needs some pretty interruptive messaging.

Consider that not everyone is like you, not everyone does as you because you do. Also please read and take in what I wrote rather than skim then responding to what you think I said. My reasons are clear and you could figure it out if you weren't so intent on pushing your view in my thread:

Weirdly defensive and projecting but ok. I read clearly what you said (in fact this was like my 3rd reply). If your reasons were clear I wouldn't have asked. I asked because I recognize that this is a diverse game with diverse players and I want to better understand their motivations and how the existing systems do or don't satisfy their needs - to know how to respond to their posts. You got triggered, that's ok, happens to me all the time, we're all just chatting here.

1. Sometimes we go away and return and continue with the game, not realising we've lost a ship, wasting time until we realise.

2. The message alert on the lower left lasts for only a short amount of time and can be easily missed if busy in game or away from game for a moment.

3. Believe it or not I do not periodically look at the log. And I cannot be expected to look at the log for every very-important (like losing a ship and crew) event that happens in a timely manner. There is a reason why in reality we have advisers and messengers and even friends that ALERT us immediately when an important event happens- and they don't stop until we acknowledge it. This allows us to act as soon as possible rather than later when we maybe go and check the log late.

Yeah this is why I was asking. Because there are often tools in the game that allow players to get what they want without having to code something new. For instance, if a player goes away from the game and comes back - probably a really good idea to check the logs anyway. It is all there in black and white for you to get a quick picture of what's been going on.

Agreed the message alert in the lower left disappears very quickly - it also goes to the log. It would be good if critical messages that come up do some sort of flag like the email system in game. When you get an email it puts a little icon so you know to check your email. Maybe when you get a critical event like a ship being destroyed it would show another icon that indicates to go check the log - with a mark as read option.

The worst messages in game are the ones that are actually voice videos in the lower right that can get blocked out or cancelled by other events so you never even get those messages - these don't even appear in the log!