Employee of the month, Feb 825

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dtpsprt
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Re: Employee of the month, Feb 825

Post by dtpsprt » Wed, 25. May 22, 02:12

GCU Grey Area wrote:
Tue, 24. May 22, 20:36
dtpsprt wrote:
Tue, 24. May 22, 12:50
You mean 4 game days? That is 96 hours of game playing which means a month plus at it... It can be done, yes but, again, have in mind that new players may blunder about and, again that most people puting this kind of posts are new (or relatively new) to the game. There is also the fact that some people just want a "steady" amount of money, nothing special, so they can keep on exploring and fighting...
Yes, 4 days with a very slow, relaxed & laid back approach to the game, mostly doing generic & guild missions to raise cash; sometimes doing the early parts (i.e. the cheap bits) of some of the plots to pass the time while my freighters gather resources in the background & production modules are built at HQ. Absolutely certain there are far more efficient ways of raising the cash, gathering resources, etc, which would enable a more impatient player to do get their training facilities up & running considerably faster than 4 days. However that's just not the way I like to play. X4 is not a game I like to rush.
dtpsprt wrote:
Tue, 24. May 22, 08:28
The L Liquid storage is needed for Methane in the Terraforming process, it can be "hacked" but there are not many of it's kind around...
No need to do anything at all with methane in order to build the training facilities. Methane is only needed for the biosphere projects, none of which are pre-requisites for marine/pilot training. As long as you don't pick one of the harder planets (e.g. where toxic cleanup is required) the ONLY other thing needed is a bubble city to provide planet-side habitation. Incidentally can recommend Black Hole Sun as a good choice for this. That's where my HQ is located in my current game. Have not done any of the biosphere projects yet, however on day 5 already have several hundred well trained marines & pilots (got considerably more of them than I have ships for them to fly).
As for the price of the blueprint you are correct but it gets up to that amount (200 mill) with the necessary wares to build along with Habitats and Storage... Then, not mentioned, is the cost of getting the High Mass Teleportation researched...
Build cost of an S/M fabrication bay is around 5 million (at average prices), L storage modules are around 300k each, while S habitation modules are around 400k or so. Still no idea where you're getting that 200 million number from. Suspect you just made it up. Anyway by that point in the game I usually have my own production of basic construction materials setup so it's more of an opportunity cost to use them to construct the S/M bay, rather than something I'll have to pay for. Incidentally the introduction in ToA of recycling facilities to make hull parts & claytronics from scrap (i.e. without needing the lower tier production chains) has proved really quite useful in my current game.

Frankly not sure why you spread so much misinformation about this. You seem to be dead set on discouraging people from exploring this aspect of the game, when it has proved to be an incredibly beneficial thing to do early on in my past couple of games. Makes a world of difference, for example, to be able to do boarding ops with 4-5* marines, rather than relying on the untrained 0-1* idiots that can be bought from a shipyard.
4 in game days of being a manager? Not my cup of tea for sure and these costs you put are good with a lot if infrastructure to support the build of the Wharf (as you say so yourself). My point is that not everybody wants to be a builder/manager/tycoon. There are people who prefer the explorer/wanderer/warrior path... It's supposed to be a sandbox and it ends up being Space Monopoly....

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Re: Employee of the month, Feb 825

Post by GCU Grey Area » Wed, 25. May 22, 08:40

dtpsprt wrote:
Wed, 25. May 22, 02:12
4 in game days of being a manager?
Nope, quite the opposite. The primary reason I use missions to generate my early game cash is that I want to spend the bulk of my time flying around doing stuff, rather than say managing an exponentially expanding fleet of auto-miners, even though the latter approach may well generate cash a lot faster. In the early game prefer to keep the number of ships & stations I own to a minimum. During those first few days often all I've got is my HQ, a bunch of ships to fetch stuff for it & a few ships to fly personally. This for example is everything I owned about 3½ days into my current game: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fzfq70inoqnc9 ... 1.jpg?dl=0. Very little management required.

jlehtone
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Re: Employee of the month, Feb 825

Post by jlehtone » Wed, 25. May 22, 17:26

dtpsprt wrote:
Wed, 25. May 22, 02:05
jlehtone wrote:
Tue, 24. May 22, 22:57
dtpsprt wrote:
Tue, 24. May 22, 12:50
You mean 4 game days? That is 96 hours of game playing which means a month plus at it...
Thinking more about this, I'm confused. Do you feel that four ingame days it a long or short time? (Personally, I spend closer to three months to advance four days ingame.)
I definitely find it a long and ardous time. And I'm extimating in real ime with 4 hours average per day (3 plus change playing and about 1 loading - saving - reloading)... Sounds like a full time job doesn't it? If you cut it in half then you have your three months....
You went on tangent that terraforming tools that allow training crews are for "late game" and "too late" for players that (apparently) want automated income as by "late game" there is no longer need.

GCU claimed (and proved) that one can get those training facilities "early" and without serious focus nonetheless. Now you imply that four ingame days is an eternity, especially if one just wants to "fly around", i.e. "very late in the game". Sounds plausible, if one plays a whole (real life) week before next restart. Overall, is X4 the right game, if you want it all and want it now?
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Re: Employee of the month, Feb 825

Post by Admiral Sausage » Wed, 25. May 22, 21:53

jlehtone wrote:
Tue, 24. May 22, 22:57
Admiral Sausage wrote:
Tue, 24. May 22, 18:33
jlehtone wrote:
Tue, 24. May 22, 17:59
Does Zera Poler wear ToA fashion? Born with it?
She would have been part of a bulk purchase of marines from one of the ToA factions, I don't remember which. So she came with her one outfit that she lives in, including the convenient carrying handle on the side.
In other words, her career has not taken many months in real life, since ToA has not been out long.
I didn't say or try to imply that it took months. ToA has bee out for a couple of months now. I've been playing it for a bit over one month, which is more time on just ToA than I spend on most games in their entirety.

dtpsprt
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Re: Employee of the month, Feb 825

Post by dtpsprt » Wed, 25. May 22, 22:15

jlehtone wrote:
Wed, 25. May 22, 17:26
.................

You went on tangent that terraforming tools that allow training crews are for "late game" and "too late" for players that (apparently) want automated income as by "late game" there is no longer need.

GCU claimed (and proved) that one can get those training facilities "early" and without serious focus nonetheless. Now you imply that four ingame days is an eternity, especially if one just wants to "fly around", i.e. "very late in the game". Sounds plausible, if one plays a whole (real life) week before next restart. Overall, is X4 the right game, if you want it all and want it now?
Now I think that you are mistaking automated income with billions like income. People who love exploring, flying and fighting their own ship don't care about billions (or even millions for that matter), as long as they can do what they like most (definition of sandbox). Just enough money to buy a better ship when things go tough, equip it and maintain it. That's about what an M Autotrader would bring in, something less than a million per hour. To do that you need a 4* Captain (!!!) how can you get him/her? With the exception of the Fires of Defeat gamestart it's practically impossible, unless you stop doing what you like and start puting enough fighters in the meatgrinder, observe them closely to replenish their losses (btw you'll have to do this keeping an eye on what's happening to them and any other moneymaking activity you engage to do just that) and keep praying that there is one survivor from the beginning of this futile excersise. Time (real days) passes and you are still at it... what are you playing for?

Of course this is not everyone's cup of tea but neither is the opposite that is happening ever since V3.00...

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Re: Employee of the month, Feb 825

Post by jlehtone » Wed, 25. May 22, 23:07

dtpsprt wrote:
Wed, 25. May 22, 22:15
Now I think that you are mistaking automated income with billions like income. People who love exploring, flying and fighting their own ship don't care about billions (or even millions for that matter), as long as they can do what they like most (definition of sandbox). Just enough money to buy a better ship when things go tough, equip it and maintain it. That's about what an M Autotrader would bring in, something less than a million per hour. To do that you need a 4* Captain (!!!) how can you get him/her?
I don't seem to be mistaken. Just flying around, not getting money from what you discover by exploration, not gaining finacially from "a fight", not trading themselves, nor building? Not gaining reputation, access to Guilds, nor to Guild missions that do yield 2* and 3* Seminars with relative ease? Just want "a little" automatic income practically from start?

I've never had a 4* on a freighter. I might have one or two 4* captains total as those Seminars from missions are not extremely rare.
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Re: Employee of the month, Feb 825

Post by dtpsprt » Thu, 26. May 22, 07:42

jlehtone wrote:
Wed, 25. May 22, 23:07
dtpsprt wrote:
Wed, 25. May 22, 22:15
Now I think that you are mistaking automated income with billions like income. People who love exploring, flying and fighting their own ship don't care about billions (or even millions for that matter), as long as they can do what they like most (definition of sandbox). Just enough money to buy a better ship when things go tough, equip it and maintain it. That's about what an M Autotrader would bring in, something less than a million per hour. To do that you need a 4* Captain (!!!) how can you get him/her?
I don't seem to be mistaken. Just flying around, not getting money from what you discover by exploration, not gaining finacially from "a fight", not trading themselves, nor building? Not gaining reputation, access to Guilds, nor to Guild missions that do yield 2* and 3* Seminars with relative ease? Just want "a little" automatic income practically from start?

I've never had a 4* on a freighter. I might have one or two 4* captains total as those Seminars from missions are not extremely rare.
That's a bit on the side of the extreme not to mention the absurd, don't you think?

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Re: Employee of the month, Feb 825

Post by cale_online » Thu, 26. May 22, 09:20

I have so many contenders for Employee of the Month.

We've got the numerous pilots who I ask to fly me to a station, and dock so I can do some business, then I return to the docking area to find they've flown off without me, again.

The captain of my newest destroyer, ordered to fly to my location at great haste, only to decide to swing by a Xenon defence platform and get destroyed.

My Nividium mining fleet, that despite my best efforts, can not fathom how to sell their nividium to the trading station next door, let alone the ones 2-3 jumps away, so aimlessly wander around the asteroid belt complaining until I manually order each one to sell and return to work.

Or my old friend, HMS KABOOM, the destroyer, ordered to flee from hostile territory that it wandered in to for no apparent reason, and no only fled the wrong way, but made sure to swing by my boarding target and literally nuke it with torpedoes before continuing to flee.

😂

So basically I'm awarding myself employee of the month because I basically do everything myself.

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Re: Employee of the month, Feb 825

Post by jlehtone » Fri, 27. May 22, 17:54

dtpsprt wrote:
Thu, 26. May 22, 07:42
That's a bit on the side of the extreme not to mention the absurd, don't you think?
Indeed, but which part?
The assumption that some love to play with such extreme minimalism that their actions do not provide the little credits that their playstyle requires
or
the expectation that game should particularly support such style?
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Re: Employee of the month, Feb 825

Post by spankahontis » Fri, 27. May 22, 18:57

oddible wrote:
Tue, 24. May 22, 20:12
This is awesome, I love doing this. People who just want instant 5-star everything are missing out on a great feature of the game. As someone who has managed a lot of people in my life I can tell you that I've never worked with a 5 star person, ever, I'm certainly not one. I've seen them, gone to talks by them, but never worked with them. Even a 4-star person IRL is a unicorn. There are more 3-stars around but they're pretty rare as well. Most of us sit in the 2-star range and will most of our lives with a few glorious moments or projects where we peak in the 3-star range.

Absolutely True, it's like my Tuesday Night Pub Pool League, I'm the worst player on the team (1 Star skill) playing other teams and people that get paid thousands to play pool professionally (3-4 Star Players), I've seen people clean the table on the break, (5 Star performances), only to have a (2 Star) nightmare performance the next game.
I love the challenge, even if it means I get 7 balled, most nights, I practice, I get better and I enjoy the ride.

But it's great to see the talent, to see how they do shots that I can only wish to do as good as them and strive to grow and raise my potential as well.
Plus the Team work has given us great bonds; no I in team! :D
Ragna-Tech.. Forging a Better Tomorrow!

My most annoying Bugs list 6.0 Beta 4 + [All DLC]
--------------------------------
Nvidium Worshop Animation Enlarge Broken :(
Building Modules causes low frame rate :o
Massive Framerate drops freezing game! :doh:
Save Corrupted Fixed the Crash! :-D

dtpsprt
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Re: Employee of the month, Feb 825

Post by dtpsprt » Fri, 27. May 22, 19:49

jlehtone wrote:
Fri, 27. May 22, 17:54
dtpsprt wrote:
Thu, 26. May 22, 07:42
That's a bit on the side of the extreme not to mention the absurd, don't you think?
Indeed, but which part?
The assumption that some love to play with such extreme minimalism that their actions do not provide the little credits that their playstyle requires
or
the expectation that game should particularly support such style?
I'd say both... To begin with the game is listed as sandbox. This means that it can (and will) support different if not all types of gameplay. Truth is it doesn't... and even if a player is having the least impact and interaction with the game's universe again is forced to certain (very few) gamestyles the moment an upgrade is needed for his/her game. Wouldn't you agree that there has been a lot of "nerfing" since the game was first presented? And mind you, if a player wants to absolutely wreck their game and their Universe's economy it's still theirs and does not affect (and can not affect) other people's game right?
Each and every nerf constricts the ways any player can/may play and drives the game out of the sandbox premise. In fact some might even accuse (even legaly in some countries) Egosoft of intentionally misleading the buyers by promishing a "sandbox" and not delivering it...

BTW, what's with the Teuta? Why is Recycling included in the base game and the Teuta (able to recylce L, XL and generally big wrecks) is not? Why only one of the main game sectors had it's sun energy changed? This is akeen to dangling a carrot in front of the players (recycling) and then having them to fork out to buy the new DLC to actually utilise it... Just like in-game microtransactions, no actual difference of intent... Recycling should be either in the main game (all of it, let the Teladi or ALI ask rep+20 and 50 mil for the blueprint no matter), or in the DLC. Nott half here and the other half there...

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Re: Employee of the month, Feb 825

Post by GCU Grey Area » Fri, 27. May 22, 21:38

dtpsprt wrote:
Fri, 27. May 22, 19:49
BTW, what's with the Teuta? Why is Recycling included in the base game and the Teuta (able to recylce L, XL and generally big wrecks) is not? Why only one of the main game sectors had it's sun energy changed? This is akeen to dangling a carrot in front of the players (recycling) and then having them to fork out to buy the new DLC to actually utilise it... Just like in-game microtransactions, no actual difference of intent... Recycling should be either in the main game (all of it, let the Teladi or ALI ask rep+20 and 50 mil for the blueprint no matter), or in the DLC. Nott half here and the other half there...
Teuta's not essential. Went the scrap route for my early game hull parts & claytronics production in my current game. Built 1x scrap processor & 2x recyclers on my HQ. They've been working absolutely fine with just Manticores delivering the scrap. There's more than enough S/M wrecks around to keep my recycling modules in continuous operation. As for solar energy requirements, it still works absolutely fine even in a sector with a standard 100% sun (e.g. Black Hole Sun IV). Just need a few more solar panels than you might need elsewhere & they're not exactly the most expensive things to build (around 740k each at average prices). Got the DLC but so far have not needed either the Teuta or the increased solar output of the new sectors (or Bright Promise for that matter). The scrap mechanic however has been exceptionally useful as a low cost, early game method of jumping straight to hull parts & claytronics production without needing any of the lower tier production modules in either chain, or the miners needed to supply them.

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Re: Employee of the month, Feb 825

Post by oddible » Fri, 27. May 22, 22:39

dtpsprt wrote:
Fri, 27. May 22, 19:49
jlehtone wrote:
Fri, 27. May 22, 17:54
dtpsprt wrote:
Thu, 26. May 22, 07:42
That's a bit on the side of the extreme not to mention the absurd, don't you think?
Indeed, but which part?
The assumption that some love to play with such extreme minimalism that their actions do not provide the little credits that their playstyle requires
or
the expectation that game should particularly support such style?
I'd say both... To begin with the game is listed as sandbox. This means that it can (and will) support different if not all types of gameplay. Truth is it doesn't... and even if a player is having the least impact and interaction with the game's universe again is forced to certain (very few) gamestyles the moment an upgrade is needed for his/her game. Wouldn't you agree that there has been a lot of "nerfing" since the game was first presented? And mind you, if a player wants to absolutely wreck their game and their Universe's economy it's still theirs and does not affect (and can not affect) other people's game right?
Each and every nerf constricts the ways any player can/may play and drives the game out of the sandbox premise. In fact some might even accuse (even legaly in some countries) Egosoft of intentionally misleading the buyers by promishing a "sandbox" and not delivering it...

BTW, what's with the Teuta? Why is Recycling included in the base game and the Teuta (able to recylce L, XL and generally big wrecks) is not? Why only one of the main game sectors had it's sun energy changed? This is akeen to dangling a carrot in front of the players (recycling) and then having them to fork out to buy the new DLC to actually utilise it... Just like in-game microtransactions, no actual difference of intent... Recycling should be either in the main game (all of it, let the Teladi or ALI ask rep+20 and 50 mil for the blueprint no matter), or in the DLC. Nott half here and the other half there...
I honestly have no idea what you're going on about at this point. You earlier made some ridiculous claim that you need 4* pilots (I almost never have 4 star pilots in anything, I'm several game days into my current game without a single 4* pilot and maybe only four 3* pilots). So no, I think you're being absurd. If you don't want to manage an economic empire, put a handful of auto miners in a few core sectors with 1* pilots if you want some passive income. If you don't want passive income, don't! It's your game. Play how you want.

To make the claim that this is a sandbox so there should be zero rules and infinite everything is just silly. Wittgenstein defined a game by having "rules". Callois also included "rules" in the definition of a game. Rules by definition mean that you CANNOT do everything = no game will support "all types of gameplay". The suggestion that ANY sandbox game supports all types of gameplay is woefully ignorant. Even a "sandbox" only offers 4 walls and a pile of sand. You can make anything you want in that sandbox but it can only be made of sand. The only things you can do in a sandbox are making things from sand or do things with what objects are in that sandbox for you to manipulate. So no, by definition a "sandbox" absolutely does NOT mean that it can and will support ALL types of gameplay.

If we continue with definitions, Crawford made the claim that furthermore in order to be a "game" it needs to have goals - without goals it is just a "toy". This notion of a "goal" also sets up another premise of games, that there should be challenge. Challenge / goals are something that needs to be overcome. In X games one of the challenges is how to make money.

There are a LOT of ways to make money in X4 and not one of them require a 4* pilot. Yes there has been nerfing, they nerfed the hell out of the Xenon because people whined about how difficult they were - now they're a pushover that is only a mild inconvenience. As far as Egosoft misleading buyers, the only "some" who might argue that are children without a hint of the definition of sandbox games or the law.

And then more weird distracted rant about the Teuta. At least this one is more grounded and less unhinged.

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