L Gaz miners

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aaphebus
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L Gaz miners

Post by aaphebus » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 11:39

Hello,

I come back to X4 for a new run.
In the past I read there were some problems with gaz miners, for methan and helium. I had now problem at all during my last game few monts ago. But today, it seems that L gaz miner can't take more than few tens of each and mine for age with no incresing amount at all. I also read that something has changed in the way theses ressources are managed. So am I doing something wrong? I simply buit Graphen and Supercoolant stations and assign 4 to 6 L miners each, and still have produced nothing because of no ressource income.
I have no problem with hydrogen though.
Thanks for your help

magitsu
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Re: L Gaz miners

Post by magitsu » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 14:11

Not enough information.
For example where is the nearest Methane is located in relation to your Graphene station. Is it near enough for the station manager's skill level. Is it trying to go to The Void (special case)...
Start from double checking that there's liquid storage (and space in it, it could be filled with other gas if you are running a mixed products station) , L docks, and purchase order for the trade good. Then check that your L's have mining drones...

aaphebus
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Re: L Gaz miners

Post by aaphebus » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 14:36

Thanks
But like I wrote I explained I started a new game, I have more than 1000 hours in the game and it's my fith start right now. I've played before and was able to produce graphene and stuff by mining methan and other gaz.
Right now I settled in Frontier Edge near Antigone, there should be Methan there and Helium in Antigone Memorial.
And like I wrote my L Miners just stay there mining a few 150 unities of each gaz and then nothing. Probe ressources are set, drone are equiped, every thing is right where it should be, and like I wrote Hydrogen works fine, so why only methan and helium.
My question is : is there something that has changed in the game that makes theses two gaz so hard to recolt.
I can't find a reason why this is happening, and can't find a solution. Right now my game has running four hours and nothing has changed. I'm really sad right now since I can't even produce basic materials.
too bad.

Imperial Good
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Re: L Gaz miners

Post by Imperial Good » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 14:52

Sounds like there is not enough of the gas known in the region for the station to mine. It mines fast then depletes the local area so mines at the regeneration rate. As the yield is probably quite low the regeneration rate is quite low.

Try mining methane in a sector like Eighteen Billion after exploring the cloud fully.

aaphebus
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Re: L Gaz miners

Post by aaphebus » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 14:57

Thanks,
I will try that.
Seems your explanation is the right one. I am checking right now the probe ressources and the gaz seems to be depleted quickly like you said.
Too bad Eighteen Billion is on the opposite way of my actual position. Maybe I'll try to construct station there and transport graphen by cargo.

magitsu
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Re: L Gaz miners

Post by magitsu » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 16:13

Any of these can be used to quickly test if it works.
High methane sectors: Trinity Sanctum VII, Pious Mists IV, Eighteen Billion, Family Zhin.
The Void is the absolute best, but miners need to be already there to get it working because otherwise they'll automatically avoid going there it due to the hazardous area (which is no danger to ship with L shields).

Gas miner with at least some mining drones. Full service crew increases mining speed.

aaphebus
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Re: L Gaz miners

Post by aaphebus » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 16:20

Unfortunately, miners continue to mine where the gaz is totally depleted. Even with ressource prob in Eighteen Billion.
Also found a nice Methane reserve near Sature, using a ressource probe there, and the miner stay where it's depleted, dancing around doing nothing. That's depressing.
Wanted to have good time with X4 like I had before, but it seems many things (too many) have changed with the ressources.
I wanted to try terraforming but without cheating, I will need many years real time to accomplish this task.
Really I don't understand. I give up. Sorry. Maybe will try again when a new update will show up.

magitsu
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Re: L Gaz miners

Post by magitsu » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 16:25

Like you can see here, random sectors contain barely any methane (1 = less than 80,000 methane total).
https://www.qsna.eu/x4/resources/

aaphebus
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Re: L Gaz miners

Post by aaphebus » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 16:39

magitsu wrote:
Sat, 30. Jul 22, 16:25
Like you can see here, random sectors contain barely any methane (1 = less than 80,000 methane total).
If you read the ressource probe, it seems to tell us there is a lot of Methane,for example I'm right now in Oort Cloud, ressource probe tells me 0.22 / Km3 (Max 0,24) with 2,5 stars
In the Void it tells 0.0016 (Max 0.0018) with no star.

So I would think Oort is a better place to mine methane than the Void and this map says the contrary.
I'm totally lost right now :? :?

Thanks by the way

magitsu
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Re: L Gaz miners

Post by magitsu » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 16:51

Oort should have enough to be worth collecting. Eighteen, Void etc. are just more common since they are more centered around the map.
Tbh that table and this other map's info conflict quite a bit:
https://roguey.co.uk/x4/universe/ (this one says MedHigh for Methane in Oort)

Technically they are probably both true, Void likely just has massive amount of Methane in total (and Mercury Helium) while some other like Oort can still have good density in few specific spots.
Last edited by magitsu on Sat, 30. Jul 22, 17:02, edited 2 times in total.

aaphebus
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Re: L Gaz miners

Post by aaphebus » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 16:57

magitsu wrote:
Sat, 30. Jul 22, 16:51
Tbh that table and this other map's info conflict quite a bit:
https://roguey.co.uk/x4/universe/ (this one says MedHigh for Methane in Oort)
Thank's for your kind help magitsu.
My concern right now is that the ships aren't going there.
They are still stalling into Frontier Edge where my station is. There is some methane here but the reserv is so quickly depleted that they recolt nearly nothing.
I've positionned probe ressources where I want them to mine but they simply don't go there and stay where gaz is depleted, that's insane, I've never experienced that before.

Now I'm trying to experiment with "expert miner" and see if this work. But clearly the automatism with the station is broke, at least in my game.
:evil:

magitsu
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Re: L Gaz miners

Post by magitsu » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 17:01

I just tested it with a custom start. I placed L Liquid + docks station in The Void, with Wyvern (Gas) with a captain and full set of elite crewmen (and 6 mining drones). Then I assigned the ship with "mine for commander" order to the station. In the Logical Overview of the station I pressed Select Trade Wares and made a Buy order for Methane and dumped some money to the station account. When I looked back 5 minutes later the Wyvern was 21996/22000, which was 3,666 Methane. I didn't use a resource probe, so it's not needed.
In a normal save with rookie crew it should take maybe 15-20 minutes, but should work similarly.
Last edited by magitsu on Sat, 30. Jul 22, 17:08, edited 2 times in total.

aaphebus
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Re: L Gaz miners

Post by aaphebus » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 17:07

magitsu wrote:
Sat, 30. Jul 22, 17:01
Try without assigning it at all to a station, with sector automine to the ship which is already in the sector which it's supposed to be in.
Thanks, That's what I'm trying right now, with a max sell distance to 0 it should come back and sell to the station. I hope so :)

magitsu
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Re: L Gaz miners

Post by magitsu » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 17:08

By the way, if you are in Frontier Edge, it's probably due to The Void. The AI is not allowed to traverse/have jobs there it unless it's already there when you assign the job. Because of the dangerous radiation damage mechanism in the Void. So it could be the reason why your station assigned ships aren't travelling. Because both directions are disallowed (Atiyas XEN if you disallowed travel to enemy sectors).

aaphebus
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Re: L Gaz miners

Post by aaphebus » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 17:12

No I assure you ships are travelling through the Void, not working there but travelling there is no probelm.
Again what surpises me is that assigning ships to a station for hydrogen works perfectly.. I can see the ships right now filling my station with Hydrogen and going back to pump some more.
So why only Methane and Helium... That's the real question :?: :!: :?

magitsu
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Re: L Gaz miners

Post by magitsu » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 17:14

Since it works for me, I can't do anything more.
If you want, you can upload the save to google drive and paste the address here.

aaphebus
Posts: 26
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Re: L Gaz miners

Post by aaphebus » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 17:18

magitsu wrote:
Sat, 30. Jul 22, 17:14
If you want, you can upload the save to google drive and paste the address here.
Unfortunately I use some QoL mods so I don't think my save will be taken into account, but thanks anyway.

I really think there is a problem in my game right now, maybe with RNG at start, because even sending manually miners where there should be a lot of methane does nothing at all.
Ship mines 10 to 100 units of gaz and stop
I will take a break but thanks.

Imperial Good
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Re: L Gaz miners

Post by Imperial Good » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 20:38

Resource yields do not depend on RNG. They are fixed for consistency between playthroughs.

Make sure you are using 5.10, the latest release. Older versions did have issues with miners fixating at depleted spots but these generally seem to have been fixed.

It is possible some of your mods are breaking the "fixed" scripts from the newer versions. Especially mods that have not been updated recently or which were updated last during versions which had mining related bugs. I recommend trying a not modified playthrough to see if it has the same issue. As long as the client loads not modified you can use the creative start to get you some starting gas mining ships and even gas processing stations to verify this.

aaphebus
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Re: L Gaz miners

Post by aaphebus » Sat, 30. Jul 22, 23:21

Didn't know ressources were fixed once for all.
So no doubt something is broken in my save.
I will try as you say, new game, no mod.

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