Anyway to stop the Xenon cheating?

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Imperial Good
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Re: Anyway to stop the Xenon cheating?

Post by Imperial Good » Sun, 7. Aug 22, 10:45

Duncaroos wrote:
Sat, 6. Aug 22, 23:12
Is the issue you see because there's no energy cells or something? I would think that being terraformering replicating AI, Xenon only need base materials to make whatever they want.
They might have sacrificed all but 3 of their solar power stations but they still produce significant numbers of energy cells. Their Matrix #9 fleet is constantly replenished if destroyed and consists of 3 Destroyer Is and 16+ Destroyer Ks as well as fighter death fleet.

Just they do not bother to send any of those Energy Cells to the construction sites in Fires of Defeat next door... Or even bother to use their matrix #9 fleet to save Matrix #451 next door many days earlier...

I suspect eventually some Energy Cells might arrive, but it is also entirely possible they will be so busy rebuilding every little loss they suffer... Only time will tell so maybe in another 8+ hours of playing...

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Re: Anyway to stop the Xenon cheating?

Post by jlehtone » Sun, 7. Aug 22, 12:17

Imperial Good wrote:
Sun, 7. Aug 22, 10:45
The Matrix #9 fleet is constantly replenished if destroyed ...
That clearly shows that there are both resources (SPP and mineral fields) and logistics (XEN Miner S and XEN Energy S ships).

We can ask: Are all those XEN Energy S ships set to serve only the yards (that is, separate jobs for station and build supply), or do the yards simply have much higher priority than build sites?

How can we answer that question?
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Hangar181
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Re: Anyway to stop the Xenon cheating?

Post by Hangar181 » Sun, 7. Aug 22, 12:24

This is gold, thank you again for all the advice. I tried a fleet attack combo of 45 Ares with mortars and 30 Chimeras with Thermal Detonators against a Xenon Defence platform with the great tip of "Disable" in attack instructions and only lost 1 fighter. I tried the same thing again and wouldve probably worked too had one of my destroyers parked well out of range not decided to be a hero and dash in not only killing himself but bringing out every fighter an his dog. Oh well next time destroyers can wait in another sector just to be safe. Out of interest is there anyway to "repair all" when I send my fighters back to the carrier. I can onyl see how to do it one at a time which is painful.

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Re: Anyway to stop the Xenon cheating?

Post by Imperial Good » Sun, 7. Aug 22, 12:56

jlehtone wrote:
Sun, 7. Aug 22, 12:17
We can ask: Are all those XEN Energy S ships set to serve only the yards (that is, separate jobs for station and build supply), or do the yards simply have much higher priority than build sites?
The name of the ship does not matter. A XEN S is a XEN S and I have seen Energy Distribution S mining as well as Mining S distributing Energy Cells.

Their yards will certainly have priority due to being closer than the station construction sites. At least if they use regular trade logic. I would hope the NPCs have more special trade logic letting them prioritise construction sites based on overall faction goals.
Hangar181 wrote:
Sun, 7. Aug 22, 12:24
Out of interest is there anyway to "repair all" when I send my fighters back to the carrier.
Carrier subordinates will automatically repair themselves on docking as long as their resupply setting is set to some level. Resupply setting might need to be explicitly set for the commanding carrier so their subordinates inherit an enabled value. Setting it to high should assure that practically every ding they get is repaired on docking. If you are using your fighters outside a carrier you can still assign them as subordinates to one just for the automatic repair.

Resupply ships assigned to resupply a fleet will also repair all members of that fleet, including L and XL. Again a resupply level must be selected (preferably high) for this to work.

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Re: Anyway to stop the Xenon cheating?

Post by jlehtone » Sun, 7. Aug 22, 14:51

Imperial Good wrote:
Sun, 7. Aug 22, 12:56
Their yards will certainly have priority due to being closer than the station construction sites. At least if they use regular trade logic. I would hope the NPCs have more special trade logic letting them prioritise construction sites based on overall faction goals.
Indeed.

Therefore, the vanilla method to inspire Xenon to build is to keep their ships alive long enough for trade logic to spot the build sites? :roll:

Back in 3.xx the S did dash to new build sites. Perhaps they were tuned to be more cautious, since such reckless forays into contested space did take a heavy toll from their numbers and did starve their homes?
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Re: Anyway to stop the Xenon cheating?

Post by csaba » Sun, 7. Aug 22, 22:51

Imperial Good wrote:
Sun, 7. Aug 22, 10:45
Duncaroos wrote:
Sat, 6. Aug 22, 23:12
Is the issue you see because there's no energy cells or something? I would think that being terraformering replicating AI, Xenon only need base materials to make whatever they want.
They might have sacrificed all but 3 of their solar power stations but they still produce significant numbers of energy cells. Their Matrix #9 fleet is constantly replenished if destroyed and consists of 3 Destroyer Is and 16+ Destroyer Ks as well as fighter death fleet.

Just they do not bother to send any of those Energy Cells to the construction sites in Fires of Defeat next door... Or even bother to use their matrix #9 fleet to save Matrix #451 next door many days earlier...

I suspect eventually some Energy Cells might arrive, but it is also entirely possible they will be so busy rebuilding every little loss they suffer... Only time will tell so maybe in another 8+ hours of playing...
They don't seem to have that issue in my game...

In fact I might have a Xenon Apocalypse on my hands:

Image

I think the Free Families are still alive cause I haven't done the Split missions yet and the Hall of Judgment being a mission station is blocking the Xenon advance...

Started the game in 5.0.
I think it's pure chance. If the Xen AI gets a few sectors early they just explode. Took a tour with the Geometric Owl, seen quite a few I and K fleets.

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Re: Anyway to stop the Xenon cheating?

Post by Rei Ayanami » Mon, 8. Aug 22, 18:45

csaba wrote:
Sun, 7. Aug 22, 22:51
They don't seem to have that issue in my game...

In fact I might have a Xenon Apocalypse on my hands:
That looks nice :D
Curious : How do Scale Plate Green/Turqoise Sea, Atyas Misfortunte/Faulty Logic hold up in that game?

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Re: Anyway to stop the Xenon cheating?

Post by csaba » Mon, 8. Aug 22, 20:52

Rei Ayanami wrote:
Mon, 8. Aug 22, 18:45
csaba wrote:
Sun, 7. Aug 22, 22:51
They don't seem to have that issue in my game...

In fact I might have a Xenon Apocalypse on my hands:
That looks nice :D
Curious : How do Scale Plate Green/Turqoise Sea, Atyas Misfortunte/Faulty Logic hold up in that game?
Atyas Misfortunte/Faulty Logic is my playground. I was about to clear HOP but decided it's probably better to help ZYA push back the terraformers.

Scale Plate Green/Turqoise Sea is Xenon, seems pretty basic, Comapny Regard is practically Xenon and Hewas Twin II is under siege. Here the Xenon have issue cleaning out the last defense stations which seems to be more of an issue for them then E-cells in my game. They had fleets in Scale Plate and Turquise but they didn't seem to feel the need to leave their guard positions and only attack the Teladi sectors with small ships which is obviously much slower than an I just lumbering through their stations.

So staying on topic:
I suspect Xenon have a built in global capital ship limit and right now only guard Ks exist in Scale Plate. This would also explain why they are so strong up North and why the Argon Fed cannot push toward Tharka's Cascade even though Argon Prime is my main cash system and the Shipyard/Wharf there is topped up 24/7 to the brim. Funnily me moving into Atiya's might have made it worse for the Split. :roll:

Also notice in the previous post they built an extra shipyard in wretched skies. Curious if it's a replacement for the Atya's one or they build more depending on territory.

Honestly they are an end game enemy so I don't mind playing some whack-a-mole with them but this is a bit ridiculous. If I'm right in the case I clear out another pocket they might get stronger in Scale Plate and wreck the sectors there, ironically making them stronger (more concentrated) by taking territory from them.

Also a funny thing is since Heretics end is neutral no bordering faction wants it and it acts as a buffer. So if I'd want to screw over the Argon I'd build a simple admin center there and have the Xenon take over, opening a second front. It's just funny how Xenon follow a no mans land rule.

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Re: Anyway to stop the Xenon cheating?

Post by -=SiR KiLLaLoT=- » Mon, 8. Aug 22, 21:59

csaba wrote:
Sun, 7. Aug 22, 22:51
They don't seem to have that issue in my game...

In fact I might have a Xenon Apocalypse on my hands:

Image

I think the Free Families are still alive cause I haven't done the Split missions yet and the Hall of Judgment being a mission station is blocking the Xenon advance...

Started the game in 5.0.
I think it's pure chance. If the Xen AI gets a few sectors early they just explode. Took a tour with the Geometric Owl, seen quite a few I and K fleets.
Why have I never had a game like this in my gamestarts? :rant: :rant:

Who knows if in custom gamestarts there is the possibility of using a seed to generate this type of situation ... :roll:

Someone tell me yes please! :mrgreen:
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Imperial Good
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Re: Anyway to stop the Xenon cheating?

Post by Imperial Good » Mon, 8. Aug 22, 22:24

My only guess is third party mod, old save file (pre 5.00) or the player actively hindered ZYA, possibly by boosting the Argons, and also prevented TER intervention from helping.

I recall seeing this before 5.00 on discord, but not since.

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Re: Anyway to stop the Xenon cheating?

Post by csaba » Tue, 9. Aug 22, 19:26

Imperial Good wrote:
Mon, 8. Aug 22, 22:24
My only guess is third party mod,
Nope, no mods. Haven't used mods with X4 yet. Although after 5.1 I've got a modified tag for some reason. So I guess I can't prove this. Interestingly steam achievements still work...
Imperial Good wrote:
Mon, 8. Aug 22, 22:24
old save file (pre 5.00)
Nope as I said above I started in 5.0. You can see in the upper left I'm playing with one of the new starts "Ash Zannt".
Imperial Good wrote:
Mon, 8. Aug 22, 22:24
or the player actively hindered ZYA, possibly by boosting the Argons,
Me feeding Argon Prime with practically infinite goods possibly contributed. Otherwise I was mostly South and haven't uncovered the northern Split map until this thread prompted me.
Imperial Good wrote:
Mon, 8. Aug 22, 22:24
and also prevented TER intervention from helping.
Nope again.

At some point ANT won Getsu Fune. I guess the Xenon blew the Terran def station up. That made TER hyper and now 3-5 destroyer fleets patrol the sector, that might contribute as a resource sink. Otherwise I just helped out a Tokyo in Two Grand so they seem to be just fine and don't have to send any intervention fleets South anymore and can fully focus North.

Imperial Good wrote:
Mon, 8. Aug 22, 22:24
I recall seeing this before 5.00 on discord, but not since.
Well here is the exception to your rule I guess.

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Re: Anyway to stop the Xenon cheating?

Post by jlehtone » Tue, 9. Aug 22, 20:21

csaba wrote:
Tue, 9. Aug 22, 19:26
At some point ANT won Getsu Fune. I guess the Xenon blew the Terran def station up.
Getsu has TER def at start? When I did add CoH to already running game I saw no such thing. (That obviously was aroun version 4.0.)

Can you dig up seed from a save? The first lines of uncompressed file look something like:

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><savegame>
<info>
<save name="#005" date="1660065602"/>
<game id="X4" version="510" build="479084" modified="0" time="3076003.152" code="6561406" original="310" originalbuild="0" start="x4ep1_gamestart_discover" seed="3023799702" guid="4D5671CA-D889-4B04-B49D-4AB11C9DB8C2"/>
<player name="Selaia Tarren" location="{20004,290011}" money="739315734"/>
Some of us might be very interested in feeding the seed into the custom starts.
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Re: Anyway to stop the Xenon cheating?

Post by Imperial Good » Tue, 9. Aug 22, 20:59

csaba wrote:
Tue, 9. Aug 22, 19:26
Me feeding Argon Prime with practically infinite goods possibly contributed.
Probably. ZYA has a hard time keeping Argon at bay due to Argon destroyers being better at killing stations in low attention. And this is from my experience with boosting both sides at the same time.

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Re: Anyway to stop the Xenon cheating?

Post by jojorne » Tue, 9. Aug 22, 21:31

Imperial Good wrote:
Tue, 9. Aug 22, 20:59
ZYA has a hard time keeping Argon at bay due to Argon destroyers being better at killing stations in low attention. And this is from my experience with boosting both sides at the same time.
Uhmm... I always thought that was because they have a hard time mining to keep their production going (Kha'ak and paper ships). But again, my ZYA start had a shipyard malfunction.

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Re: Anyway to stop the Xenon cheating?

Post by csaba » Tue, 9. Aug 22, 21:59

jlehtone wrote:
Tue, 9. Aug 22, 20:21
csaba wrote:
Tue, 9. Aug 22, 19:26
At some point ANT won Getsu Fune. I guess the Xenon blew the Terran def station up.
Getsu has TER def at start? When I did add CoH to already running game I saw no such thing. (That obviously was aroun version 4.0.)
I'm 99% sure the reason Getsu Fune is a neutral sector at the start is because both TER and ANT start with a default defense station there. Heck one of the very earliest Terran missions sends you to the Terran def station there. Hence if one losses it's admin module the Sector becomes owned.

jlehtone wrote:
Tue, 9. Aug 22, 20:21
Can you dig up seed from a save? The first lines of uncompressed file look something like:

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><savegame>
<info>
<save name="#005" date="1660065602"/>
<game id="X4" version="510" build="479084" modified="0" time="3076003.152" code="6561406" original="310" originalbuild="0" start="x4ep1_gamestart_discover" seed="3023799702" guid="4D5671CA-D889-4B04-B49D-4AB11C9DB8C2"/>
<player name="Selaia Tarren" location="{20004,290011}" money="739315734"/>
Some of us might be very interested in feeding the seed into the custom starts.
I doubt it will play out the same without taking the same steps. As Imperial Good points out me heavily boosting the Argon Fed might have led to ZYA's downfall.

But have fun with it:

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<savegame>
<info>
<save name="Family Tkr" date="1659986439"/>
<game id="X4" version="510" build="479084" modified="4" time="1460079.46" code="8291252" original="510" originalbuild="477240" start="x4ep1_gamestart_pirate1" seed="3162513351" guid="2A254D86-E364-4622-AE0A-704FEC642FC1"/>
<player name="Ash Zannt" location="{20004,4070011}" money="358102779"/>
<patches>
<patch extension="ego_dlc_split" version="510" name="Split Vendetta"/>
<patch extension="ego_dlc_pirate" version="510" name="Tides of Avarice"/>
<patch extension="ego_dlc_terran" version="510" name="Cradle of Humanity"/>
<history>
<patch extension="ego_dlc_split" version="510" name="Split Vendetta"/>
<patch extension="ego_dlc_pirate" version="510" name="Tides of Avarice"/>
<patch extension="ego_dlc_terran" version="510" name="Cradle of Humanity"/>
jojorne wrote:
Tue, 9. Aug 22, 21:31
Imperial Good wrote:
Tue, 9. Aug 22, 20:59
ZYA has a hard time keeping Argon at bay due to Argon destroyers being better at killing stations in low attention. And this is from my experience with boosting both sides at the same time.
Uhmm... I always thought that was because they have a hard time mining to keep their production going (Kha'ak and paper ships). But again, my ZYA start had a shipyard malfunction.
I also noticed that AI Argon Behemoths tend to range stations with their main guns without receiving much damage in return when in OOS. I've only seen it with Xenon but Split Plasma Turrets having abysmal range likely contributes to the issue at hand.

EDIT:
Speaking of the devil: Another topic just popped up where a guy is saying ZYA dies in their every game. So I'm not alone here.

viewtopic.php?f=146&t=449001

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