Anyway to stop the Xenon cheating?

[blackphoenixx]

This is awesome insight - thank you all so much! Just one last barrage of questions if I may before making a pest of myself...

1. Where do the Khaak come from? I've searched the farthest corners of my sector and no hives. They dont appear to be coming through the gates either as I've parked fleets and stations there. I'm in Aditya Misfortune 1
2. What is mean't by "bombers"? Are these any heavy fighters with mortars / heavy duty missile load outs or are we talking Medium sized corvettes
3. Do fighters attacking a station know to attack turrets first or do you have to tell them somehow. I couldnt see an option to do the latter but perhaps its buried in the menu somewhere
4. I hear Syn and Asgaards are possibly the best large ships in the game but unless I'm missing something, you cannot buy them only build them after getting the blue print. Trouble is these cost like 300m! Cool if thats the case, just want to make sure there isnt a station somewhere that sells them

1. If you don't mind spoilers and want to know exactly how Khaak work i suggest a look at Khaak Mechanics: Locations, Spawning and Combat. The short answer is that they just spawn in the sector if there's mining activity.

2. Any S ship with an anti-capital loadout basically. M ships are a terrible choice against capitals because they're too clumsy to dodge L turrets, they get slaughtered by gravitons.

3. There's a checkbox to "attack to disable" in the order menu (once you click on the + next to the attack order). Unfortunately you have to set it every time you issue a new attack order and it doesn't work with group selection.
You can work around the latter by assigning your bombers to "attack with commander" on one of them and only ordering around the wing leader.

4. No, they're not sold. You can board them though. And 300 mil isn't really that much once you get a half-decent mining fleet going. It adds up fast.

[jlehtone]

2. What is mean't by "bombers"? Are these any heavy fighters with mortars / heavy duty missile load outs or are we talking Medium sized corvettes

Since the mention was "bombers armed with Blast Mortars" and there are only S Blast Mortars, that must refer to S-size ships.

For the #4 some are not happy about how easy it is to get an Asgard (by boarding). IMHO, that is most enjoyable activity (but then again, I did work to gain -30 rep with TER -- lawful evil and stuff).

They need ore, silicon and energy cells. Of course they do not deliver the energy cells in a timely way from my experience so construction progress does not occur but they do seem to regularly ship ore and silicon to their station build sites.

One of their plots that has been so (at 15%) for a "good while" (judging by that PAR have completed several stations with modules -- sans surface elements during the same timespan). I took a peek at it. There were crates in their Build Storage. I shot one and a container of ~2k ECells did drop. Therefore, XEN can deliver all three, but perhaps not quite enough?

[Imperial Good]

1. Where do the Khaak come from? I've searched the farthest corners of my sector and no hives. They dont appear to be coming through the gates either as I've parked fleets and stations there. I'm in Aditya Misfortune 1

They jump in from outside the X4 universe. Their ships have jump drives, as Khaak always do.

3. Do fighters attacking a station know to attack turrets first or do you have to tell them somehow. I couldnt see an option to do the latter but perhaps its buried in the menu somewhere

Seems to be an automatic behaviour to some extent.

4. I hear Syn and Asgaards are possibly the best large ships in the game but unless I'm missing something, you cannot buy them only build them after getting the blue print. Trouble is these cost like 300m! Cool if thats the case, just want to make sure there isnt a station somewhere that sells them

Only beaten by the Erlking which is unique and part of the Tides of Avarice DLC.

Rattlesnake is the closest L ship to the Syn as far as firepower goes. Raptor is the closest in fire power to the Asgard as far as XL goes. Both Split Vendetta.

Base game Odysseus E is about the best you can do.

Therefore, XEN can deliver all three, but perhaps not quite enough?

Been watching 3 xenon construction sites for almost 8 hours. Scanning all incoming delivery S ships. Only Ore and Silicon are being shipped to them.

In any case this shows a massive issue with Xenon logistics. One that never used to be the case...

[jojorne]

Been watching 3 xenon construction sites for almost 8 hours. Scanning all incoming delivery S ships. Only Ore and Silicon are being shipped to them.

In any case this shows a massive issue with Xenon logistics. One that never used to be the case...

this kinda worries me...

[Duncaroos]

Been watching 3 xenon construction sites for almost 8 hours. Scanning all incoming delivery S ships. Only Ore and Silicon are being shipped to them.

In any case this shows a massive issue with Xenon logistics.

Is the issue you see because there's no energy cells or something? I would think that being terraformering replicating AI, Xenon only need base materials to make whatever they want.

[Imperial Good]

Is the issue you see because there's no energy cells or something? I would think that being terraformering replicating AI, Xenon only need base materials to make whatever they want.

They might have sacrificed all but 3 of their solar power stations but they still produce significant numbers of energy cells. Their Matrix #9 fleet is constantly replenished if destroyed and consists of 3 Destroyer Is and 16+ Destroyer Ks as well as fighter death fleet.

Just they do not bother to send any of those Energy Cells to the construction sites in Fires of Defeat next door... Or even bother to use their matrix #9 fleet to save Matrix #451 next door many days earlier...

I suspect eventually some Energy Cells might arrive, but it is also entirely possible they will be so busy rebuilding every little loss they suffer... Only time will tell so maybe in another 8+ hours of playing...

[jlehtone]

The Matrix #9 fleet is constantly replenished if destroyed ...

That clearly shows that there are both resources (SPP and mineral fields) and logistics (XEN Miner S and XEN Energy S ships).

We can ask: Are all those XEN Energy S ships set to serve only the yards (that is, separate jobs for station and build supply), or do the yards simply have much higher priority than build sites?

How can we answer that question?

[Hangar181]

This is gold, thank you again for all the advice. I tried a fleet attack combo of 45 Ares with mortars and 30 Chimeras with Thermal Detonators against a Xenon Defence platform with the great tip of "Disable" in attack instructions and only lost 1 fighter. I tried the same thing again and wouldve probably worked too had one of my destroyers parked well out of range not decided to be a hero and dash in not only killing himself but bringing out every fighter an his dog. Oh well next time destroyers can wait in another sector just to be safe. Out of interest is there anyway to "repair all" when I send my fighters back to the carrier. I can onyl see how to do it one at a time which is painful.

[Imperial Good]

We can ask: Are all those XEN Energy S ships set to serve only the yards (that is, separate jobs for station and build supply), or do the yards simply have much higher priority than build sites?

The name of the ship does not matter. A XEN S is a XEN S and I have seen Energy Distribution S mining as well as Mining S distributing Energy Cells.

Their yards will certainly have priority due to being closer than the station construction sites. At least if they use regular trade logic. I would hope the NPCs have more special trade logic letting them prioritise construction sites based on overall faction goals.

Out of interest is there anyway to "repair all" when I send my fighters back to the carrier.

Carrier subordinates will automatically repair themselves on docking as long as their resupply setting is set to some level. Resupply setting might need to be explicitly set for the commanding carrier so their subordinates inherit an enabled value. Setting it to high should assure that practically every ding they get is repaired on docking. If you are using your fighters outside a carrier you can still assign them as subordinates to one just for the automatic repair.

Resupply ships assigned to resupply a fleet will also repair all members of that fleet, including L and XL. Again a resupply level must be selected (preferably high) for this to work.

[jlehtone]

Their yards will certainly have priority due to being closer than the station construction sites. At least if they use regular trade logic. I would hope the NPCs have more special trade logic letting them prioritise construction sites based on overall faction goals.

Indeed.

Therefore, the vanilla method to inspire Xenon to build is to keep their ships alive long enough for trade logic to spot the build sites?

Back in 3.xx the S did dash to new build sites. Perhaps they were tuned to be more cautious, since such reckless forays into contested space did take a heavy toll from their numbers and did starve their homes?

[csaba]

Is the issue you see because there's no energy cells or something? I would think that being terraformering replicating AI, Xenon only need base materials to make whatever they want.

They might have sacrificed all but 3 of their solar power stations but they still produce significant numbers of energy cells. Their Matrix #9 fleet is constantly replenished if destroyed and consists of 3 Destroyer Is and 16+ Destroyer Ks as well as fighter death fleet.

Just they do not bother to send any of those Energy Cells to the construction sites in Fires of Defeat next door... Or even bother to use their matrix #9 fleet to save Matrix #451 next door many days earlier...

I suspect eventually some Energy Cells might arrive, but it is also entirely possible they will be so busy rebuilding every little loss they suffer... Only time will tell so maybe in another 8+ hours of playing...

They don't seem to have that issue in my game...

In fact I might have a Xenon Apocalypse on my hands:



I think the Free Families are still alive cause I haven't done the Split missions yet and the Hall of Judgment being a mission station is blocking the Xenon advance...

Started the game in 5.0.
I think it's pure chance. If the Xen AI gets a few sectors early they just explode. Took a tour with the Geometric Owl, seen quite a few I and K fleets.

[Rei Ayanami]

They don't seem to have that issue in my game...

In fact I might have a Xenon Apocalypse on my hands:

That looks nice
Curious : How do Scale Plate Green/Turqoise Sea, Atyas Misfortunte/Faulty Logic hold up in that game?

[csaba]

They don't seem to have that issue in my game...

In fact I might have a Xenon Apocalypse on my hands:

That looks nice
Curious : How do Scale Plate Green/Turqoise Sea, Atyas Misfortunte/Faulty Logic hold up in that game?

Atyas Misfortunte/Faulty Logic is my playground. I was about to clear HOP but decided it's probably better to help ZYA push back the terraformers.

Scale Plate Green/Turqoise Sea is Xenon, seems pretty basic, Comapny Regard is practically Xenon and Hewas Twin II is under siege. Here the Xenon have issue cleaning out the last defense stations which seems to be more of an issue for them then E-cells in my game. They had fleets in Scale Plate and Turquise but they didn't seem to feel the need to leave their guard positions and only attack the Teladi sectors with small ships which is obviously much slower than an I just lumbering through their stations.

So staying on topic:
I suspect Xenon have a built in global capital ship limit and right now only guard Ks exist in Scale Plate. This would also explain why they are so strong up North and why the Argon Fed cannot push toward Tharka's Cascade even though Argon Prime is my main cash system and the Shipyard/Wharf there is topped up 24/7 to the brim. Funnily me moving into Atiya's might have made it worse for the Split.

Also notice in the previous post they built an extra shipyard in wretched skies. Curious if it's a replacement for the Atya's one or they build more depending on territory.

Honestly they are an end game enemy so I don't mind playing some whack-a-mole with them but this is a bit ridiculous. If I'm right in the case I clear out another pocket they might get stronger in Scale Plate and wreck the sectors there, ironically making them stronger (more concentrated) by taking territory from them.

Also a funny thing is since Heretics end is neutral no bordering faction wants it and it acts as a buffer. So if I'd want to screw over the Argon I'd build a simple admin center there and have the Xenon take over, opening a second front. It's just funny how Xenon follow a no mans land rule.

[-=SiR KiLLaLoT=-]

They don't seem to have that issue in my game...

In fact I might have a Xenon Apocalypse on my hands:



I think the Free Families are still alive cause I haven't done the Split missions yet and the Hall of Judgment being a mission station is blocking the Xenon advance...

Started the game in 5.0.
I think it's pure chance. If the Xen AI gets a few sectors early they just explode. Took a tour with the Geometric Owl, seen quite a few I and K fleets.

Why have I never had a game like this in my gamestarts?

Who knows if in custom gamestarts there is the possibility of using a seed to generate this type of situation ...

Someone tell me yes please!

[Imperial Good]

My only guess is third party mod, old save file (pre 5.00) or the player actively hindered ZYA, possibly by boosting the Argons, and also prevented TER intervention from helping.

I recall seeing this before 5.00 on discord, but not since.

[csaba]

My only guess is third party mod,

Nope, no mods. Haven't used mods with X4 yet. Although after 5.1 I've got a modified tag for some reason. So I guess I can't prove this. Interestingly steam achievements still work...

old save file (pre 5.00)

Nope as I said above I started in 5.0. You can see in the upper left I'm playing with one of the new starts "Ash Zannt".

or the player actively hindered ZYA, possibly by boosting the Argons,

Me feeding Argon Prime with practically infinite goods possibly contributed. Otherwise I was mostly South and haven't uncovered the northern Split map until this thread prompted me.

and also prevented TER intervention from helping.

Nope again.

At some point ANT won Getsu Fune. I guess the Xenon blew the Terran def station up. That made TER hyper and now 3-5 destroyer fleets patrol the sector, that might contribute as a resource sink. Otherwise I just helped out a Tokyo in Two Grand so they seem to be just fine and don't have to send any intervention fleets South anymore and can fully focus North.

I recall seeing this before 5.00 on discord, but not since.

Well here is the exception to your rule I guess.

[jlehtone]

At some point ANT won Getsu Fune. I guess the Xenon blew the Terran def station up.

Getsu has TER def at start? When I did add CoH to already running game I saw no such thing. (That obviously was aroun version 4.0.)

Can you dig up seed from a save? The first lines of uncompressed file look something like:

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><savegame>
<info>
<save name="#005" date="1660065602"/>
<game id="X4" version="510" build="479084" modified="0" time="3076003.152" code="6561406" original="310" originalbuild="0" start="x4ep1_gamestart_discover" seed="3023799702" guid="4D5671CA-D889-4B04-B49D-4AB11C9DB8C2"/>
<player name="Selaia Tarren" location="{20004,290011}" money="739315734"/>

Some of us might be very interested in feeding the seed into the custom starts.

[Imperial Good]

Me feeding Argon Prime with practically infinite goods possibly contributed.

Probably. ZYA has a hard time keeping Argon at bay due to Argon destroyers being better at killing stations in low attention. And this is from my experience with boosting both sides at the same time.

[jojorne]

ZYA has a hard time keeping Argon at bay due to Argon destroyers being better at killing stations in low attention. And this is from my experience with boosting both sides at the same time.

Uhmm... I always thought that was because they have a hard time mining to keep their production going (Kha'ak and paper ships). But again, my ZYA start had a shipyard malfunction.

[csaba]

At some point ANT won Getsu Fune. I guess the Xenon blew the Terran def station up.

Getsu has TER def at start? When I did add CoH to already running game I saw no such thing. (That obviously was aroun version 4.0.)

I'm 99% sure the reason Getsu Fune is a neutral sector at the start is because both TER and ANT start with a default defense station there. Heck one of the very earliest Terran missions sends you to the Terran def station there. Hence if one losses it's admin module the Sector becomes owned.

Can you dig up seed from a save? The first lines of uncompressed file look something like:

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><savegame>
<info>
<save name="#005" date="1660065602"/>
<game id="X4" version="510" build="479084" modified="0" time="3076003.152" code="6561406" original="310" originalbuild="0" start="x4ep1_gamestart_discover" seed="3023799702" guid="4D5671CA-D889-4B04-B49D-4AB11C9DB8C2"/>
<player name="Selaia Tarren" location="{20004,290011}" money="739315734"/>

Some of us might be very interested in feeding the seed into the custom starts.

I doubt it will play out the same without taking the same steps. As Imperial Good points out me heavily boosting the Argon Fed might have led to ZYA's downfall.

But have fun with it:

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<savegame>
<info>
<save name="Family Tkr" date="1659986439"/>
<game id="X4" version="510" build="479084" modified="4" time="1460079.46" code="8291252" original="510" originalbuild="477240" start="x4ep1_gamestart_pirate1" seed="3162513351" guid="2A254D86-E364-4622-AE0A-704FEC642FC1"/>
<player name="Ash Zannt" location="{20004,4070011}" money="358102779"/>
<patches>
<patch extension="ego_dlc_split" version="510" name="Split Vendetta"/>
<patch extension="ego_dlc_pirate" version="510" name="Tides of Avarice"/>
<patch extension="ego_dlc_terran" version="510" name="Cradle of Humanity"/>
<history>
<patch extension="ego_dlc_split" version="510" name="Split Vendetta"/>
<patch extension="ego_dlc_pirate" version="510" name="Tides of Avarice"/>
<patch extension="ego_dlc_terran" version="510" name="Cradle of Humanity"/>

ZYA has a hard time keeping Argon at bay due to Argon destroyers being better at killing stations in low attention. And this is from my experience with boosting both sides at the same time.

Uhmm... I always thought that was because they have a hard time mining to keep their production going (Kha'ak and paper ships). But again, my ZYA start had a shipyard malfunction.

I also noticed that AI Argon Behemoths tend to range stations with their main guns without receiving much damage in return when in OOS. I've only seen it with Xenon but Split Plasma Turrets having abysmal range likely contributes to the issue at hand.

EDIT:
Speaking of the devil: Another topic just popped up where a guy is saying ZYA dies in their every game. So I'm not alone here.

viewtopic.php?f=146&t=449001