Are Teladi L/XL ships subject to a refresh ?

[SphinxofBlackQuartz]

Teladi capitals suffer from being slaves to the "design language".
Frankly, I think it speaks volume on the designers lack of creativity when they decide that all factions ships have to look the same. We humans can build tons of different looking stuff, so there's no reason for everything to look so same-y. Different contractors and different design teams come up with different hull shapes.

I know it's done so the player can easily ID, but I don't think it's necessary to this extent. You have radar/sensor to easily tell friend from foe.

I respectfully disagree. The emphasis on visual design language is one of the best and most important advances in game design over the last fifteen or so years; it also communicates information to the player more quickly and more intuitively than reading text on a screen. Once you recognize the consistent visual flourishes of Teladi or Terran or Split ships, they communicate "This is what I am" without ever needing to pass through your conscious mind.

[photomankc]

I just adore when one of the SCA Phoenix ships harass my trade ships.


"Assemble the Marines"

It's far too plodding slow for me to enjoy flying it personally but it is also very hard to bring to a halt and I've had good luck with it as part of my rag-tag Destroyer Task Groups. It seems to work well OOS. I do appreciate their bridge design.

[Falcrack]

I'm not a fan of the Teladi mushroom shaped theme. But I wouldn't ask to redesign existing ships. Rather I would want them to focus their attention on giving the Teladi and every other faction that lacks one a proper XL sized battleship. Theycan use the new construction ship designs as a template, that would be fine by me. Except the Argon, for that they could import the Arawn or Tarranis from X Rebirth.

[Zloth2]

If the Teladi do an XL, I think it should be an XL trade ship.

Hmmm... maybe a mushroom on both ends. If something bad shows up in front of it, it doesn't bother turning around. It just stops the front mushroom and turns on the back mushroom.

[THE_TrashMan]

I respectfully disagree. The emphasis on visual design language is one of the best and most important advances in game design over the last fifteen or so years; it also communicates information to the player more quickly and more intuitively than reading text on a screen. Once you recognize the consistent visual flourishes of Teladi or Terran or Split ships, they communicate "This is what I am" without ever needing to pass through your conscious mind.

Funny how I play with tons of ship mods that adds different designs, but never had an issue playing.
Could it be because your radar/sensor marks it as friendly/hostile (which is the most important piece of information)? That you can recognize it anyway by shape, even tough it doesn't look like an almost complete clone?

How do people in RL get on with their lives?

[Genoscythe]

I love the mushroom ships. They are probably my favorites to see while traveling. I will say I don't use them often in an offensive capacity personally. Like if I have to go hunt down a pair of Xenon K and I had one of each destroyer next to each other, the phoenix is probably at the bottom of the list I would choose because of dmg output and handling overall. My biggest gripe with them was the phoenix had bugged damage numbers which have since been fixed and brought into line with all the OG destroyers.

I do wish the phoenix had larger freight capacities, or all the TEL ships in general had larger freight capacities making them the clear leaders in commerce and shipping. Being able to use the phoenix as a more militarized freighter would be a cool choice, but it would need a substantial increase in freight capacity for that to be an option.

If I had a wishlist for the TEL phoenix, give those ships with the 3 offset engines MUCH better handling, and significantly increase their storage capacity.

I dig the idea of a militarized trade fleet, but the Barbarossa from the ToA DLC already kinda covers that now. I found the choice to just make TEL ships worse in terms of offensive capability a bit weird, their trade ships should boast way stronger turret and shield setups than any other faction. Gotta protect your profitssssss. There's no point in actually getting into teladianium production at the moment, as TEL ships and gear are the bottom of the barrel.

[THE_TrashMan]

I dig the idea of a militarized trade fleet, but the Barbarossa from the ToA DLC already kinda covers that now. I found the choice to just make TEL ships worse in terms of offensive capability a bit weird, their trade ships should boast way stronger turret and shield setups than any other faction. Gotta protect your profitssssss.

So what should actual miltaristic civilizations ships be then?
It doesn't make sense to have a militarized trader that is as good as a warship. There MUST be trade-off. There ALWAYS are. The more space you use for cargo, the less space for other things.
Ship design is a balance thing.
Which is why I hate ships that do everything.. "Look at my battleship-carrier that is super in any role! Also, it is super-fast, heavily armored AND has tons of cargo space!" Like a Mary sue of ships. Just grinds my gears

[Genoscythe]

I dig the idea of a militarized trade fleet, but the Barbarossa from the ToA DLC already kinda covers that now. I found the choice to just make TEL ships worse in terms of offensive capability a bit weird, their trade ships should boast way stronger turret and shield setups than any other faction. Gotta protect your profitssssss.

So what should actual miltaristic civilizations ships be then?
It doesn't make sense to have a militarized trader that is as good as a warship. There MUST be trade-off. There ALWAYS are. The more space you use for cargo, the less space for other things.
Ship design is a balance thing.
Which is why I hate ships that do everything.. "Look at my battleship-carrier that is super in any role! Also, it is super-fast, heavily armored AND has tons of cargo space!" Like a Mary sue of ships. Just grinds my gears

Never said it needs to be a warship, but at the moment all trade ships are fair game to pirates. There's a huge spectrum between a destroyer and a trader where a trader can move towards strong defenses without being able to be used as a warship, not having a spinal main battery being one of them. For example by adding an array of extra M turrets, or by actually making one L ship that has a useful boost and not just hurr durr +50 m/s for 20% of my shields so it can escape from attackers.

There's already a heavily armed ship that is super fast and has the best scaling firepower in the game, it's called Erlking, and it's unique for a reason.

[Pesanur]

Never said it needs to be a warship, but at the moment all trade ships are fair game to pirates. There's a huge spectrum between a destroyer and a trader where a trader can move towards strong defenses without being able to be used as a warship, not having a spinal main battery being one of them. For example by adding an array of extra M turrets, or by actually making one L ship that has a useful boost and not just hurr durr +50 m/s for 20% of my shields so it can escape from attackers.

There's already a heavily armed ship that is super fast and has the best scaling firepower in the game, it's called Erlking, and it's unique for a reason.

So, what you like is ships like the Titurel and the Lyramekron from X-Rebirth.

[THE_TrashMan]

There's already a heavily armed ship that is super fast and has the best scaling firepower in the game, it's called Erlking, and it's unique for a reason.

It's also ugly beyond reason and stats make no sense compared to appearance.

A ship that looks like a big solid block of armor ends up having less HP/armor than a ship that looks like scrap metal balls held together with duct tape

[Agrefits]

I respectfully disagree. The emphasis on visual design language is one of the best and most important advances in game design over the last fifteen or so years; it also communicates information to the player more quickly and more intuitively than reading text on a screen. Once you recognize the consistent visual flourishes of Teladi or Terran or Split ships, they communicate "This is what I am" without ever needing to pass through your conscious mind.

While i agree with you, that the visual design language is a good thing to have and very well worth to keep, i also feel like teladi ships need a refresh away from the "All Cap Ships have to be blocky and short" .. The Egosoft Dev Team perfectly demostrated with the Paranid redesigns that they are perfectly capable of improving the visual on next level stuff while keeping the design language. Would love to see refurbished teladi ships that do not look like they where put under a hydraulic press.

Same goes with Argon ships. Would love to see the devs unfold their design ideas without being compromized by the old launch logic where the ships had to be clunky and within a certain dimension to fit through the Gates. Hence even the existing and good looking argon designs would look even more badass if they where just "longer"

[Nerwesta]

I really agree about what you guys said lately, this issue shouldn't be stated as a manichean way, black or white if you prefer.
I'm sure for those who like Mushrooms they could still ride the older ones if only Egosoft provided a refresh, or even better having the refreshed ships keeping that same design language we are used to but with more differences.

Statistics-wise, I agree their ships are not quite shining, despite what some members told in the past.
A bigger freighter that can defend itself, more than those we can find on other races could do the trick and strenghten their qualities in term of lore.

About Argon ships, I just hope the Ides & Mercury ( I think ) can get a proper skin, one or the other, to this day it still scream " we couldn't fit a brand new design for this ship A, so let's throw a carbon copy of this ship B "
Finally, I wouldn't find any problem if we as a player could pull a proper hull on the Erlking, in fact make it an expensive mod or something like that, that would be so nice. However that's not on the top of my personal list

[SphinxofBlackQuartz]

Finally, I wouldn't find any problem if we as a player could pull a proper hull on the Erlking, in fact make it an expensive mod or something like that, that would be so nice. However that's not on the top of my personal list

I find the lack of Minmatar fans in this thread disturbing.

[Genoscythe]

There's already a heavily armed ship that is super fast and has the best scaling firepower in the game, it's called Erlking, and it's unique for a reason.

It's also ugly beyond reason and stats make no sense compared to appearance.

A ship that looks like a big solid block of armor ends up having less HP/armor than a ship that looks like scrap metal balls held together with duct tape

And why not? It's an engine glued to a powercore and was only ever half finished. Without the players intervention it performs like a proper piece of scrap metal.

[THE_TrashMan]

It should have piss-poor hull/armor, because it look like it doesn't have armor at all and like it'+s held together with duct-tape.
Stats should make sense and match the visuals.