Question: Will 7.0 adress the issue of the "spinning Raptor"?

[Ragnos28]

Hello everybody,

I have a question, are there any plans for the 7.0 update to adress the "spinning Raptor" issue?
This is what I mean: https://youtu.be/4Pi0xwXRyMY?t=375

[CBJ]

It's hard to say whether a specific issue shown in a video is fixed without knowing exactly why it's happening in that video, and we can't tell that without a savegame that demonstrates it. If you make a report in Tech Support and provide the necessary information and savegame then we might be able to answer your question.

[Ragnos28]

It's hard to say whether a specific issue shown in a video is fixed without knowing exactly why it's happening in that video, and we can't tell that without a savegame that demonstrates it. If you make a report in Tech Support and provide the necessary information and savegame then we might be able to answer your question.

I'm prety sure that the issue of fighters getting stuck in the geometry of carriers causing them rotate uncontrollably as a result, was already discussed on the forum many times before, I was just asking if they are plans for that issue to be adressed in 7.0. But just in case, I will try to find if the issue was already reported on the tech forum so I don't double post.

[Ragnos28]

Found it: viewtopic.php?f=180&t=457478

So, lets try again, will this issue be addressed in 7.0 fixes?

[adeine]

We can hope, but the complete radio silence since the early days of 6.0 isn't the best sign.

-edit: you can see the stuck fighter escape the hull at 8:18, just to the left of the reticle.

[Duncaroos]

I wouldn't necessarily say that's true. It's been given a bug #, so it's on their list; whether or not they actioned it you would have to wait for the change log. They don't always send a message back saying it is fixed, and bumping threads w/o new info to help with the bug/issue report is discouraged; I wish there was a way to "inquire" about a past post, but I haven't seen a preferred way of doing so.

[Ragnos28]

We can hope, but the complete radio silence since the early days of 6.0 isn't the best sign.

The complete radio silence is the most annoying. Imo, it would be better is the devs would do something like this:
"Dear players, we are currently working to fix these issues:
a).........
b).........
c).........
etc
We approximate that will take us about 6 months to fix them.
We thank you for your continued support, blah blah..."

And we, the players, would shut up about them for 6 months, but nope....its a secret, pshhh, hush hush...hence questions on forums.

[chew-ie]

We can hope, but the complete radio silence since the early days of 6.0 isn't the best sign.

The complete radio silence is the most annoying. Imo, it would be better is the devs would do something like this:
"Dear players, we are currently working to fix these issues:
a).........
b).........
c).........
etc
We approximate that will take us about 6 months to fix them.
We thank you for your continued support, blah blah..."

And we, the players, would shut up about them for 6 months, but nope....its a secret, pshhh, hush hush...hence questions on forums.

IMHO that's not true - they just seem to be very busy. In the last few days some devs checked around the forums and had brief interactions with fresh feature requests or old bug reports, even updating (both types) with "will be in a future version" comments.

It's okay if no one notices it - but it's kind of de-motivating to read stuff like that. At least it would be for me if I'd be a dev who tries to bring in some last-minute stuff as kind of gift.

Devs [in general] got burned too much when interacting too open with gamers (e.g. on social media). At the end they are just employees and have a single task: develop the game. They are not employed to communicate with customers.

[CBJ]

The claim that there is "radio silence" is demonstrably nonsense. I could link dozens of reports in which developers have posted replies over the last few weeks alone, indicating that a particular issue has been fixed in an upcoming version. We can't reply to every single thread; if we did then nothing would ever get done - but we do try and drop a note into at least one thread on any given topic when an issue has been confirmed to be resolved. Silence on a particular issue doesn't mean nothing has happened at all; it may just mean that we're not yet in a position to give a status update on it. And indeed that's actually the situation with this one.

As for giving a roadmap of planned fixes, sorry but no. Which issues we will be able to address and when depends on far too many unknowns, not least how complex each issue turns out to be and how long it ends up taking to solve. Telling people that we plan to try and fix something before we've even investigated it is just asking for trouble.

[Ragnos28]

The claim that there is "radio silence" is demonstrably nonsense. I could link dozens of reports in which developers have posted replies over the last few weeks alone, indicating that a particular issue has been fixed in an upcoming version. We can't reply to every single thread; if we did then nothing would ever get done - but we do try and drop a note into at least one thread on any given topic when an issue has been confirmed to be resolved. Silence on a particular issue doesn't mean nothing has happened at all; it may just mean that we're not yet in a position to give a status update on it. And indeed that's actually the situation with this one.

As for giving a roadmap of planned fixes, sorry but no. Which issues we will be able to address and when depends on far too many unknowns, not least how complex each issue turns out to be and how long it ends up taking to solve. Telling people that we plan to try and fix something before we've even investigated it is just asking for trouble.

Welp, that's disheartening.
Thank you for the answer, I guess...

[Duncaroos]

If you have more save games about the same issue - reply to that tech sp thread with said saves. The more instances of this occurring the more likely Egosoft might find the culprit.

If it's a slightly different issue - post a new thread (with the necessary files+save they ask for in the sticky thread of tech sp). If mods/devs want to merge them they will

[Ragnos28]

If you have more save games about the same issue - reply to that tech sp thread with said saves. The more instances of this occurring the more likely Egosoft might find the culprit.

If it's a slightly different issue - post a new thread (with the necessary files+save they ask for in the sticky thread of tech sp). If mods/devs want to merge them they will

Since from the answer I got, there is no status update on the issue, I have no way of knowing if additional save files are required.
And like you said, bumping old threads is discouraged.

[Duncaroos]

I have no way of knowing if additional save files are required

The save from the OP in the link you found loads up a carrier that is already spinning. If you have a situation where you just saved, and upon executing a command with the carrier (or subordinates) that triggers the behaviour - I would see that as being an exceptionally valuable save to add to that thread, as the devs can more easily find the trigger; when the ship is already doing the spin, the trigger cannot be found as easily.

I think I have a safe where I have a loaded Raptor. I'll try to see if I can recreate it. Current playthrough is modded so have to go backup that campaign and load up the unmodded one with the Raptor.

[adeine]

The claim that there is "radio silence" is demonstrably nonsense. I could link dozens of reports in which developers have posted replies over the last few weeks alone, indicating that a particular issue has been fixed in an upcoming version.

We're not talking about any particular issue, though, but specifically about jolt related issues as experienced by the OP. On which front yes, there has been radio silence since the early days of 6.0, to the point where I can't remember any sort of official acknowledgement after release that a) this is an ongoing issue, and b) there are plans to address it further.

It's possible I've just missed all these responses (I can't read every single post on the forums, but I do skim), but here's a short list to the best of my knowledge along with their outcome:

Version 6.0 BETA

[JOLT]6.00 Beta 1 (492332) 3 different Guillemot Vanguards are completely stuck undocking on a Zeus carrier
Date: Mon, 22. Jan 23
Last update: none
Dev response: none
Outcome: still in game (same issue as asked about by OP)

[RES][JOLT][6.00 Beta 492332] Clipped into the TEL Teladianium Foundry and getting stuck there
Date: Mon, 22. Jan 23
Last update: Wed, 1. Feb 23
Dev response: yes; no on-topic response
Outcome: marked RES, equivalent behaviour still in game

[6.0 b3] Multiple fighters stuck inside carrier geometry
Date: Sat, 18. Feb 23
Last update: none
Dev response: none
Outcome: still in game (same issue as asked about by OP)

X4 6.00 Beta 4 - Loss of Control on Collision
Date: Fri, 24. Feb 23
Last update: none
Dev response: none
Outcome: exact behaviour still in game

[6.0 Beta 4] Physics issue. Unable to stabilize raptor. Uncontrollable rotation
Date: Sat, 25. Feb 23
Last update: Sat, 25. Feb 23
Dev response: none
Outcome: still in game (same issue as asked about by OP)

[#938][Beta 6.00 5] Unusual L-XL Ship Collisions
Date: Thu, 16. Mar 23
Last update: Fri, 17. Mar 23
Dev response: yes, ask to retest with B6 and merged; # assigned; no further response
Outcome: exact behaviour still in game

[6RC1] Ship stuck in HAT Trading Station
Date: Sat, 1. Apr 23
Last update: none
Dev response: none
Outcome: still happens in game

[6RC1] My own ship got stuck on my Capital ship
Date: Sun, 2. Apr 23
Last update: none
Dev response: none
Outcome: still happens in game

[Feedback] Capital ships are sticky in a slow collision
Date: Sun, 2. Apr 23
Last update: none
Dev response: none
Outcome: exact behaviour still in game

[6.0 Beta 4-7] Ship collision issues
Date: Sat, 4. Mar 23
Last update: Tue, 4. Apr 23
Dev response: yes, promised improvement in update
Outcome: teleportation workaround, basic problem persists

[TESTREQUEST] Jolt Physics
Date: Tue, 17. Jan 23
Last update: Wed, 12. Apr 23
Dev response: thread started by devs with acknowledgement of issues & links to reports.
Dev response (ctd): 2 dev responses directly addressing reported issues
Outcome: thread closed. OP never updated. majority of reported issues never addressed and still in game.

Having problems with automated ships getting stuck
Date: Tue, 28. Mar 23
Last update: Sat, 8. Apr 23
Dev response: savegame requested; savegames provided; no further response
Outcome: still happens in game

So this was 6.0 Beta. How have we done since then?


Version 6.0+ [RELEASE]

[6.0] Jolt issue with env_debris_station_l_05_container_macro
Date: Fri, 14. Apr 23
Last update: none
Dev response: none
Outcome: I'm not sure

[#1129]Ships in space getting stuck on each other
Date: Sun, 16. Apr 23
Last update: none
Dev response: none; # assigned
Outcome: still happens in game

6.00 (497467) – SV, COH, TOA, KE – Multiple M Class Trade Ships are stuck together attempting to undock from HAT station
Date: Sat, 22. Apr 23
Last update: none
Dev response: none
Outcome: traffic jam improved, collision issues persist

[6.0 Release] Spinning ships after colliding with highway and no reputation gain
Date: Mon, 24. Apr 23
Last update: none
Dev response: none
Outcome: teleportation workaround, basic problem persists

[6.0 H1] Physics is broken in 6.0!
Date: Sun, 23. Apr 23
Last update: none
Dev response: none
Outcome: inertia tweaked, maybe?

Physics bugs
Date: Wed, 26. Apr 23
Last update: none
Dev response: none
Outcome: behaviour still in game

Large ships Collision still having issues with docking :- Version 6 HF4 ( 498964)
Date: Fri, 12. May 23
Last update: none
Dev response: none
Outcome: still happens in game

Capital ship collisions with Jolt - Improved in HF4.
Date: Thu, 20. Apr 23
Last update: Sun, 14. May 23
Dev response: savegame requested; numerous example savegames provided; no further response
Outcome: teleportation workaround introduced, problems persist

Shark launches fighters into itself
Date: Mon, 15. May 23
Last update: none
Dev response: none
Outcome: still in game (same issue as asked about by OP)

Collisions between large and small ships
Date: Tue, 30. May 23
Last update: Tue, 30. May 23
Dev response: savegame requested
Outcome: still in game (same issue as asked about by OP)

BUG 6.0 Wreck collision sends player away at 4000+ m/s
Date: Mon, 22. May 23
Last update: Tue, 30. May 23
Dev response: none
Outcome: problems persist in game

[#1398][6.2b5] playership on autopilot path that crosses gate/accelerator often gets stuck
Date: Fri, 28. Jul 23
Last update: Fri, 28. Jul 23
Dev response: # assigned; savegame requested; savegame impossible to provide for reported issue
Outcome: still happens in game

[#1485]Boarding pods are thrown away too far.
Date: Wed, 30. Aug 23
Last update: none
Dev response: none; # assigned
Outcome: still happens in game

[#1526]6.2 Jolt Engine Spinning Raptor
Date: Wed, 27. Sep 23
Last update: Sun, 8. Oct 23
Dev response: none; # assigned
Outcome: still in game (same issue as asked about by OP)

[6.20] The destroyers "blob"
Date: Fri, 22. Dec 23
Last update: none
Dev response: none
Outcome: exact behaviour still in game

[#1645]Fighters getting stuck on Carriers
Date: Tue, 2. Jan 24
Last update: Tue, 9. Jan 24
Dev response: none; # assigned
Outcome: still in game (same issue as asked about by OP)

[#1637][6.20] Ship colliding/shaking, repeatedly, in open space?
Date: Sun, 21. Jan 24
Last update: none
Dev response: none; # assigned
Outcome: still happens in game


I can't speak to what is happening behind the scenes, but 'radio silence' is an apt descriptor from the community perspective.

[Ragnos28]

The save from the OP in the link you found loads up a carrier that is already spinning. If you have a situation where you just saved, and upon executing a command with the carrier (or subordinates) that triggers the behaviour - I would see that as being an exceptionally valuable save to add to that thread, as the devs can more easily find the trigger; when the ship is already doing the spin, the trigger cannot be found as easily.

I think I have a safe where I have a loaded Raptor. I'll try to see if I can recreate it. Current playthrough is modded so have to go backup that campaign and load up the unmodded one with the Raptor.

The problem is that you cannot predict the unpredictable. Loading such a save can have the fighters landing/taking off properly, and subsequently have the dev wondering what the hell the player is ranting on about, all is working as intended. And while is true that in my case, at the next engagement, the spinning occured again, that would involve waiting 10 minutes or so, and good luck convincing a dev to wait 10 minutes or to load a save multiple times (which I can understand to a point, time concerns and all that, but does not help in solving the issue). For some bugs is required to play the game, to actually encounter them.
But again, no interaction, no way of knowing if the save provided is sufficient or not.

As for you trying to provide an unmodded save, I think @Alan Phipps said that "Disabling mods does not make a save into vanilla as the third party mods and their effects are already embedded in the save. You could try disabling mods and seeing if the issue then persists in your game, but your support options if that doesn't help are rather limited."

[linolafett]

I just looked up some reports in the bug tacker (thats what these numbers in the threads are for) and some where marked as fixed.
Its not mandatory to close a bug report with an additional message in the forum thread, therefore there is sometimes just no feedback (for the public) until the patch notes are released.
I have poked the dev to post a message to the related bug report threads so you can see which issues were fixed/improved.

[Ragnos28]

That's encouraging news.
Just a little bit of communication goes a long way, I say.

[adeine]

I just looked up some reports in the bug tacker (thats what these numbers in the threads are for) and some where marked as fixed.
Its not mandatory to close a bug report with an additional message in the forum thread, therefore there is sometimes just no feedback (for the public) until the patch notes are released.
I have poked the dev to post a message to the related bug report threads so you can see which issues were fixed/improved.

Sadly the issues are not fixed though. It's possible that some parameters were tweaked so the specific save in question no longer leads to the same outcome, but as you can see in the OP the problem you've assigned IDs #1526, #1645, #1637 has seen no meaningful change.

I assume the 'fix' for issues #938, #1129, #1485 is the teleportation workaround, which leads to more game breaking behaviour than it addresses (and I'm not the only one pointing this out). It doesn't really stop things getting stuck on each other either (again, as the OP aptly demonstrates).

I'm not trying to be a pain here, I appreciate it's difficult to integrate third party code into your project that wasn't really made for this use case. And likewise, I understand it can be hard to gauge how much work a fix would be and err on the side of not overpromising. But there has been a steady trickle of people being vocal about these issues for well over a year now, and it does feel like the Jolt implementation was just quietly given up on after the test request thread by DocAce was closed and 6.0 pushed out the door.

When the only response is radio silence and essentially gaslighting about the frequency with which these problems are encountered in regular gameplay or pretending you (not you personally) don't know what people are talking about, it is pretty disheartening. No one is asking for a reply to every single bug report. But when it comes to a fundamental part of the game (collision physics) being broken for an entire major revision of the game (from the first 6.0 beta to now, with no end in sight), even just an acknowledgement of 'we know this is broken, it's on our radar and we're actively working on this' would go a long way.

[Alan Phipps]

See this dev post from another thread.

[CBJ]

I will add that this kind of response, accusing developers of gaslighting you and pretending not to know what you are talking about, is a perfect example of why there is little point in them bothering to engage on the forum. I was intending to respond to some of the specific points raised, but I am certainly not going to waste time doing that if all it results in is insults.