Existential Crisis Details Requested

[xant]

So you can swear up and down that you're a champion of sandbox choice and agency, but all I see is a guy who thinks a massive death fleet is okay as a mere decoration.

Well, think what you want, in the end your argument boils down to enforcing your idea of fun on everyone. That hitting a threshold of sorts should always be met with repercussions, retroactively, because that it such an interesting choice. The game didn't do anything like that from 1.00 to 6.20, and now suddenly it doesn't ever offer a choice. That's objectively not a good thing, to break with the status quo like that.

I can return your argument right back at you: You can swear up and down that you're a champion of interesting choices that matter, who has nothing but a fun game in mind. But in the end it's just you judging other players and wanting to punish those you deem deserving of punishment.

You don't get to tell me how I should play the game, or how the game should react to me playing it in a certain way, especially not after I played it like that for years without problems.

All I want is what I had for years until now, why is it that hard for you to accept? It's a rhetorical question, it doesn't need answering. I think there's nothing more to be said anyway, my position is clear.

Problem is I have no way to know how close I am to the threshold for triggering the crisis (which I'd really prefer to avoid, just doesn't sound like my sort of thing). Means I'm now worrying if I buy replacement ships to make up for the losses will that trigger the crisis? Currently getting close to finishing the Scale Plate Green terraforming mission, will the reward for that trigger it? If I take a fleet build mission, will that cross the threshold for the few minutes I own that fleet? & so on.

Really could do with a bit more info on this because the one thing I can't do near those excessively large stations is fight a battle, the frame rate's nowhere near good enough.

Yeah, the game doesn't even tell you how far along you are with the entire event chain. It could really use some transparency. If nothing else, that is the least they could implement.

[geldonyetich]

So you can swear up and down that you're a champion of sandbox choice and agency, but all I see is a guy who thinks a massive death fleet is okay as a mere decoration.

Well, think what you want, in the end your argument boils down to enforcing your idea of fun on everyone. That hitting a threshold of sorts should always be met with repercussions, retroactively, because that it such an interesting choice. The game didn't do anything like that from 1.00 to 6.20, and now suddenly it doesn't ever offer a choice. That's objectively not a good thing, to break with the status quo like that.

Man, how many times do I have to say that I think you ought to be able to play however you want?

Rather, what I think is that the existential crisis feature is going to have to introduce some meaningful consequence to choice for military fleet possession to matter.

I am sure some kind of accomodation could be made.

I can return your argument right back at you: You can swear up and down that you're a champion of interesting choices that matter, who has nothing but a fun game in mind. But in the end it's just you judging other players and wanting to punish those you deem deserving of punishment.

You don't get to tell me how I should play the game, or how the game should react to me playing it in a certain way, especially not after I played it like that for years without problems.

See, now I can recognize that your demanding Existential Crisis happens exactly as you want it to is judging other players who want to play otherwise as punishing them. Why can't you?

You're tossing stones in glass houses with statements like this. I don't have the right and neither do you to shut down other players opinions. However, we are still going to disagree on things.

Taking it to the level of suggesting my opinion is threatening you is ludicrous. Egosoft is the one who has a stake here, and nothing they can do will please absolutely everyone.

All I want is what I had for years until now, why is it that hard for you to accept? It's a rhetorical question, it doesn't need answering. I think there's nothing more to be said anyway, my position is clear.

Yeah, I would probably say a question is rhetorical too if the obvious answer is unacceptable: because Egosoft isn't making X5, or even a spinoff, they're iterating X4. Change is coming regardless.

[xant]

Man, how many times do I have to say that I think you ought to be able to play however you want?

Rather, what I think is that the existential crisis feature is going to have to introduce some meaningful consequence to choice for military fleet possession to matter.

*sigh* You have a leap in your logic. Those two statements are fundamentally opposed. "Play however you want" doesn't go well with "there should be consequences for playing a certain way", as the latter clearly favors some playstyles over others, and discourages certain approaches by threatening punishment.

When the game actively goes after you, because you dared to play in a certain way, then you're not enitrely free to play however you want. "some meaningful consequence to choice for military fleet possession", that isn't a choice, that's automatic punishment for having certain ships. You can only avoid it by not having those ships, and that's already a soft limit the game sets. I reject this idea at its very core.

See, now I can recognize that your demanding Existential Crisis happens exactly as you want it to is judging other players who want to play otherwise as punishing them. Why can't you?

What do you even try to say here? All I want is a button for the crisis. You go, press it, crisis happens. You don't press it, nothing happens. Everyone is happy. Well, everyone but you, because you want it to happen automatically by reaching a certain amount of ships.

I'm demanding nothing, I ask for choice. I don't care, not for a single second, what your save looks like, how many ships you have, if you want the crisis or not. How can you accuse me of judging your game, when I have shown absolutely zero interest in it? Play however you like, I don't want to know and I don't care. It's you who thinks I should be punished by the crisis for having too many ships apparently. That is the difference between us. I don't give a damn about what people do in their saves, I'm not the one saying the game needs to have consequences for having too many (whatever that is) military ships.

It's a simulation, everything everyone does has consequences. Isn't that enough? Anything extraordinary happening in the game should be player's choice. Like the main plots are started by you through Dal Busta. The crisis ought to have the same approach. Fire it early, or late, or not at all. Choice makes everyone happy, except those who like policing other people's saves, because then some people might choose wrong and have fun the wrong way.

[geldonyetich]

*sigh* You have a leap in your logic. Those two statements are fundamentally opposed. "Play however you want" doesn't go well with "there should be consequences for playing a certain way", as the latter clearly favors some playstyles over others, and discourages certain approaches by threatening punishment.

Not at all. The developers just put a mode switch in the game so two players can play it the way they want even if it's different. Failing that: you mod the game.

Thus, I could easily have my meaningful consequences and you a lack thereof.

What do you even try to say here? All I want is a button for the crisis. You go, press it, crisis happens. You don't press it, nothing happens.

Sure. All I am suggesting is that the button be moved elsewhere.

Everyone is happy. Well, everyone but you, because you want it to happen automatically by reaching a certain amount of ships.

I'm demanding nothing, I ask for choice. I don't care, not for a single second, what your save looks like, how many ships you have, if you want the crisis or not.

How can you accuse me of judging your game, when I have shown absolutely zero interest in it?

...

Well, by this point in the post it should be clear.

You have made an assumption about me. Probably confusing me with someone else you're arguing with.

Either that or you are misinterpreting a difference of opinion about how Existential Crisis should be run with insistence it will be done my way.

No. I will provide context why I don't want to play it your way, but that's not the same as expecting you will play it my way. Exactly how could I force you to do anything? You could easily mod the game you know.

[Nanook]

This has become personal for both of you and it needs to stop now. Discuss the issues, not each other. Otherwise this thread is going to get locked.

[Hector0x]

Over the years i have wasted lots of time trying to advocate for certain changes. Writing walls of text was fun but rarely ever successful, even when it was only about minor suggestions. People sometimes want to rationalize and ignore your valid argument and there is nothing you can do.

All that time is better spent on learning how to mod the game. Once you got the basics down it only takes about 5 min to disable the cue which triggers the crisis. Even adding a toggle button doesn't require actual programming skills. It’s possible for everyone unless you want to stay vanilla for Ventures.

[chew-ie]

Over the years i have wasted lots of time trying to advocate for certain changes. Writing walls of text was fun but rarely ever successful, even when it was only about minor suggestions. People sometimes want to rationalize and ignore your valid argument and there is nothing you can do.

All that time is better spent on learning how to mod the game. Once you got the basics down it only takes about 5 min to disable the cue which triggers the crisis. Even adding a toggle button doesn't require actual programming skills. It’s possible for everyone unless you want to stay vanilla for Ventures.

Agreed. Another way is to create an own game.

But I have to point out - solely relying on 3rd party mods to solve problems is problematic in itself. How would a public beta work if most of the core player base is used to non-Vanilla?

Obviously, everyone in this niche market working on own games is even more problematic in some regards.

[Techedge]

I think that the question just boils down to: why should this scripted situation, unlike the others, be activated directly rather than following a player choice?

Answer: it shouldn't, and xant is right, hands down. His suggestion to "make it optional" by postponing it talking to Boso Ta is clever, simple and logic.

[TheDeliveryMan]

I play X games because I can play them at my own pace. I can be lazy and there is no risk of falling behind NPC factions. Major changes to the geopolitical landscape require active player investment into plots. If the game suddenly forces me to deal with a major threat to my assets just because I reached some military net worth threshold, then the game stops beeing fun for me.

In my humble opinion this existential crisis feauture should be put into a separate, official DLC. I'd probably even buy it to try it once and to support Egosoft. But such a game changing feature does not belong into the base game.

[flywlyx]

In my humble opinion this existential crisis feauture should be put into a separate, official DLC. I'd probably even buy it to try it once and to support Egosoft. But such a game changing feature does not belong into the base game.

Even Paradox doesn't put crisis as a single DLC. I highly doubt whether Egosoft is capable of generating sufficient content for a crisis DLC.

[alt3rn1ty]

Over the years i have wasted lots of time trying to advocate for certain changes. Writing walls of text was fun but rarely ever successful, even when it was only about minor suggestions. People sometimes want to rationalize and ignore your valid argument and there is nothing you can do.

All that time is better spent on learning how to mod the game. Once you got the basics down it only takes about 5 min to disable the cue which triggers the crisis. Even adding a toggle button doesn't require actual programming skills. It’s possible for everyone unless you want to stay vanilla for Ventures.

Agreed. Another way is to create an own game.

But I have to point out - solely relying on 3rd party mods to solve problems is problematic in itself. How would a public beta work if most of the core player base is used to non-Vanilla?

Obviously, everyone in this niche market working on own games is even more problematic in some regards.

Plus there's the feature we are all still waiting for to appear in Ventures, which does not allow us to mod the game.
Thats the main reason I keep my game vanilla, besides participating in betas and the need for unmodified saves.

For these reasons I also do not like that at some point I will be rail roaded into this Crisis, and the inevitable slideshow on my laptop, when all I have ever wanted with the X Series of games since 2006 is to achieve peace throughout the X'verse by the end game stage. That for me is where I begin to enjoy the game.

I have not triggered the crisis yet thankfully, but as I understand what I have been reading we get an option to pay 5,000,000 .. and that is the end of it?
Personally I would be fine with that as a one time payment to supress the event, but there have been reports where people pay the 5M and later have to pay it again .. was that just a one-off bug instance or is that true for everyone who has experienced it?.

If it is a repeat payment forever after, that sucks. The crisis is not optional. Its a repeatedly optional PITA.

I dont think I need to worry though to be honest, I think it was Axeface recently said he produced 30 Asgards to trigger the event, I will never be producing that amount of hardware due to keeping the whole game optimal for my machines capabilities.

[Arisaya]

Over the years i have wasted lots of time trying to advocate for certain changes. Writing walls of text was fun but rarely ever successful, even when it was only about minor suggestions. People sometimes want to rationalize and ignore your valid argument and there is nothing you can do.

All that time is better spent on learning how to mod the game. Once you got the basics down it only takes about 5 min to disable the cue which triggers the crisis. Even adding a toggle button doesn't require actual programming skills. It’s possible for everyone unless you want to stay vanilla for Ventures.

Agreed. Another way is to create an own game.

But I have to point out - solely relying on 3rd party mods to solve problems is problematic in itself. How would a public beta work if most of the core player base is used to non-Vanilla?

Obviously, everyone in this niche market working on own games is even more problematic in some regards.

Plus there's the feature we are all still waiting for to appear in Ventures, which does not allow us to mod the game.
Thats the main reason I keep my game vanilla, besides participating in betas and the need for unmodified saves.

For these reasons I also do not like that at some point I will be rail roaded into this Crisis, and the inevitable slideshow on my laptop, when all I have ever wanted with the X Series of games since 2006 is to achieve peace throughout the X'verse by the end game stage. That for me is where I begin to enjoy the game.

I have not triggered the crisis yet thankfully, but as I understand what I have been reading we get an option to pay 5,000,000 .. and that is the end of it?
Personally I would be fine with that as a one time payment to supress the event, but there have been reports where people pay the 5M and later have to pay it again .. was that just a one-off bug instance or is that true for everyone who has experienced it?.

If it is a repeat payment forever after, that sucks. The crisis is not optional. Its a repeatedly optional PITA.

I dont think I need to worry though to be honest, I think it was Axeface recently said he produced 30 Asgards to trigger the event, I will never be producing that amount of hardware due to keeping the whole game optimal for my machines capabilities.

Its 500,000,000MCr to opt out right now, not 5,000,000.

I have no idea why it took axeface that many asgards to trigger the event - I had a far smaller fleet and it triggered immediately upon loading my old 6.0+ save into 7.0 beta 1. Something like 6-8 asgards, 3 raptors, 2 sharks, the erlking, some assorted destroyers (maybe 15-20). The asgards were by far the majority of my fleet's value too. Much of my military by shipcount was actually just L miners converted into picket patrol ships for defending my mining systems from kha'ak spawns so the blobs would not accumulate to the point they could start killing L miners OOS, but unless they are based on *orders*, they shouldn't have even counted.

[alt3rn1ty]

I have no idea why it took axeface that many asgards to trigger the event - I had a far smaller fleet and it triggered immediately upon loading my old 6.0+ save into 7.0 beta 1. Something like 6-8 asgards, 3 raptors, 2 sharks, the erlking, some assorted destroyers (maybe 15-20). The asgards were by far the majority of my fleet's value too. Much of my military by shipcount was actually just L miners converted into picket patrol ships for defending my mining systems from kha'ak spawns so the blobs would not accumulate to the point they could start killing L miners OOS, but unless they are based on *orders*, they shouldn't have even counted.

In that case thank you for the heads up, I think collectively if I had most of my fleets in the same sector I might be able to trigger it.
6 Asgard, Erlking, 2 fleets of 30 x Rays, 1 Shark fleet which has a few Rays and 40 fighters, a lone modded Ray and a lone modded Rattlesnake, 6 x Thresher fleets which have 4 Kuraokami or Hydra's backing them up, and 1 Guppy with (I forget what it has) .. And the supporting cast of L miners / traders for my 2 stations (Shipyard and PHQ Wharf).
If all gathered into one sector they may constitute enough to trigger events.
I shall endeavor to avoid doing that for now, it would just be an FPS slideshow for my machine.
7 Beta has improved in performance a lot, but depending on how big this party turned out to be on top of all my ships being in sector, the moment weapons start going off in anger I could probably count the FPS on my fingers.