Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions? - Might be inadequate cpu limitation

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Skoomer
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Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions? - Might be inadequate cpu limitation

Post by Skoomer » Sat, 26. Jan 19, 04:55

I know this is a rather common issue but I also know that a lot of people were able to solve it. Unfortunately no suggestion so far has helped me. I play with 8-15fps on stations, 20fps on the map and when I'm lucky 30-40fps in space. It's playable but it's a pain.

My system
  • GTX 980ti
  • Intel i7 870 2.93GHz (Quad Core)
  • 16GB RAM (DDR3)
  • Windows 10
  • Resolution 3840x2160
  • Using an Samsung SSD for this game.
  • Playing the Steam version
  • I have 3 Monitors connected but only use my main 4k one for gaming.
___________________

Although my CPU isn't the best, it's on 50% capacity max when playing (checked all cores, they're well distributed.) My GPU is on 30-40% capacity. My whole system only uses 9gb of ram when playing of my 16. I can play Star Citizen Port Olisar with 20-30fps on very high in 4k, so I can't imagine my system is the problem.

Stuff I already tried
  • Reducing the resolution. No performance impact whatsoever.
  • I played with the ingame options a thousand times. No ingame setting really impacts my fps. I can set everything to low and get 3-4 fps more than on high. Setting that seem to impact my game the most is SSAO and AA.
  • I configured the Nvidia Control Panel 3D settings, mainly to disable Vsync but tried everything else as well. Also used Nvidia Inspector to do the same.
  • Tried several old Nvidia drivers from september, october, november, december and the most recent one.
  • Also uninstalled all graphic drivers with DDU in safe mode to clean re-install the drivers.
  • Using Tripple Buffer VSync (tried all options as I can't disable it without the Nvidia control panel)
  • Uninstalled the Nvidia HD Audio Driver as audio drivers were the issues for some people.
  • Also disabled all audio deviced that I don't use.
  • Worshiped Cthulhu
  • Verifed integrity of game files
  • Closing all unnecessary backgroup tasks
  • Disabling both my other displays while playing
  • Made sure that no Shadowplay or other software is enabled that could record in the background. Also the build-in Windows 10 one, yes.
  • Probably a couple of more things given that I spent more time trying to solve that problem more than actually playing the game.

I didn't play the game before 1.5 so I have no reference to earlier versions.

Anyway, I really hope I can brainstorm with some of you guys! Would really make my day/week/month to have playable framerates in stations and on the map!

Alan Phipps
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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions?

Post by Alan Phipps » Sat, 26. Jan 19, 13:29

Please post or upload and link your current DxDiag so that we can see what your system is up to.
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Skoomer
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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions?

Post by Skoomer » Sat, 26. Jan 19, 20:02

Alan Phipps wrote:
Sat, 26. Jan 19, 13:29
Please post or upload and link your current DxDiag so that we can see what your system is up to.
Sure! Here you go: https://pastebin.com/bqLCDmLM

Alan Phipps
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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions?

Post by Alan Phipps » Sat, 26. Jan 19, 20:28

Despite what you said in your OP, by looking at the DxDiag I see that you have 3 different sound devices and drivers still going at the same time, and two of those have quite outdated drivers that cannot possibly be optimised for current Win10 builds. I would disable whatever you do not use in Device Manager, Sound/Audio Devices (right-click on a device for an enable/disable pop-up) - or unplug the device if USB. Obviously make sure that whatever devices you keep have fully updated Win10 drivers.

I also see that you have Windows Error Reporting disabled and so I cannot see any useful error messages that might otherwise have been generated.

Does your cpu have a boost/turbo function to take it above the stock 2.93 GHz on gaming demand, and is it enabled for XR etc? Conversely, do you have any cpu protective throttling enabled?
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Skoomer
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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions?

Post by Skoomer » Sat, 26. Jan 19, 20:51

Thanks for the quick reply! I try to get the Error Reporting to get working again and post the DXDiag again. As of sound drivers, I just recently uninstalled all old drivers with DDU, I thought I got them all. The only non-conventional sound "devices" I'm using is a Virtual-Audio-Cable for video-recording. Here you can see all my activated sound devices: https://imgur.com/a/W8mRy0t
I'm not sure what else I could uninstall?

My CPU has a turbo mode up to 3.2ghz enabled and uses it while playing as you can see here: https://i.imgur.com/01WAIsT.jpg
No CPU throttling is enabled.

With all that being said: I now downloaded the 1.6 Beta and get better fps on the station (up to 24!). But I started a new game and will have to wait until the economy gets working a bit more. If it turns out that the high fps are just because of the new game, I'll try to get the Windows Error Reporting going and post it here.

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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions?

Post by Alan Phipps » Sat, 26. Jan 19, 21:50

OK, good luck and I hope 1.60 works out for you.
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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions?

Post by Skoomer » Sat, 26. Jan 19, 23:05

Alan Phipps wrote:
Sat, 26. Jan 19, 21:50
OK, good luck and I hope 1.60 works out for you.
Okay so: I think I'm actually having a minor performance improvement but still far less fps than I'd expect.

Long Version:
So I made two tests with two starts that evolved differently. Started a new standard game, gave myself SETA with a cheat Mod (only mod activated) and was in the Wharf in Black Hole Sun. Got about 24fps on station with ships flying in and out, etc. I had about 50-60fps by just flying through space. I also used the cheat mod to uncover the whole map.
Then I went to Argon Prime and activated SETA for about 30mins. Frames went down in space to about 30-40fps and in the Wharf to 15fps. (Still better than previously)
I spawned in a fleet (20 fighters) and attacked the wharf. Frames dropped to about 5-10fps. Almost unplayable, but I guess that's a stress test anyway.

Next restart I started again in Black Hole Sun, got myself a SETA and again waited about 30mins. But I stayed in Black Hole Sun and basically repeated the same steps (just wanted to see if another randomized start impacts performance. But I basically got the same results.

So while performance improved slightly, as soon as the game has a running economy the fps on the station are uncomfortable low and basically unbearable in a fight. I also tested another fight with only 10 fighters against a Wharf which had the same results. As soon as there is a lot of stuff going on, frames drop immensely.

Short Version:
New Game Performance:
Wharf - 24fps
Space - 50-60fps

Mid-Game Performance:
Wharf: 15fps
Space: 30-40fps
Battle: 5-8fps

Alright, so I still think my problem persists, so here is my new DxDiag with windows reporting enabled. (Let me know if it worked)
https://pastebin.com/aXnartYq

Alan Phipps
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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions?

Post by Alan Phipps » Sun, 27. Jan 19, 11:16

Still no errors reported in the DxDiag, but that's probably to be expected if you only just enabled it.
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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions?

Post by Skoomer » Sun, 27. Jan 19, 19:14

Alan Phipps wrote:
Sun, 27. Jan 19, 11:16
Still no errors reported in the DxDiag, but that's probably to be expected if you only just enabled it.
My god I apolozize. I just realized I ended up posting this in the X Rebirth and not in the X4 Foundations technical support page. So my problems aren't even XR related!
Can you move this thread or shall I just reopen it up?

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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions?

Post by Alan Phipps » Sun, 27. Jan 19, 21:12

Heh, moved. I missed it too even though we were both talking about 1.60 beta! Technically, the questions would have been the same anyway. :wink:
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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions?

Post by CBJ » Sun, 27. Jan 19, 21:23

Just so that you are aware, your CPU is actually somewhat below even the minimum requirement for X4. Since the game is normally CPU-bound, the performance you are seeing is actually better than I would have expected. Note that the CPU utilisation numbers reported by Windows are not a particularly good measure of what is actually limiting performance.

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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions?

Post by Skoomer » Sun, 27. Jan 19, 22:06

CBJ wrote:
Sun, 27. Jan 19, 21:23
Just so that you are aware, your CPU is actually somewhat below even the minimum requirement for X4. Since the game is normally CPU-bound, the performance you are seeing is actually better than I would have expected. Note that the CPU utilisation numbers reported by Windows are not a particularly good measure of what is actually limiting performance.
Thanks for the answer! I am aware that my CPU is below the minimum although I was trusting the Winodws measurements and given that it overclocks to 3.20GHz I thought the issue would be somewhere else. But maybe that's just it!

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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions?

Post by Chimerak » Mon, 28. Jan 19, 03:31

You want to play with this rig in 4K resolution? I think thats the main reason for your low FPS, i have i7 8700K (4.8GHz all cores sync) and RTX 2070, im playing in full hd and sometimes i drop to 35 FPS (stations) and 45 FPS (space), ofc most of the time im playing on solid 60 FPS, but even with my rig i wouldnt try 4K, really dont even try 4K gaming if you dont have 1080ti or 2080 and at least i5 8400 or ryzen 1600 - 2600.

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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions? - Might be inadequate cpu limitation

Post by maxavius » Thu, 28. Feb 19, 02:52

Hello

I have a similar system to OP

i7 2600k @4.0Ghz
Gtx 970 gigabyte G1
16MB RAM
Samsung 860 EVO

I experience similar performance issues. My main save is from release version. I own about 8-10 mining ships ,2 traders. My station consists of 3 modules only. Not much .
My questions to the devs are. Why is this game render things so strangely. If I'm on a station , even in a closed off room with no windows . it seems to be rendering everything in the vicinity anyway. My specs are past Minimum and i can't seem to get above 17FPS in most stations at this point. even though I'm the only one there. Now I've heard other players use the " you need a strong CPU" argument over and over. Yet other people with better CPU'S and latest GPU'S are also running pretty slow .If one of the devs could comment on what makes X4 so much more complicated than say rebirth that would justify this poor performance. And why do Graphics setting have absolutely no effect on performance aside from AA?
Will there be changes to or additional graphics settings to help those closer to minimum requirements?
Also , is this just a matter of needing more time to optimize or should i just give up now on one of my favorite franchises since the 90's because i refuse to upgrade for one game which IMHO shouldn't run this horribly.

The game runs amazing on a new save. but from what i have read , it will only take time before it becomes a slide show.
Thanks for reading my rant , on a side note i would like to thank the devs for all their hard work so far and hope to hear from you soon.


Edit (add dxdiag): https://pastebin.com/dLaksw89

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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions? - Might be inadequate cpu limitation

Post by CBJ » Thu, 28. Feb 19, 09:23

Problems with performance on stations in particular are sometimes associated with sound driver issues. NVIDIA sound drivers in particular suffer from this. Make sure that your on-board sound drivers are up to date and disable other devices to see if that helps.

maxavius
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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions? - Might be inadequate cpu limitation

Post by maxavius » Thu, 28. Feb 19, 11:13

CBJ

I installed the newset drivers from Realtek and disabled the NVIDIA devices in device manager. Tested from same save and no change still 17fps , jumps to 29fps if i simply press undock.
I also tried uninstalling the NVIDIA devices and same result.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions? - Might be inadequate cpu limitation

Post by Kritikal » Thu, 28. Feb 19, 13:44

I'd probably say the issue is your 10 year old CPU (manufactured in 2009). You're only getting half the bus speed (gigatransfers/sec) of a Haswell (e.g. 4790k), and less than a third of the bus speed of a Coffee Lake (e.g. 8700k). Changing graphics settings won't improve your FPS because your CPU is the bottleneck simulating the world in the background, and your GPU is not under max load.

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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions? - Might be inadequate cpu limitation

Post by maxavius » Sat, 2. Mar 19, 02:15

:lol: I'd probably say you're wrong friend. I run all latest games at minimum 50 fps. And yes also Sims heavy dependent on Cpu . And since the new 2.0 patch I have seen some improvement. What I'm trying to troubleshoot here with the debs is some further improvements to hopefully address other outstanding bugs.

It simply doesn't make sense that docking and undocking should cost 10Fps. Or that there is little to no culling happening in stations. Further more people with some of the more recent cpus also see little to no difference when changing settings.debunking your theory of Cpu bottleneck.Especially since i get 50-60 fps in space even with lots of asteroids , ships and rocks around, simulation economy or AI doesn't magically stop when i undock. And it's i7 2600k Manufactured in 2011. One of the most preferred OC cpu's simply because of their large dye and amazing overclock-ability and simply how future proof it ended up being for gaming. You must be referring to Op's specs not mine , which clearly didn't read but came on here to boast about your newer hardware and berate mine , congrats you googled some specs and did nothing to help.

I appriciate your input regarding bus speeds etc. But this is not 3dsmax or some other heavy duty software. It's x4

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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions? - Might be inadequate cpu limitation

Post by Dani_Gecko » Sat, 2. Mar 19, 12:55

About the low FPS drop on stations...
maxavius wrote:
Sat, 2. Mar 19, 02:15
:lol: I'd probably say you're wrong friend. I run all latest games at minimum 50 fps. [...]
When I pre-ordered X4 I was planing to use my old processor - a AMD FX 6350 @3.8GHz OC together with 16 GB DDR3 @1600 MHz OC. I got FPS at stations at around 1 or below... basically i couldn't move - not even turn faster than a windows picture slide show. Even though I got my EVGA GTX 1070 FTW working the game in open space at about 60FPS. I think comparing the bus width (and back then Intel had a hard time to get the clocks of the FSB up above 1000 MHz where AMD already had introduced HT 2.0 with about 2500 MHz FSB clock), it is reasonable to accuse the older hardware (i.e. chip set, bus clocks) for your FPS drop on docking at stations. Don't forget, no other game primarily uses Vulkan and some strange incidents should be expected. Especially with hardware originating from before the general development and implementation of a end-user version of Vulkan.

Now - since my upgrade to my new CPU (see below) the game runs like a charm. No FPS dip whatsoever. If I unlock it, it runs at theoretical 100 FPS in open space on a map about 50h in the game. Heavy asteroid fields...80 FPS (with rare and short dips to 40), Stations... 90FPS, heavy Space battles... 70FPS. Usually I keep it locked at 60 because my old EIZO FS2333 can't display more as of hardware limitations of a 60 Hz screen. I plan to get a new 260 Hz monitor with Nvidia compatible free-sync. We'll see about that one then.

I want to tell this story to show, even though my GPU was the same before and now, changing my CPU not only increased FPS in general but also fixed the problem of any noticeable change in FPS while docking or walking on a station.
CASE: Obsidian 750D | PSU: EVGA 750 G3 | BOARD: MSI B450 Carbon | CPU: AMD Ryzen 2600X | GPU: EVGA GTX 3080 FTW Ultra | RAM: 2x8 GB Corsair LPX DDR4 @2666 MHz
Vulkaninfo and DxDiag

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Re: Unfixable performance issues. Tried everything - Who has suggestions? - Might be inadequate cpu limitation

Post by maxavius » Sun, 10. Mar 19, 11:50

All your info in your reply is very interesting and valid to a degree.
A quick look on Youtube or through reviews and you can see that people with i9 9900k w/ 2080Ti are also getting 40FPS in station.
All i'm saying is there is such a heavy system requirement for a reason , whether it's Vulcan . Whether it's something in the way the game allows you to switch to distant ships far away.
Or just poor optimization or bugs. This game is not that different than say X rebirth as far as simulating many ships/objects economy. Frankly graphics wise Rebirth looks better.

I would happily run out and buy a new Mobo an i9 9900k , new RAM when and if my current hardware is clearly under performing but not for a 15 to 25FPS boost in stations !
Something else is wrong with this X game. Is this the same engine or new?
Or is it just a switch to Vulkan.

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