I heard previously that ordering your capital ships to attack enemies was a mixed bag. I think most people report good success being out of system while giving capital ships orders. I have put in system combat to the test and found it to be very broken. The AI just does not handle capital on capital and capital on station combat well at all. I have a save where it is one Xenon K vs one Syn, one Behemoth, and one Rattlesnake. Three destroyers vs one.
Just ordering all three to attack the K (they were pre-positioned so they could all attack at once from the same distance but different angles) they all got destroyed without doing any damage to the hull of the K.
I reloaded and manually intervened by disabling all turrets and engines on the K with my corvette. Basically left a sitting duck K for the destroyers to beat on. They approached the K, hitting it with large turrets, but refused to use main guns. They then became distracted by a couple of fighers, choosing to prioritize them over the K. Once the fighters were gone, they circled the K without firing a shot. I removed their orders, put all large turrets on "Attack Capital Ships" and re-ordered them to attack the K. All engaged travel drive to move away from the K (to about 10k range) turned around, and sat there doing nothing. See the screenshot of my Syn sitting there looking at the poor stranded K behind me, doing absolutely nothing. https://imgur.com/a/a5U3Xk5
I have the save file with this scenario so devs may test to see how the AI reacts. I am using no mods, full vanilla game with all DLC.
Capital Ship combat: In system combat with capital ships is quite broken - Explanation + an improvement coming.
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Alan Phipps
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Re: Capital Ship combat: In system combat with captial ships is quite broken
[A bit OT] Vanilla 6.00 HF3 all DLC: Interestingly I today watched nearby IS a big 3-way fleet furball AI battle in Hatikvah's Choice between 3 Xenon Ks with hordes of their fighters, a TER Intervention Corps fleet with an Asgard, 2 Tokyo and loads of fighters, and 2 ARG Behemoths on patrol there - plus loads of trade ships of all sizes caught up in the battle.
The final casualties were all Xenon ships, 1 Tokyo, a very crippled Asgard, countless fighters, 1 Behemoth, and countless trade ships. The capital fighting was actually quite clever and entertaining to watch. Although not once did the Asgard use its main weapon, all TER capitals used their other main battery guns. There was an element of capitals trying to engage fighters that had attacked them. The battlefield was mainly ruled by turrets and fighters. Quite a few missiles were launched at the Ks too. The loot coillection afterwards was spectacular. [/A bit OT]
The final casualties were all Xenon ships, 1 Tokyo, a very crippled Asgard, countless fighters, 1 Behemoth, and countless trade ships. The capital fighting was actually quite clever and entertaining to watch. Although not once did the Asgard use its main weapon, all TER capitals used their other main battery guns. There was an element of capitals trying to engage fighters that had attacked them. The battlefield was mainly ruled by turrets and fighters. Quite a few missiles were launched at the Ks too. The loot coillection afterwards was spectacular. [/A bit OT]
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Re: Capital Ship combat: In system combat with captial ships is quite broken
Please don't wait to be asked before uploading a save. It just wastes your time not getting an answer and ours having to request it.
Re: Capital Ship combat: In system combat with captial ships is quite broken
Apologies for the delay, I was unsure how you wanted the file to be delivered. Here is a gdrive link to download:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11GiHj ... sp=sharing
Re: Capital Ship combat: In system combat with captial ships is quite broken
A couple more notes based on my observations:
1. Capital ships seem to have a lot of difficulty engaging large targets (other capitals or stations) not on their same plane of space. If the large target is above or below, or the target axis is skewed, your capital ships seem to try to align with the targets x-axis, but have difficulty getting into position.
2. Capital ships seem to keep trying to re-align even when they have reached firing range. They either keep moving too close to targets (stations), resulting in your capitals getting destroyed, or they stay at range, and fire main guns, but keep pitching up and down, resulting in a "spray" of fire and many shots missing the target. I would expect the AI to move to range of main guns > point at target > stop all movement > fire main batteries.
3. Capitals many times prioritize fighters. If there is a larger more dangerous target, it should be focused on that so main guns can fire on it. I would expect turrets should have independent logic to engage smaller targets.
1. Capital ships seem to have a lot of difficulty engaging large targets (other capitals or stations) not on their same plane of space. If the large target is above or below, or the target axis is skewed, your capital ships seem to try to align with the targets x-axis, but have difficulty getting into position.
2. Capital ships seem to keep trying to re-align even when they have reached firing range. They either keep moving too close to targets (stations), resulting in your capitals getting destroyed, or they stay at range, and fire main guns, but keep pitching up and down, resulting in a "spray" of fire and many shots missing the target. I would expect the AI to move to range of main guns > point at target > stop all movement > fire main batteries.
3. Capitals many times prioritize fighters. If there is a larger more dangerous target, it should be focused on that so main guns can fire on it. I would expect turrets should have independent logic to engage smaller targets.
Re: Capital Ship combat: In system combat with captial ships is quite broken
One more item, I have recorded the capital ship behavior when they attack a station from above or below the target plane. The capital ship frequently "headbobs" while shooting main guns. I parked my corvette next to my destroyer so i would "travel with" the destroyer. It clearly illustrates one of the issues captials have with in system combat.
https://youtu.be/OeFl-c2cacg
https://youtu.be/OeFl-c2cacg
Re: Capital Ship combat: In system combat with captial ships is quite broken
Your capital ships have orders to disable their target, so they're avoiding use of main guns so as to avoid blowing up their target and moving more than usual to engage with turrets.
3 isn't apparent in the save since there are no small targets in this battle. Whether they're allowed to switch targets and how they prioritize depends on the order given to them.
That said, I did notice ships turning more than they ought to when they're given an order to actually destroy their target. Improvement for that should be in a future update.
They're not doing 1 and 2 at all.Gungnr wrote: ↑Thu, 11. May 23, 16:31A couple more notes based on my observations:
1. Capital ships seem to have a lot of difficulty engaging large targets (other capitals or stations) not on their same plane of space. If the large target is above or below, or the target axis is skewed, your capital ships seem to try to align with the targets x-axis, but have difficulty getting into position.
2. Capital ships seem to keep trying to re-align even when they have reached firing range. They either keep moving too close to targets (stations), resulting in your capitals getting destroyed, or they stay at range, and fire main guns, but keep pitching up and down, resulting in a "spray" of fire and many shots missing the target. I would expect the AI to move to range of main guns > point at target > stop all movement > fire main batteries.
3. Capitals many times prioritize fighters. If there is a larger more dangerous target, it should be focused on that so main guns can fire on it. I would expect turrets should have independent logic to engage smaller targets.
3 isn't apparent in the save since there are no small targets in this battle. Whether they're allowed to switch targets and how they prioritize depends on the order given to them.
That said, I did notice ships turning more than they ought to when they're given an order to actually destroy their target. Improvement for that should be in a future update.
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alfredodeballa
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Re: Capital Ship combat: In system combat with capital ships is quite broken - Explanation + an improvement coming.
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