[OLD] XRSGE - Galaxy REMAKE

[Realspace]

EDIT:
The mod is ready, please move to this discussion:
viewtopic.php?f=181&t=427585


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I start a new topic, because I've gone further in the project.

I am remaking the vanilla galaxy but instead of adding clusters, as other have already done (se no need of more), I am expanding the vanilla map INTERNALLY.
I don't exclude adding some more cluster but I think it will not be necessary

Indeed the vanilla layout is very limited in comparison with what one can do inside EACH cluster, not to mention that the connections and layouts look very casual

Simply speaking, I am remaking a galaxy more in the way Rebirth is, with more logical connections aka superhighways inside each cluster.
I also follow the same philosophy I used in my Farnham's Legacy MOD (see signature), which further expands the idea of having multiple sectors of the same planetary system (alpha, beta etc.) instead of random poetic names that don't follow any logical planetary layout
So now every cluster has at least two sectors, connected by highways. Here an early example (but I've done many more clusters already):




Btw after experimenting with added sectors, I found out an unexpected result, i.e. you can have more than only 3 sectors in each cluster
Here is new Grand Exchange:

https://i.ibb.co/DKPpMKB/grandexchange.jpg

I think this opens up a lot of opportunities to have sectors look as planetary systems. Maybe I'll go further and use more than only 2 sectors for each, will see...

Up to now I've already re-worked a lot of sectors, by moving planets (and redone in parallel with my other mod 'stars'), expecially new gas giants.
So not only a more logical layout, I also rework every cluster to look unique, not a bland one planet + one moon.

For instance in Second contact I added a gas giant and the planetoid is an earth-like moon orbiting it. So every sector either coincides with close orbit of a planetoid/moon or with a Lagrange point towards the central giant.
Using PARENTED multi-CLUSTERS is very nice because one can change the models for close or low orbit.

I move gates accordingly but also trying to make sectors have a role, so f.i. no more gates in the CORE ORBITAL sector! That thing really spoils immersion...gates are either in the Lagrange points or close to some moon, not in the low orbit of the main planet..

Also I am changing some gates into accelerators, in order to further expand the planetary system into proper multi-planet system (at least, if not a whole solar system).
I'd like to have more clusters redone in the way of Second Contact.

This mod pairs very well with my Engine's Mod (and with Stars Mod of course) because travel is managed by super-highways and there are NO highways. With the engine's mod, accelerations are not instantaneous as in vanilla, travel too is longer. So Sectors literally EXPAND even if I don't move things apart, because travel time is longer, not the distances

[Realspace]

Here I list the technical problems I face to proceed in the development. Maybe someone can help me

1) Cluster's border (hexagon's bold border) does not change into semi-transparent/invisible when you change the gates into accelerators, neither if I change the cluster's name accordingly to the (new) parental one *solved

2) I change the names in mapdefaults.xml using the T lines already existing, so did not create a new T file up to now. New (but existing) names are correctly translated in holo-map but Betty does not speaks them *solved

3) In multi-sectors, the skybox ends STRETCHED somewhere. It is a vanilla issue, the skybox mesh is too small *solved

4) setting ownership of a sector to a faction as default for any start. I added new sectors to every system, how to assign them to a specific faction?

[st3k]

Wow, looking forward to try it.
Thank you.

[tomchk]

Yep, 4 sectors per cluster work well, but above that you get UI issues. I think some of my videos showed this in the WIP XR port, but I don't know where. Best of luck with this cool work!

[Realspace]

Yep, 4 sectors per cluster work well, but above that you get UI issues. I think some of my videos showed this in the WIP XR port, but I don't know where. Best of luck with this cool work!

Thank you, you spared me hours of trial and error looking for making a 5 or 6 sector-cluster work
Not knowing the limit...btw 4 is a good layout, expecially if we can make parented clusters work (i.e. no thick borders in the hex) so they are many more.

[wanderer]

Played a little with your STAR mod, very nice.

Re your changes (for this upcoming mod) of the X4 universe - One point I think you should have an eye for - the sector sizes.

Well it makes (from my point of view) no sense to have secors with roughly 150-200km in diameter (the starting hexagon). In comparison - thats not even the distance between Würselen (home of Egosoft) - Frankfurt. Thats fine for a action packed playstyle, but space is big. I recommend to make them bigger.

There (was) a mod LargerUniverse (Nexus: https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations ... posts&BH=0) (its now invisible, it used the X4-Customizer to change the sizes to 10 times the original sector size). For me it is working, well some minor problems occured (eg. high velocity race for research may now harder, but still winnable).

Also, when you use a custom game start you can switch of highways. Hope this will still be available.

[Realspace]

Thank you, yes I do agree. I am following another way thou. Expanding sectors trough multiple sectors and superhighways (but removed all zone hways).
Consider that what now is in a single sector will be expanded upon 3-4 sectors (4 is max). Then on top of this, my other mod makes accelerations not instant. You'd be surprised to see how larger the universe look when the ship does not accelerate in a blink but takes its time (mod in signature).
Then I'll probably at least move all gates 2/3x far away. I am looking for a good illusion of vastness without making things too boring. I work on the logic of space too, so every sector is either a planet's orbit or a lagrange point.

Simply enlarging every sector, as they are randomly conceived now, to even 10x, without touching layouts, space's logic and ship's behaviour, makes things only more tedious, to me, not immersive
If things still will be too close, after testing and feedback, making zones more far away is a matter of half a day mdding work.

I am going quite fast, only the two small issues remains, enlarging the skybox to not be stretched in multi-sectors (but my Stars mod already makes them smaller) and changing the cluster's border.

I am having two ideas to remake the galaxy map. Since with this mod one cluster/one sector will be no more, I'd like to either:
1) completely remove the hexagon's border of ALL clusters (only sector's border remaining visible)
2) Making cluster's hexagons round (as they were in Rebirth), while sectors can remain hexagon

[DeadAirRT]

You can try the system attribute in mapdefaults to make the border continuous around multiple clusters

[Realspace]

You can try the system attribute in mapdefaults to make the border continuous around multiple clusters

Thank you! That makes a small but significant improvement I was missing.

In the meantime I found also another solution, i.e. removing the cluster (sectors remain). The result is... interesting
Take a look:




When finished, all sectors will be multiple, i.e. only the small ones of this image
Still I want to implement both solutions, then see what fits best

Do you have in mind any issue that can occur when the cluster (not sectors) is invisible?

[DeadAirRT]

It depends on how you made them invisible.

[Realspace]

It depends on how you made them invisible.

I set cluster's width to zero

[DeadAirRT]

It depends on how you made them invisible.

I set the border-size to zero

Oh that should be fine.

[Realspace]

This is what happens only 500.000km from the center of a cluster...you are out of the skybox, already



I consider this a bug because you can see the deformation of the skybox at 80.000km already, what happens in many sectors in vanilla game.

This thing is the last issue I can't resolve. I've managed to make a lot of multi-sectors but am limited about how far they can be from the center.

Changing the max size of meshes in the cluster_xx.xml does nothing.
My last hope was that by enlarging each mesh (.xmf) of stars etc. this can be solved.

I could import a cluster in Blender, then set a scale of 100x to every mesh, then exported to .dae and used the converter to make the xmf's


Problem remains, skybox is too small
Maybe I did not enlarge the meshes properly, don't know.

Anybody can help?

edit:
I DID IT!
Had to change the nodes in Notepad++ but it works...

HERE IT IS! 500.000KW AWAY AND THE SKY HAS NOT FALLEN APART!
As I suspected, the meshes are too small. Seems I can't resize in Blender but found a way by editing the .dae in notepad++


This opens a nice opportunity to enlarge the scenery, having superhighways going to distant points deep in space, even two planets could be connected (in a 1/10 scale)
Also, even in closer distances, the distorted skybox is no more!

Here are the planet and moon you see in the distance, in the above picture. Now each in close distance, all inside THE SAME CLUSTER, connected by superhw's



...btw, this is my newly made Scale Plate Green

[Taylor2008]

Impressive!!
It is wonderfull , that you do this.
Thank you !!

[Realspace]

Thank you, this was the last problem I hope.
Mute betty is too but I am confident it will be easy to solve, still have not checked properly, texts will be the last thing I do.

Unluckly this thing will take me a week at least (I already processed 20 clusters sofar), but those small skyboxes were really the ugliest immersion-breaking thing in the game, modded or not, happy I found a way to get rid..
Thereafter I can continue with galaxy building, multiple highways, etc.

[DeadAirRT]

Thank you, this was the last problem I hope.
Mute betty is too but I am confident it will be easy to solve, still have not checked properly, texts will be the last thing I do.

Unluckly this thing will take me a week at least (I already processed 20 clusters sofar), but those small skyboxes were really the ugliest immersion-breaking thing in the game, modded or not, happy I found a way to get rid..
Thereafter I can continue with galaxy building, multiple highways, etc.

So there is probably a way to make the skybox bigger. It is probably easier to mod in a new sphere than to adjust an existing one. I am probably going to try adding in one a bit closer than vanilla one to see if i can implement a custom skybox that way since the uv on vanilla is too difficult to make work properly.

Also, what are you trying to have Betty say? Words already in game or custom?

[MarcusInVR]

Impressive indeed.

Do you have a timeline when we can get our hands on this gem of a mod?

[Realspace]

Thank you, this was the last problem I hope.
Mute betty is too but I am confident it will be easy to solve, still have not checked properly, texts will be the last thing I do.

Unluckly this thing will take me a week at least (I already processed 20 clusters sofar), but those small skyboxes were really the ugliest immersion-breaking thing in the game, modded or not, happy I found a way to get rid..
Thereafter I can continue with galaxy building, multiple highways, etc.

So there is probably a way to make the skybox bigger. It is probably easier to mod in a new sphere than to adjust an existing one. I am probably going to try adding in one a bit closer than vanilla one to see if i can implement a custom skybox that way since the uv on vanilla is too difficult to make work properly.

Also, what are you trying to have Betty say? Words already in game or custom?

Yes doing new skyboxes was my first idea, given how ...contort it was to modify existing ones. But I found a way and after some practice I've redone already the base 50 clusters plus terran's. In a day I will finish Split's too so can go on on galaxy remake doing lagrange points deep in space. They are very immersive, see the small planet far away, gates in deep space, then the super-hws bring you close.

To make the enlargement I import clusters in blender (the plugin works only to import), remove the meshes I don't need, then export as dae, open in notepad++, change the nodes by fixed increments 1000x, run the XrConverter, take the -lod that are generated in the cluster's folder, use in the mod's folder...and it works! I've tried up to 1.000.000 km far away and they are still ok, maybe some flickering in some nebulae. But honestly that's not needed, at 300.000km planets are already very small so the scenery changes a lot, no need to make more. Being them multi-sectors, I don't thing the engine has any problem managing the calculation, it is the whole sector that is far away in relation to the backdrop, not the zones, so no real distances to calculate

Don't waste time doing new boxes, unless you want to do for creativity bc I'll soon release the mod's prototype and you can use the clusters only from it, they cover all vanilla sectors. Since I could eventually change the references in each mesh I could also make a material diff for each nebula (in vanilla they use all the same material, together with stars, so regulating light for each was impossible), so I made very dim ones out of those too-bright ones in vanilla, and lowered all in general in my other (generalist) mod "Stars". So now backgrounds are very close to my modded X3..dark and deep not bright and close as in vanilla.

Hope we can share resources to spare time, f.i. I will ask you maybe to write the god and jobs for new sectors. They will be 3x vanilla i.e. 3/4 for each cluster out of 1/2 of now

Betty is mute. I use texts from vanilla 001, use the codes in the mapedefaults, they regularly show in the map as written text but Betty does not tell them when entering a sector. I still have not seen this thing, maybe is a stupid thing

Impressive indeed.

Do you have a timeline when we can get our hands on this gem of a mod?

I hope I can release a prototype within a couple of weeks. Mean all the base-game sectors, then will do Split's and Terran's later. That requires a new game' start, so I wanted to complete all the map, but for trying it and feedbacks maybe..

[DeadAirRT]

I don't plan on adjusting my mods for this because it's pretty much gone the opposite of my ideal and would require a complete rework of my mods that change universe balance. I am not a fan of superhighways or multi sector clusters.This seems very much a form over function mod from my viewpoint but that is only because we all have different priorities. I'm not trying to hate or anything; if you have any questions or need help figuring out stuff, let me know.

[Realspace]

That's exactly the idea, an overhaul of general galaxy form (this mod), cosmetics (Stars mod), base physics for ship (my REM mod). I am working on the idea to set a ground that hopefully others can/wish to use for their mods

I don't mind we have 30 or 300 ships if they basically move with the same weird physics. So don't mind 50 or 500 sectors if all look casual gates in the middle of somewhere instead of a precise logic of orbital systems.

I work on the immersion part, I think I can give a lot on this. But game's mechanics, economy, etc which is the other important part to make a game good, well that's not in my time and aim now. Nor I have expertise on that. I hope in some help in the future....

Btw I have just finished remaking skyboxes for ALL clusters, all skyboxes are 1000x larger now