[OLD] XRSGE - Galaxy REMAKE

[DeadAirRT]

Thank you, this was the last problem I hope.
Mute betty is too but I am confident it will be easy to solve, still have not checked properly, texts will be the last thing I do.

Unluckly this thing will take me a week at least (I already processed 20 clusters sofar), but those small skyboxes were really the ugliest immersion-breaking thing in the game, modded or not, happy I found a way to get rid..
Thereafter I can continue with galaxy building, multiple highways, etc.

So there is probably a way to make the skybox bigger. It is probably easier to mod in a new sphere than to adjust an existing one. I am probably going to try adding in one a bit closer than vanilla one to see if i can implement a custom skybox that way since the uv on vanilla is too difficult to make work properly.

Also, what are you trying to have Betty say? Words already in game or custom?

[MarcusInVR]

Impressive indeed.

Do you have a timeline when we can get our hands on this gem of a mod?

[Realspace]

Thank you, this was the last problem I hope.
Mute betty is too but I am confident it will be easy to solve, still have not checked properly, texts will be the last thing I do.

Unluckly this thing will take me a week at least (I already processed 20 clusters sofar), but those small skyboxes were really the ugliest immersion-breaking thing in the game, modded or not, happy I found a way to get rid..
Thereafter I can continue with galaxy building, multiple highways, etc.

So there is probably a way to make the skybox bigger. It is probably easier to mod in a new sphere than to adjust an existing one. I am probably going to try adding in one a bit closer than vanilla one to see if i can implement a custom skybox that way since the uv on vanilla is too difficult to make work properly.

Also, what are you trying to have Betty say? Words already in game or custom?

Yes doing new skyboxes was my first idea, given how ...contort it was to modify existing ones. But I found a way and after some practice I've redone already the base 50 clusters plus terran's. In a day I will finish Split's too so can go on on galaxy remake doing lagrange points deep in space. They are very immersive, see the small planet far away, gates in deep space, then the super-hws bring you close.

To make the enlargement I import clusters in blender (the plugin works only to import), remove the meshes I don't need, then export as dae, open in notepad++, change the nodes by fixed increments 1000x, run the XrConverter, take the -lod that are generated in the cluster's folder, use in the mod's folder...and it works! I've tried up to 1.000.000 km far away and they are still ok, maybe some flickering in some nebulae. But honestly that's not needed, at 300.000km planets are already very small so the scenery changes a lot, no need to make more. Being them multi-sectors, I don't thing the engine has any problem managing the calculation, it is the whole sector that is far away in relation to the backdrop, not the zones, so no real distances to calculate

Don't waste time doing new boxes, unless you want to do for creativity bc I'll soon release the mod's prototype and you can use the clusters only from it, they cover all vanilla sectors. Since I could eventually change the references in each mesh I could also make a material diff for each nebula (in vanilla they use all the same material, together with stars, so regulating light for each was impossible), so I made very dim ones out of those too-bright ones in vanilla, and lowered all in general in my other (generalist) mod "Stars". So now backgrounds are very close to my modded X3..dark and deep not bright and close as in vanilla.

Hope we can share resources to spare time, f.i. I will ask you maybe to write the god and jobs for new sectors. They will be 3x vanilla i.e. 3/4 for each cluster out of 1/2 of now

Betty is mute. I use texts from vanilla 001, use the codes in the mapedefaults, they regularly show in the map as written text but Betty does not tell them when entering a sector. I still have not seen this thing, maybe is a stupid thing

Impressive indeed.

Do you have a timeline when we can get our hands on this gem of a mod?

I hope I can release a prototype within a couple of weeks. Mean all the base-game sectors, then will do Split's and Terran's later. That requires a new game' start, so I wanted to complete all the map, but for trying it and feedbacks maybe..

[DeadAirRT]

I don't plan on adjusting my mods for this because it's pretty much gone the opposite of my ideal and would require a complete rework of my mods that change universe balance. I am not a fan of superhighways or multi sector clusters.This seems very much a form over function mod from my viewpoint but that is only because we all have different priorities. I'm not trying to hate or anything; if you have any questions or need help figuring out stuff, let me know.

[Realspace]

That's exactly the idea, an overhaul of general galaxy form (this mod), cosmetics (Stars mod), base physics for ship (my REM mod). I am working on the idea to set a ground that hopefully others can/wish to use for their mods

I don't mind we have 30 or 300 ships if they basically move with the same weird physics. So don't mind 50 or 500 sectors if all look casual gates in the middle of somewhere instead of a precise logic of orbital systems.

I work on the immersion part, I think I can give a lot on this. But game's mechanics, economy, etc which is the other important part to make a game good, well that's not in my time and aim now. Nor I have expertise on that. I hope in some help in the future....

Btw I have just finished remaking skyboxes for ALL clusters, all skyboxes are 1000x larger now

[Realspace]

Small update:

the work goes on..it is a hell of work taking a lot of time, but it is worth...

Thanks to the new backdrops I enlarged, I can make sectors even 2 milion kms far away (we could even put Earth and Mars in the same cluster... ), so this made me to put the hands also on those clusters I had already changed, which takes other time too.

The layout is changed accordingly, every cluster (system) is separated from each other, except multi-clusters used for the same system.

Gates are moved in the outer space, so no more close to a planet's low orbit, they are either orbiting a moon or in a point in deep space. When moving them, I also put them about 4-5x more far away. The sector having gates is a specific "gate sector", so-called in the map too. The space is very large now, without being "tediously large".

Of course, local highways are no more, but there is a certain loop from gates sector to gate sector (gate sectors are specified in names too), if one want to reach other system, has not to go inside the system, can jump from one deep space point to another.

I am adding new custom clusters too, but they are expansions of vanilla (consider the layout of Second Contact for every system). Not local system as in vanilla second contact, but a true system (despite limited to 2-3 main planets only, with their moons)
Some vanilla clusters are aggregated, following a logic which is expressed in texts. So for instance, Grand Exchange is now the whole system, it has 3 main planets each with moons: Eightee Billions and Path to Profit, that are inside this system, only refer to specific sectors (where the events depicted in the text are supposed to be happened), not to a whole system. Later I'll add names for each planet.

The hierarchy is easy, f.i. Grand Exchange system: every planet of the 3 is either in cluster III, V, VII etc which relates to the position of the planet from the sun. Gas giants are generally more distant (VI, VII etc). Those very close (I, II) have a bigger sun (and sunlight). Then each of these is splitted into sectors (alpha, beta, gamma) that also have other subnames, so for instance alpha is the main planet and has the planet's name too, delta is generally deep space containing gates, and has subname "jumpgate". Inside-system gates are accelerators (you can see I must still change one in Grand Exchange).



This is a preview, the real map looks better since I made the text smaller, it fits the cluster. Later I will add text separators that fit well the map
Argon Prime is another example. Argon Prime, Hatikva and a third custom cluster are part of the Sonra system (it is in vanilla description), so they are:



And Hatikva, which is the VIII planet in Sonra system, the same of Argon Prime



Of course I am slightly changing the textual descriptions to show this logic (a compromise between vanilla poetry and "realism" )

I've done 50% of base-game sectors, I think I will release a prototype for those only.

Consider that I also create new regions that follow the logic of "realism", so for instance methane etc nebulae are close to the low orbit of gas giants. The closer you fly to the planet's surface, the thicker it becomes. Some of these are already available, I add them in the Stars mod directly, so for instance in Hatikva you already have a fog coming from the gas giant.
Generally I move the asteroid's fields either in the rings or in deep space, or sometimes close to a moon. Since region's modding can be made later without the need of a new game's start, the prototype will have some sector lacking them, I can add them later

[Realspace]

My first attempt to resize planets....it ended like this





a nice cupcake...

[wanderer]

Well, some points while I am playing with 10x larger sectors - using (now hidden) mod larger sectors (Nexus 'https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations ... posts&BH=0') for several months now.
This mod uses(used) X4 Customizer to enlarge all (vanilla) sectors 10 times, and also increases the travel drive speed 10x.
Also using additional mods:
+ Sector Satellites (here the enemy detection and the explorer probes)
+ Jump Drive Research
+ Luxury Satellite & Laser Tower Mk 3-Resource Probe Mk 2 (using the luxury sat.)
+ Increased Long Range Scanner (500km)
+ Spherical Long Range Scan (for conv.)
Also: 'IS' - In sector (player is in the sector); 'OOS' - out of sector (player is outside the sector)
No in-sector highways! (switched of by custom start)

Now, while playing with it, some points I found out. This may also be the case in yours when (later) playing...

- Space is big, nothing new. Most station cannot be found and seen like in vanilla. You may need additional mods like mention Scanner and Sat. mods. Some mods are cheat like, while they detect all stations (eg. mod sector sat. explorer probes). Also, a lot of stations may be placed way higher or lower (y-axis).

- Traveling takes time, even when using a mod for faster travelengine. Also a faster travel speed need a larger time/way to decelerate. This may leed to problems with missions like follow ship/find & scan ship(s), ... In this cases you need to use traveldrive - disengage traveldrive - engage traveldrive - and so on, so you can hold the distance or get to the target.

- Research mission - the race for the mod research: This may get harder. Try to reload a save before, so it reset the course. It seems that its hardcoded into X4. So you may have problems to win it. Sometimes the race course is to large to get it done, or some objects are in the way. If its a station, you may edit the save.xml to replace the station. I had to reset it 3times, and then relocated a station to get a clear course to win.

- X4 seems to place stations near the gates. I had a teladi trade station directly after the gate (the same that prevented me from winning the research race). This trade stations was very near the gate. If 'IS' you never could use travel drive - always hitting and then stuck inside the station mesh. If coming from the other sector - same problem. Moved the station in the save.xml, to avoid this.

- Planets: ...are dangerous. Eg. Hathikva - here through the enlarged sector, I got the trade station (with the Representativ) very near it. 'IS' I can only fly from center-above to the station, but not directly (travel drive!) from a gate. If doing so, I will be destroyed by the planet. So, if you enlarge such sectors, plz. be sure that stations are not placed in the atmosphere. (As a workaround in such cases: send a ship OOS to dock, then teleport to it - and you are fine.)

- Trade and building: it takes a lot more time, bec. of the distances involved. Also it needs more exploration, because you may not find the needed factories and therefore their products. I use a jump drive mod (needs research first), with this (also NPC uses them) you can shorten the travel times and with that fasten trade/build time.

- Patrol (sector), attack fleets, etc...: Also take more time to respond. And BIG thing to know, the radar range of your ship is still 40km! That means in case of patrol in an eg. 3000km sector you may patrol only empty space, bec. your ship/fleet cannot see the enemies. I use mod (steam version) sector patrol, with parking at the sector core, this helps, as long as you have a decent satellite coverage (using the luxury sats from above mod). Now my patrol fleet respond 'mostly'.

- Sector core: where is it? Several mods/commands using the sector core as a starting point. E.g. Sector explorer mod, here you can set several things how to discover th esector and its objects. Same if you use resupply ships and give them the support fleet order, BUT set a sector as the target and no commander, then this resupply ship will be around the sector core. So it cannot resupply ships who are out of radar range to detect this resupply ship. The problem I encounter, is that the sector core may also way to high or low from the normal plane. This should be reconsiderd when you create the sectors.

- Speed: Is the key to a enlarged sector/universe, but as metion above it may be a little bit tricky now in case of missions. I didn't use your real speed mod by now. I also encountered a problem when I command ship to eg. deploy sats. at a give point. In this case the m ship flys full (travel-) speed to the point and releases the sat. But now, in some cases, the sat still has the drift from the ship itself - and its now floating away... (well, as in real life )

- CPU impact: found none! Well, if you use travel mules a lot, read their faq. If you have (as I had in an earlier play) around 60+ active mules - this then starts to takes a toll onto your cpu. Same if you are in 'need' of a overwhelming HQ with everything (as me . Even some NPC sectors have ~50 stations - no problems encounterd.

- GPU impact: found none! (Only visual mod; using your star mod, no problem.)


Still, I like larger sectors. Its more interessting. You need to explore a lot lore, and you also need to plan more (in the beginning and in case you need products for your station building/factories. So I am realy looking forward to yours

It also seems, that the X4 AI likes to cluster and build alongside travel lines (I don't have sector highways). When started, most stations are placed in the sector (randomly?). After several hours the new build stations are mostly in the neighbourhood of others or even anlong the travel lanes. E.g. from gate-to-gate, I build my own 7 factories, now during playtime HAT now placed a lot of its factory beside, across and nearby. While in other sectors I have small clusters. That I like a lot - this seems more realistic, and with larger sectors it even looks greater.

I also use XUniverse, XPand (Xpanded sector adv.) and New Horizons Old Lands. Everything works together. Is there a change that this sector mods can be used together with yours? I think its only about the positioning in the galaxy.xml.

[Realspace]

Thank you for the detailed hints, I read them all and considered the points.

I can't go into details now, you'll soon try the prototype so can see my approach. I don't enlarge sectors, I expand them. F.i. argon is now 3 sectors, one close to the planet, one to the moon, one in between. Argon is also part of a system of 3 clusters, each having 3 sectors. As in the description I made above...so no risk of random enlarged sectors. Yes I move the gates about 3 to 5x more far but I check every place. Consider that i build superhighways and move planets accordingly for each cluster. Nothing is random here. Otherwise I had already finished weeks ago

The economy part is all to see in action. At the end given the expansion of logical space, every faction will have more places and resources close to them. If every sector is in a system having gas giant, sun, etc then resources are at short range.

I expect the issues you report about the 10x galaxy to be minimal in my mod bc, as told, I don't enlarge sectors (yes I do at some extent, gates..) but increase the "internal" sectors that are all connected through superhighways (NOT highways that are removed), that AI ships gladly use

What I expect is that jump sectors will have most of the skirmishes and invasions. I am changing the logic of space from random to real planetary systems. S there are many more "dead-ends" now, which I suppose will be used as a faction territory (as it should be). Don't know yet what will happen but I think (hope) that economy can growth easily bc distances to resources will be reduced indeed, despite the universe and space looking bigger.

My engines mod makes the other part...now for what I could see, since autopilot makes a lot of tricks like teleporting the ship, the ai ships do it too and despite the inertia go very very fast (there is no real top speed in my mod, but you as player set it otherwise you end accelerating away). This also should speed up economy. In my brief tests I saw trader ships going very very fast.

Edit: forgot about this, compatibility. Adding other mods thar add sectors won't work out of the box bc I am taking all the space to enlarge the system's logic. To make it work in my mod galaxy map can zoom out more. Because every system has at least 3 clusters and several sectors and each is visually separated from the neighbouring one. Practically, making compatibility is easy as long as those mods put their sectors far away, so f.i. New Horizons ok, you can move the whole block down. Xpanded mod unfortually not bc it puts sectors inbetween the map

[Newinger]

Awesome concept, like your X3FL mod I already use, can't wait to try a similar concept in X4. Keep it up !

[Realspace]

Good to know! There is no feedback in the FL forum. I'd like to know how other players enjoyed the content, the concept, the solar gates, the expansion, expecially borons and the pink hostile friends .. etc ...It took me a lot of time but it was fun to create that galaxy, the atmospheres, the factions, customizing everything from layout, planet to ships....here it is somehow more convoluted, but more powerfull what can be done.. it's all xml and since I use the diff patch method I often face strange issues like today I spent hours to struggle with a macro that seems hardcoded, no matter the entry I added it won't show. To so deeply change the vanilla galaxy, not doing another, this is the price...but it is going, I've almost redone all Terran space and half base clusters. The new skyboxes I made let me even put planets milion kms away in the same sector, I made a superhwy that is 2milion km long in terran space...won't spoil the surprise. Space has never been so large in X

[Rocketeer8015]

This sounds VERY cool. Much more immersive and it may even work out better for the AI as it currently poorly defends its systems. Have you thought about removing the hazardous regions while you are redoing the systems? I find them kinda immersion breaking(what kind of nebula eats hulls …), they add nothing to me as a player and the break the AI IS and get turned off OOS apparently anyway.

[Realspace]

My idea was to change them in the way Freelancer did it. Those dangerous nebulae will be only around the suns. Consider that I am doing all new regions for evey new sector and these regions are huge.

They are either gas giant's low orbits (methane etc, every sytem will have one gas giant, every gas giant will have one sector in the low orbit);
sun coronas (every system will have a sector around a sun, I've rescaled 10x the sun corona's models);
asteroid fields that are either oort cluds like, destroyed moons, planet's rings (almost every system has one);
regions in the outer space (no more asteroids in the low orbit of planets if these have no rings).

These regions as told are so large you never reach the border. Some planets are in the same sector and are even 8 milion kms far away.

Everything is scaled but superhighways connect these regions so space is realistically huge but game's areas are not too much. They are about 4x vanilla, i.e. the new distance of gates. Should you venture out of them, regions won't end as in vanilla

[Realspace]

Ok, quick update. I've been silent but working hard on the mod. I've started implementing a kind of template for each faction which starts owning at least one entire system. So I went further from the starting idea and added more sectors to each system.

Each system is made of a central sun plus 7-10 planets or eclyptics (that can be occupied by broken moons, etc). Generally, main planets expand over more than one sector (say a gas giant low orbit+rings+close moon), while secondary planets (not inhabitated, not having resources) are treated as simple waypoints (one sector only).

I followed the high density theory, that every system is similarly dense as the Sol system and also considered that races can at least terraform one more planet in every system. I think I managed to add a lot of variety, because now there are many secondary planets too. Also being every system a true system, it holds all the resources and is independent. Connections are not random, gates are few and in external planets, so every system is quite safe (except pirates, rough ones, etc)

Each system is made of minimum 15 sectors up to 21. Gates are moved to the external planets, with some exceptions.
I've made sofar:

Terrans
Antigone (2 systems)
Argon (2 systems)
Holy Order
Paranid (1 done, 1 to be done)
Teladi (3 systems)
Segaris

Split and Pirate systems remain to be done

I'm close to completion of this huge remake, but after this a lot of more tunings need to be done:
Region definition, which I've redone entirely
The whole description of the galaxy, which I do during the remaking
Station's spawning, god.xml etc
Starting sector's owners

I used a diff patch wherever possible so in theory all the vanilla sectors remain intact. I did not alter them, only added and expanded. This is done to keep compatibility with game starts, plots, etc. But it will require a lot of testing to see if any plot is broken, etc.

Also, I need suggestions to implement things like wormholes, special regions, hidden bases. It'd be good to have some people playing the prototype. The galaxy is quite different now and exploration can be made more interesting

Help:
For as silly as it is, I still don't know how to set OWNERSHIP OF A SECTOR TO A FACTION, AT START
I added several new sectors which should be owned by the faction of that system, at start. I looked everywhere in the libraries, did not find it
I'd like to keep the vanilla starts working with the mod too, so adding the new sectors to the faction at start

Also I'd like to know how these values in the mapdefaults work:
economy="0.5" security="0.25"

Thanks for the help

[DeadAirRT]

Help:
For as silly as it is, I still don't know how to set OWNERSHIP OF A SECTOR TO A FACTION, AT START
I added several new sectors which should be owned by the faction of that system, at start. I looked everywhere in the libraries, did not find it
I'd like to keep the vanilla starts working with the mod too, so adding the new sectors to the faction at start

Also I'd like to know how these values in the mapdefaults work:
economy="0.5" security="0.25"

Thanks for the help

Ownership is done by god.xml spawning a station that claims it

Economy is basically a loadout level for the number of production modules will have; undocumented and caused me a huge ****** headache to figure it out

Security, no clue

[Shuulo (EGO)]

4) setting ownership of a sector to a faction as default for any start. I added new sectors to every system, how to assign them to a specific faction?

you do that by adding a defense station in that sector for a faction in god.xml library.

edit: ah damn, DeadAir beat me and i dindt notice

[Realspace]

Thank you both, guys
I've almost finished the prototype, one more system to go. Splits are the only ones still to be redone. But I think I'll release the alpha to be tested. Galaxy is already huge, about 4/5x the nr of sectors, 200+ more superhighways...it needs testing

[Dr Reed]

Also I'd like to know how these values in the mapdefaults work:
economy="0.5" security="0.25"

Thanks for the help

The economy="#.#" setting is used in the god file for spawning stations onto the map.
e.g

Code: Select all

    <product id="nhparanid_refinedmetals" ware="refinedmetals" owner="nhparanid" type="factory">
      <quotas>
        <quota galaxy="3" />
      </quotas>
      <location class="galaxy" macro="xu_ep2_universe_macro" faction="nhparanid" relation="self" comparison="ge">
        <economy max="0.5" maxbound="false" />
      </location>
      <module>
        <select ware="refinedmetals" race="paranid"/>
      </module>
    </product> 

This makes it so that for this faction the refined metals stations will usually only spawn in a location that is maximum 0.5 economy. This can also ties in with the <region ware="###" max="###"/> tag for more control of station spawning.

The security="#.#" tag I think is for the Police faction patrols. Higher the number the more annoying the police seem to be, well that's what I have found but sometimes observations can be misleading.


Hope this helps.

[nikoli grimm]

I'm really looking forward to this release, keep up the good work.

[Peanutcat]

Ooo I'm excited to try this in my next playthrough.