Problems/Requests with Steam workshop implementation

[DeadAirRT]

I will be upfront, I really like steam workshop for mods as a user but it is absolutely frustrating to use as a modder. I have a few questions that maybe someone can answer and a few things I'd like to see implemented.

1) Does steam workshop still block dependencies on non-workshop mods? If this is still true; it is a huge flaw that requires either all mods to be on workshop, requires you to ask the user to edit their content.xml file (which is then overridden on update), and is absolutely pointless. If the dependency is optional or not on steam, the user can simply get the mod at it's proper location. It also restricts what mods are available to non-steam users because it's such an all or nothing thing. The modder can upload it to multiple sites (because the free enhancement of the game they are already doing isn't enough) but will run into even other issues.

2) Does steam workshop still not properly handle optional dependencies? Right now the only option we have to guarantee load order is dependencies. Extensions are loaded in such a confusing manner (that isn't even clearly explained anywhere afaik). This is what I believe is the load order is:

• Folder name alphabetical A-Z (if dependency is loaded then it loads)
• Folder name alphabetical A-Z for mods that had a dependency not loaded
• Continues second step until all loaded

Previously when I added optional dependencies, the information was not presented on the steam page properly and would prompt for missing mods.

3) Why is ws_id not a seperate attribute in content.xml? Why does a random value we have no control over become the id? This once again ties into the dependency problem. If mods could always be referred to by their id, then it would increase the QOL for modders. This would open up the ability to give users an actual choice on where they get their mods.

[sprIder]

I can only answer Question 1:
Yes, Steam still blocks mods which have a dependency on non-Steam mods. It does not block the dependency, but the upload of the mod if it has a dependency to a Steam external mod. Or does the Egosoft X tool do that itself? Unfortunately I don't know.
But it is indeed extremely annoying.

[KlausM]

Hi,

I will be upfront, I really like steam workshop for mods as a user but it is absolutely frustrating to use as a modder. I have a few questions that maybe someone can answer and a few things I'd like to see implemented.

1) Does steam workshop still block dependencies on non-workshop mods? If this is still true; it is a huge flaw that requires either all mods to be on workshop, requires you to ask the user to edit their content.xml file (which is then overridden on update), and is absolutely pointless. If the dependency is optional or not on steam, the user can simply get the mod at it's proper location. It also restricts what mods are available to non-steam users because it's such an all or nothing thing. The modder can upload it to multiple sites (because the free enhancement of the game they are already doing isn't enough) but will run into even other issues.

I can see that it is not convenient for you as a modder, but for ordinary Steam Workshop users, it is an important feature that they can download all of their mods from the Workshop with a few clicks, without having to worry about download sites or installation instructions. With that in mind, a mod that requires the user to download another mod from an external source does not belong in the Workshop. For you as a modder, unfortunately that restricts the number of dependencies that your mod can have when you want to publish your mod on the Workshop.

Did you only mean optional dependencies? Then you are right, that may be something we can improve in a future build. If Workshop users are not required to have the non-Workshop items, that should not be a problem.

2) Does steam workshop still not properly handle optional dependencies? Right now the only option we have to guarantee load order is dependencies. Extensions are loaded in such a confusing manner (that isn't even clearly explained anywhere afaik). This is what I believe is the load order is:

• Folder name alphabetical A-Z (if dependency is loaded then it loads)
• Folder name alphabetical A-Z for mods that had a dependency not loaded
• Continues second step until all loaded

Previously when I added optional dependencies, the information was not presented on the steam page properly and would prompt for missing mods.

What do you mean by optional dependencies not being properly handled? We are not aware of any issues with them, except with respect to non-Workshop items as mentioned above.

Here are the only rules that determine the load order for extensions in X4:
- Official DLCs are loaded before mods.
- If an extension A has a dependency on extension B, then B is loaded before A.

The load order is determined so that these requirements are met. Extensions without dependencies are probably loaded in alphabetical order, but that is not guaranteed.

3) Why is ws_id not a seperate attribute in content.xml? Why does a random value we have no control over become the id? This once again ties into the dependency problem. If mods could always be referred to by their id, then it would increase the QOL for modders. This would open up the ability to give users an actual choice on where they get their mods.

There are several reasons for this. For a modder, it's mildly annoying that you have to have separate content.xml files for Workshop and non-Workshop distribution, but this is again a conflict between modder convenience and Workshop user experience.

[DeadAirRT]

Hi,

I will be upfront, I really like steam workshop for mods as a user but it is absolutely frustrating to use as a modder. I have a few questions that maybe someone can answer and a few things I'd like to see implemented.

1) Does steam workshop still block dependencies on non-workshop mods? If this is still true; it is a huge flaw that requires either all mods to be on workshop, requires you to ask the user to edit their content.xml file (which is then overridden on update), and is absolutely pointless. If the dependency is optional or not on steam, the user can simply get the mod at it's proper location. It also restricts what mods are available to non-steam users because it's such an all or nothing thing. The modder can upload it to multiple sites (because the free enhancement of the game they are already doing isn't enough) but will run into even other issues.

I can see that it is not convenient for you as a modder, but for ordinary Steam Workshop users, it is an important feature that they can download all of their mods from the Workshop with a few clicks, without having to worry about download sites or installation instructions. With that in mind, a mod that requires the user to download another mod from an external source does not belong in the Workshop. For you as a modder, unfortunately that restricts the number of dependencies that your mod can have when you want to publish your mod on the Workshop.

Did you only mean optional dependencies? Then you are right, that may be something we can improve in a future build. If Workshop users are not required to have the non-Workshop items, that should not be a problem.

2) Does steam workshop still not properly handle optional dependencies? Right now the only option we have to guarantee load order is dependencies. Extensions are loaded in such a confusing manner (that isn't even clearly explained anywhere afaik). This is what I believe is the load order is:

• Folder name alphabetical A-Z (if dependency is loaded then it loads)
• Folder name alphabetical A-Z for mods that had a dependency not loaded
• Continues second step until all loaded

Previously when I added optional dependencies, the information was not presented on the steam page properly and would prompt for missing mods.

What do you mean by optional dependencies not being properly handled? We are not aware of any issues with them, except with respect to non-Workshop items as mentioned above.

Here are the only rules that determine the load order for extensions in X4:
- Official DLCs are loaded before mods.
- If an extension A has a dependency on extension B, then B is loaded before A.

The load order is determined so that these requirements are met. Extensions without dependencies are probably loaded in alphabetical order, but that is not guaranteed.

3) Why is ws_id not a seperate attribute in content.xml? Why does a random value we have no control over become the id? This once again ties into the dependency problem. If mods could always be referred to by their id, then it would increase the QOL for modders. This would open up the ability to give users an actual choice on where they get their mods.

There are several reasons for this. For a modder, it's mildly annoying that you have to have separate content.xml files for Workshop and non-Workshop distribution, but this is again a conflict between modder convenience and Workshop user experience.

Thank you for the response.

When I was talking about the optional dependencies not working properly, it was indeed in regards to steam workshop. Allowing optional non-ws mod dependencies would be a huge improvement imo.

I find it strange that the user experience is so highly prioritized over the people creating said content for free but it's not worth getting into.

[KlausM]

It's been a while, but we just updated the WorkshopTool. Optional dependencies on non-Workshop mods are now possible.