Erlking main battery use ?

[Caedes91]

If anything, the Asgard needs more m-turrets. Nobody in their right mind would build a battleship with this few turrets. But do not for the sake of god, nerf the Asgard. Terrans are supposed to be superior! Respect the lore.

The devs already gutted the terrans enough by not giving them any plasma and flak equivalent. After so much time having passed between X3 and X4 setting, the Terrans should have been more advanced then in X3, not inferior. You can only cry that that the Asgard is OP, because the other faction ships are so trash compared to Terrans. And this is completely intended and should remain so.
This is a singleplayer sandbox, meaning you can choose how to play. Don't want strong ships, then don't use them. COH is also paid DLC, so players either get their moneys worth or a decent challenge, if they choose to fight the Terrans.

To the Erlking: Please give us the ability to reverse engineer its equipment onto other ships. We already did the tedious, uninspired data vault missions for its blueprints. So why can't we put the turrets on other ships. Then the basegame ships wouldn't be so weak compared to terrans.

But even if the Erlking was amazing, I would never use it. This thing just looks so freaking ugly for the sake of being ugly.
Ok, maybe the equipment may be unique and not producable, but you can still put them inside another hull, duh.
Then people can finally throw the garbage heap, that is the Erlking, away.

Hope, they return to design philosophy COH and SV with the next DLC. The Paranid redesigns are amazing too.

[Pesanur]

To the Erlking: Please give us the ability to reverse engineer its equipment onto other ships. We already did the tedious, uninspired data vault missions for its blueprints. So why can't we put the turrets on other ships. Then the basegame ships wouldn't be so weak compared to terrans.

Those turrets need of the unique power core of the Erlking. The other ships powers cores, cannot supply them with enough energy.

[KalisaFox]

a weaker compotable version of those turrets for other ships would kinda be cool, and with their damage falloff the way they are that doesnt make them best in slot either, depending on how you use them, but not sure egosoft would do that, probably have a higher chance of seeing a modder do something like that, could just make the research part to reverse engineeer pretty expensive, and the parts be quite expensive (like meson stream price jump expensive) so we would only use the engines for example on ships we reallly love, kinda like ship mods anyway. Odd that the shields weaker then terran shields though, maybe should be weaker in 1 way but stronger in another? like very fast regen?

[Nulric]

First, a disclaimer. I haven't read every post in this thread yet, and I intend to, but I really wanted to offer my opinion here as well, for what it's worth.

As some have noted, the Erlking, in my estimation, when used in certain roles, is positively awesome. Perhaps something like the Asgard outshines it in specific situations, for sure, but the Erlking is currently my favorite ship.

Enough cannot be said about its turrets. The extremely high projectile speeds is what makes them so viable; add to that a very high rate of fire on the mediums, and excellent damage per hit on both turret sizes, plus excellent range (even with the stated power drop off at range)...definitely my favorite turret weapons, alongside the awesome golden beam weapons on the Astrid. An Erlking with a medium ship parked on it is even more effective, and especially paired with an Astrid.

I had two destroyers, an old model Odysseus and a Syn. Those two together absolutely could not survive the fighter swarms of the Vigor sectors, to get me into range of the station I needed to destroy for the Protectyon plot. Luckily, I had found all the vaults for the Erlking before they went hostile, and snatched the ship prior as well.

I went to the trouble to equip the ship with its specialized gear (got the achievement for doing so), then put Terran shields on it. I then rolled into Vigor space with it, followed by my Syn and Odysseus, and what a difference. I was able to get to the station, roast it, and retreat without any ship losses (wasn't using smalls or mediums). I think that, using destroyers, I would have needed another 3 or 4 in addition to my 2, to achieve that result. Maybe more.

As to the main battery, it's no Asgard beam sure, and I like the Terran main batteries more, but I feel like there's not a significant lack of damage coming from it, compared to the main batteries of other destroyers (excluding the monster that is the Asgard). Sure, maybe my mind had expected something a bit more destructive, but I'm still rather pleased with the reality, even not being a fan of charge up weapons.

Add to that high forward/reverse speeds (if poor turn rates, but that's expected), and I really feel like the Erlking is genuinely something special. It's not an auto delete button for the bad guys, sure, but I wouldn't want it to be. What fun is that?

Incidentally, as an experiment, before resolving the Vigor reputation situation, I saved the game and flew it, fully armed, into Windfall The Hoard, and it was eventually destroyed by the fighter swarms. It's not invincible, even against small and mediums, but man, nothing could have gotten that far in before being stopped.

Personally, I love that ship (even if it's not the coolest looking ship I've ever seen).

(EDIT): Thinking about it, I wonder if the biggest issue here we're having is one of expectations coming from the visual design of the Erlking. I mean, you watch that huge main cannon being built onto the Erlking, and probably you think (I certainly did), "That gun has to be devastating!" Then you use it, and first thing you probably notice is that it FEELS very different to use. Then you realize it's not really doing ungodly Asgard-type damage, even when charged, and you're left a bit confused. I don't know about anyone else, but that's how it was for me. After getting used to it, I still love the ship as a whole, but that was a little jarring.

[Raptor34]

I have 2 issues with it.
1. It's absolutely fugly. And lacks symmetry. One or the other I might be able to tolerate, both together is a big no no. Incidentally the same reason I disliked Teladi ships back in X3. Literally only flown it once in a custom start to see what this is all about, in my actual game I just modded it and then threw it into my fleet to train it's crew and forgotten about it. Don't think I've ever actually taken the helm in my actual game. Pity though, it has a lot of things I want in it. Except looks sadly, rather take a Syn instead, which properly armed is a real joy to fly.
2. Charge up main gun. Not as bad as Muons I guess because it has a slower ROF, but I still really dislike it. Not exactly a real problem because as mentioned it has OP turrets, but I already hate the looks and won't torture myself with it.

Also sad how bad the Astrid is to actually fly, that along with the general ugliness/lack of symmetry of ToA ships means I'm not actually using anything out of it. Though parking the Astrid in Avarice with the hazard hull mod is my favorite personal office. Nice view.
Besides that, it is kinda sad that I'm not actually using anything much out of the new DLC. Perhaps they should have added some new ion style weapons. At least I can load those on a corvette for some variety.

[Imperial Good]

If anything, the Asgard needs more m-turrets. Nobody in their right mind would build a battleship with this few turrets. But do not for the sake of god, nerf the Asgard. Terrans are supposed to be superior! Respect the lore.

It is my understanding the logic is that due to the XL battery being so far beyond any other weapon in the universe there is no need for many M turrets as instead the entire 16 L turret array can be allocated to anti-fighter. The XL battery already has enough capital damage potential to one-shot a destroyer I from full shield from ~12 km away, it does not need L turrets to help with that.

To the Erlking: Please give us the ability to reverse engineer its equipment onto other ships. We already did the tedious, uninspired data vault missions for its blueprints. So why can't we put the turrets on other ships. Then the basegame ships wouldn't be so weak compared to terrans.

Because they do not have an experimental power core to power the turrets.

Lore already explains this. The M and L turrets work by opening an energy channel connected directly to the experimental power core. It is this experimental power core that provides the energy capable of making the turrets so much better than any other turret. No other ship has this experimental power core as it is currently unique. Given enough time and resources geniuses like Boso Tar could probably reverse engineer or even improve it, but that is outside the time frame that the player experiences in X4 and so it will remain just 1 such core in existence in the universe at any given time for the player.

But even if the Erlking was amazing

It is amazing. It is literally the best ship in X4. The Asgard is only better at damaging big objects and taking damage, everything else the Erlking is best in class by miles. Fighter swarms melt to the Erlking, most ships cannot even fly as fast as the Erlking, most enemies die before reaching firing range due to the massive 10 km turret range with better than pulse laser accuracy and its travel speed and engage is leagues above any other XL ship. The only down sides to the Erlking is its paper shields meaning exploding ships pose a turret stripping risk and its main battery being a bit lack luster.

All the Erlking needs is its main battery improved to be more satisfying to use. Specifically its maximum charge damage and charge time should be increased 10 to 20 times and a cool charging effect added so that the player only releases it when they feel it will do enough damage. Between the less micro and more satisfying visuals it would be fun to use even if not required. Currently it is a rather unrewarding rhythm game, far better to forget the XL battery even exists and just let the awesome turrets make awesome sounds and explode stuff fast as you focus on flying around at 400 m/s in a ship the size of a town.

[Nulric]

So something else that occurred to me that I think is often overlooked, as concerns the Erlking. I know this is about the main batteries, but I feel like the only way to fairly assess the main battery situation is to consider the entire ship, and its full range of capabilities, as well as its deficiencies.

So, this point may also mean more for those who don't like flying the ship itself; it has a massive cargo bay. As a warship, it's probably the safest advanced auto trader (with an appropriately skilled pilot) in the game, without needing to have an escort fleet, if you were to use it in that fashion. It's also very fast, compared to larger transports especially.

As an example for the above. There's plenty of time where I'm not going to be enjoying piloting it first-hand myself. So consider the following.

In my game, ZYA has lost half of their sectors to the Xenon, as usually happens. They still have their home sector, but the Xenon are next door. Their remaining two sectors there, are a ghost town right now.

I was going to put a large advanced auto trader or two in there, but it's dangerous, and I'd need to add a robust escort fleet to said traders. I think, as an experiment, I'm going to set the Erlking in there on advanced trading, and just see how it fares on its own.

Granted, a big part of the ZYA problem is raw materials; they need miners in my game right now, especially. But once I sort that out, they need transport ships to move the refined goods. Plus, there's the better supplied Teladi next door that my trader can draw resources from, and move to the ZYA area.

It's definitely worth having a beast like the Erlking in the area, helping with the issue, as well as providing potential combat capabilities.

[Admiral Sausage]

...It's absolutely fugly...

It's literally a trash ship. In that context, I think it looks superb, along with all the other ToA ships.

[Raptor34]

...It's absolutely fugly...

It's literally a trash ship. In that context, I think it looks superb, along with all the other ToA ships.

If you like that aesthetic yeah. Objectively speaking I do think they look appropriate, ignoring how some of the fighters uses Terran cockpits, think that's really weird.
But I don't like such aesthetics so I don't like them.

[KalisaFox]

i also love the way the Erlking looks, im all for these more scrapped together ships, as for stats i think the only thing i would like to see changed with the main battery as others have mentioned, is a longer charge time option, let us charge like 5-10x as long for really high powered shots if we want, it should never be near asgard level but this ship still has an experemental high power energy source that the main gun does use so it would make sense to at least have some serious firepower considering how strong the turrets are compared to everything else, oh and slightly buffing the shield, everything else is clearly by far best in slot, and its not like we dont have comparable REALLY GOOD tier 1 shields, look as the astrid, it just would feel better if the the shields were just even comparable to terran Mk2 shields, not even strictly better, cause again, experemental power source, lore wise perhaps just really good regen?

[Caedes91]

Those turrets need of the unique power core of the Erlking. The other ships powers cores, cannot supply them with enough energy.

If you can build an Asgard, whose power core is strong enough to run the freaking Death Star laser and 16 Plasma turrets on top of all its other functions, the argument for the Erlking immediately becomes moot.
Even if the weaponry needs the experimental power core to function: What stops us from putting the entire core itself on another hull, or put an entire new hull around it? Nobody in their right mind would fly the Erlking. It looks structurally so weak, that firing the engines alone should make it fall apart.

If these ugly ToA ships were added through a free update, nobody would mind. But this is not the case. You pay 15$ for them, the same price you paid for Split and Terran ships. ToA ships are not even close to basegame ships. I miss the X Rebirth designs, even when I hated that game itself. The times when everyone thought that X4 vanilla ships were the low point of the entire X franchise.

Nobody argues, that rough looking, amateurish built ships have no right to exist. Take the Yaki for example: Their ships are just modified Paranid ships, but they make sense lorewise, even if I don't approve of asset flips like that. They are pirates stranded in the middle of nowhere, so they had to use their existing knowledge and available resources. Pirates, criminals and salvagers operate like that.

ToA ships also look like one lonely junker just welded them together with whatever scrap he had. Its looks come from necessity, not intention. This is also plausible, but only if they were ships unique to certain NPCs. However these "designs" are not unique to one or two NPCs. The ships clearly come from an assembly line, meaning: Somebody deliberately designed it ugly like that. And the entire faction, somehow lacks even a single engineer to deny this physically horrible design and just goes along to deliberately mass produce them like that. Asymetrical ships do not make sense, not even in space. They would fly terribly due to uneven mass distribution. This is why the Kukri of the terrans is so out of place.

Hope, that Egosoft returns to common reason and just make them at least symmetrical in an upcoming update.

[Raptor34]

Those turrets need of the unique power core of the Erlking. The other ships powers cores, cannot supply them with enough energy.

If you can build an Asgard, whose power core is strong enough to run the freaking Death Star laser and 16 Plasma turrets on top of all its other functions, the argument for the Erlking immediately becomes moot.
Even if the weaponry needs the experimental power core to function: What stops us from putting the entire core itself on another hull, or put an entire new hull around it? Nobody in their right mind would fly the Erlking. It looks structurally so weak, that firing the engines alone should make it fall apart.

If these ugly ToA ships were added through a free update, nobody would mind. But this is not the case. You pay 15$ for them, the same price you paid for Split and Terran ships. ToA ships are not even close to basegame ships. I miss the X Rebirth designs, even when I hated that game itself. The times when everyone thought that X4 vanilla ships were the low point of the entire X franchise.

Nobody argues, that rough looking, amateurish built ships have no right to exist. Take the Yaki for example: Their ships are just modified Paranid ships, but they make sense lorewise, even if I don't approve of asset flips like that. They are pirates stranded in the middle of nowhere, so they had to use their existing knowledge and available resources. Pirates, criminals and salvagers operate like that.

ToA ships also look like one lonely junker just welded them together with whatever scrap he had. Its looks come from necessity, not intention. This is also plausible, but only if they were ships unique to certain NPCs. However these "designs" are not unique to one or two NPCs. The ships clearly come from an assembly line, meaning: Somebody deliberately designed it ugly like that. And the entire faction, somehow lacks even a single engineer to deny this physically horrible design and just goes along to deliberately mass produce them like that. Asymetrical ships do not make sense, not even in space. They would fly terribly due to uneven mass distribution. This is why the Kukri of the terrans is so out of place.

Hope, that Egosoft returns to common reason and just make them at least symmetrical in an upcoming update.

On the one hand I agree.
Otoh, that's just you. Some people actually do like such designs.
Take X3 Teladi ships for instance, people love those ships for some godforsaken reason.

[kar dragon]

If you can build an Asgard, whose power core is strong enough to run the freaking Death Star laser and 16 Plasma turrets on top of all its other functions, the argument for the Erlking immediately becomes moot.

I agree with you there. When there are things like the Asgard that can produce stupid amounts of energy to fire its weapons, the argument for the uniqueness of the Erlking breaks down immediately. Could be a research to allow to build more of that ship, at the cost of an Asgard's worth of money and materials.

ToA ships also look like one lonely junker just welded them together with whatever scrap he had. Its looks come from necessity, not intention. This is also plausible, but only if they were ships unique to certain NPCs. However these "designs" are not unique to one or two NPCs. The ships clearly come from an assembly line, meaning: Somebody deliberately designed it ugly like that. And the entire faction, somehow lacks even a single engineer to deny this physically horrible design and just goes along to deliberately mass produce them like that. Asymetrical ships do not make sense, not even in space. They would fly terribly due to uneven mass distribution. This is why the Kukri of the terrans is so out of place.

Hope, that Egosoft returns to common reason and just make them at least symmetrical in an upcoming update.

And here is where I come to disagree. The whole point of these ships is that they are built from scavenged parts of destroyed ships, as there is a general lack of resources to properly build new ones in the ToA sectors. Sure, all of them looking identical to the point of becoming a class of ships is dumb, but that's an engine restriction, as it would be very processing and memory intensive to build original ships everywhere for that class. It's a necessary compromise for the sake of gameplay. Now, for the argument of uneven mass, there is the uneven thrust counterpoint, where you add more thrust on the heavier parts to compensate. Just look at ships from different franchises, like Star Wars' B-Wing, or Eve Online's Catalyst. Hell, you could even stay in the same franchise and just look at X3's Phoenix. Sure, it's a capital ship, but there have always been uneven, asymmetrical designs in the franchise for more established factions. The DLC ones are all scavenger factions that just got reconnected to the commonwealth of planets. As ships were destroyed or succumbed to lack of maintenance, they needed to find ways to get more to survive, and putting working parts of otherwise destroyed ships together to make one that can fly, if barely, is the easiest way to do it, especially in a conflict heavy system like Windfall or prone to natural disasters like Avarice.

[Nulric]

If these ugly ToA ships were added through a free update, nobody would mind. But this is not the case. You pay 15$ for them, the same price you paid for Split and Terran ships. ToA ships are not even close to basegame ships. I miss the X Rebirth designs, even when I hated that game itself. The times when everyone thought that X4 vanilla ships were the low point of the entire X franchise.

I feel like it's getting forgotten that a notable portion of the ship design work that went into ToA (read: ship specific development hours), was applied (understandably so, given player demand) to the new Paranid ships. They basically got a full revamp of their large ship fleet.

I know that doesn't relate strictly to the discussion of liking the aesthetics of the Raker and Vigor ships, but I feel like it is somewhat relevant to the conversation. Other expansions had the benefit of design being concentrated largely just in the new factions, but ToA brought a bit of a balancing act, in terms of new faction's ships versus a revamp of older ones. It's worth keeping in mind at least, even if it doesn't directly speak to the aesthetics. It certainly speaks to the question of value of the purchase of ToA, and what comes with it.

[Caedes91]

If these ugly ToA ships were added through a free update, nobody would mind. But this is not the case. You pay 15$ for them, the same price you paid for Split and Terran ships. ToA ships are not even close to basegame ships. I miss the X Rebirth designs, even when I hated that game itself. The times when everyone thought that X4 vanilla ships were the low point of the entire X franchise.

I feel like it's getting forgotten that a notable portion of the ship design work that went into ToA (read: ship specific development hours), was applied (understandably so, given player demand) to the new Paranid ships. They basically got a full revamp of their large ship fleet.

I know that doesn't relate strictly to the discussion of liking the aesthetics of the Raker and Vigor ships, but I feel like it is somewhat relevant to the conversation. Other expansions had the benefit of design being concentrated largely just in the new factions, but ToA brought a bit of a balancing act, in terms of new faction's ships versus a revamp of older ones. It's worth keeping in mind at least, even if it doesn't directly speak to the aesthetics. It certainly speaks to the question of value of the purchase of ToA, and what comes with it.

Though I am empathizing with Egosoft not being a AAA developer, it doesn't matter where the ship design work went in this case. Reason is because this time, it is paid DLC. When you charge the same price as previously, you can't compromise, just because you had to fix another problem, that is not part of the DLC.
This excuse is only acceptable, if the ships were added for free. Then nobody would complain if certain ships were more neglected.

By the way, they shouldn't have had to redesign the paranid ships in the first place by doing it right from the get go. Not reusing X3 designs. That these persisted for this long until they were finally fixed was regrettable. But better late then never. The game is still getting supported, so kudos for that. A game like this needs more free ships or redesign/buff basegame ships.

[jlehtone]

If only pretty things are worth our money, then why does there exist a market for horror?

[Withidread]

The Erlking simply isn't designed for the same purpose as the Asgard. It has far more in common with a galleon or ship of the line from the age of sail, whereas the Asgard has more in common with an egregiously oversized A10.

Don't forget, in addition to it's turrets, the Erlking also has a cargo capacity that surpasses even that of a Shuyaku. It has the capacity, and firepower, to deliver whatever it wants, to whoever it wants, wherever it wants, regardless of what anyone else has to say about it.

Or, in the hands of one more inclined to piracy, no cargo is safe.

[Violette]

Erlking use ? Best pirating ship ever! It literally is made for it!

.The frontal weapon is precise and not too powerful so you can disable L/XL componants accurately while not destroying the rest of the ship with it.
.It is very fast for catching up to any kind of ships very easily even if they are in travel mode.
.Its storage is so large you can steal anything from any large ships, or even small stations.
. ~300 crews place, so you can board anything with them, if they are motivated
.And if the ship you want to capture has an escort or drones, the turrets cancels them very easilly.

Really, I'm stopping to use a nemesis for capturing large ships now and will only use this one.

[foxxbl]

Erlking use ? Best pirating ship ever! It literally is made for it!

.The frontal weapon is precise and not too powerful so you can disable L/XL componants accurately while not destroying the rest of the ship with it.
.It is very fast for catching up to any kind of ships very easily even if they are in cruise mode.
.Its storage is so large you can steal anything from any large ships, or even small stations.
. ~300 crews place, so you can board anything with them, if they are motivated
.And if the ship you want to capture has an escort or drones, the turrets cancels them very easilly.

Really, I'm stopping to use a nemesis for capturing large ships now and will only use this one.

I second that, this is best ever pirate ship, it has crew complement of 328 which is subpar only to Asgard (360), and cruising speed 191m/s (modded 472 m/s), perfect for any boarding or fly-by-boarding. I like how captain chair's is positioned on top of the other work stations This ship begs for flying it IS.

[jlehtone]

This ship begs for flying it IS.

According to the lore the ship was designed by "Raker engineers", powered mainly by scraps of cold pizza, until they were transferred to something else. (Boron DLC? X-22?) The lead engineer did sound like Boron. Was she "Fan Service"?