Protectyon after the Plot: Demand, Business, Exploit?

[ChrisF0001]

What are other players' experiences of the final objective upon destroying their spice farm? Please let there be someone who saw all Vig fighters turn from red back to blue upon that Syndicate woman's message...

Well it was a food factory for me, but...

1) Made sure all my ships were well out of the way of VIG ships
2) Flew to the satellite in the Astrid and paid the 15 million. VIG now at -20 I think, most stations now pink rather than red, ships still red.
3) Flew the Astrid to the target station (not attacked as it seems to count as a trader). Dropped s huge stack of FoF Mines, stuck a spacesuit bomb on them, backed away in the ship, trigger the bomb, one module destroyed...
4) Repeat step 3 until the whole station was destroyed. Then again because they'd started to rebuild the first module and I had to blow that up again, despite none of that module being visible. Took out the build storage too. I did have to reload once as the VIG found my fleet and engaged which put me back in the red again - moved it further away on reload.
5) "We consider this situation resolved". VIG now at -11, everything was pink. Couldn't dock, but no hostilities in progress.
6) Flying through WIndfall, I saw a Repair Satellites mission. Did that, VIG at -10. Repair Data Leak, still -10. Patrol sector for 20 minutes - VIG now at -7, and I can dock and trade.
7) Ongoing, get a rep-builder trader working, but all seems on track for someday getting that Barbarossa blueprint...

[erroneous zip code]

What are other players' experiences of the final objective upon destroying their spice farm? Please let there be someone who saw all Vig fighters turn from red back to blue upon that Syndicate woman's message...

Mine was still "the casino" before they fixed that being the target, but

1. Cleared everything possible out of the Avaraice sectors ahead of time, from prior experience and a reload of "everything's hostile and I've already got trade fleets winging around making things worse"
2. Made my choice from Leap of Faith
3. Sent The Fleet up from Black Hole Sun and wiped the station off the map from OOS
4. Disabled all guns and turrets, set response override to Flee while teleporting over to a fast ship parked near the sat in Avarice IV
5. Paid the 15 million, everything except the remainder of the small fighters around the smoking remains of the casino remained hostile
6. Sent the fleet back out towards Black Hole Sun, sent the ships that were able to safely make the jump to cruise speed out towards Second Contact and kept everything else aimed towards Grand Exchange while getting fighter swarmed
7. Eventually everything deaggroed, absent any reason to continue shooting, with a couple claimed "Rep reductions" from my ships that had literally nothing turned on to shoot with that I was never able to figure out

[/root]

What are other players' experiences of the final objective upon destroying their spice farm? Please let there be someone who saw all Vig fighters turn from red back to blue upon that Syndicate woman's message...

Well, I thought it was a "pay OR fight" decision and I didn't want to give them 15 million credits - hence I beat them up pretty thoroughly... even boarded some of their freighters, thinking it might weaken them before the fight and, of course, "free ships \o/" rite? But nah, their huge appearance in swarms when you attack seems (and feels!) totally scripted - it's like the whole sector turns red (from enemy blips popping up everywhere) and it really doesn't feel like a "real" X4 battle. Somehow I got the impression it's impossible to "win" that battle - just beat up that station OOS and GTFO (had several attempts, but in the end I think I was in sector, luring the mob around as a distraction and doing the old hit-and-run).

So as I wrote above: up to that point I didn't pay any credits to VIG... and got pretty pissed when I learned that I still had to despite having turned into what felt like their worst nightmare. They should've paid ME, but well. When I got to the satellite to have a talk and pay, my ships had already withdrawn from the sector and when my reputation shot up again after paying them there were no more conflicts.

Maybe, to make it less frustrating, one should steal and sell 15 million Cr worth of ships from VIG and then steal even more - enough to build an army to attack their station. That way it may not feel as much like a rip off?

Fun fact: "from whence" is a pleonasm. Like "dead cadaver" or "arrogant Paranid". Please don't hit me - just trying to show off as a non-native English speaker and I really do think it's a fun fact

Then again because they'd started to rebuild the first module and I had to blow that up again, despite none of that module being visible.

Oh yeah, I found that to be a very very frustrating experience. Searching that invisible module with that huge red mob on my 6. I guess that works better OOS.


/edit/ps
Been combing through the ego_dlc_pirate xml files and found this in story_thefan.xml

Code: Select all

<!-- Sell Protectyon four times at a low price to trigger the dialogue -->
<signal_cue cue="PlayerProtectyonSaled_SoldLow"/>

Code: Select all

<cue name="PlayerProtectyonSaled_SoldLow">
<!--
I have received word from my Riptide Raker contacts that you are selling them affordable Protectyon!
This will save lives, thank you so very much!
-->
<unlock_achievement name="TOA_PLOT_TWIN_7" comment="Market Regulation"/>
<add_faction_relation faction="faction.player" otherfaction="faction.scavenger" value="0.067" reason="relationchangereason.missioncompleted" comment="All RIP relation rewards add up 0.1 (+20), so that the player can buy the Protectyon shield module."/>

The above is what I got - the achievement "Market Regulation" and some reputation gain.

But there's another achievement in case you manage to sell for a high price...

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<signal_cue cue="PlayerProtectyonSaled_SoldHigh"/>
<!-- You only need to sell Protectyon at a high price twice to trigger the dialogue -->

Code: Select all

<cue name="PlayerProtectyonSaled_SoldHigh">
<!--
I have just received word that you are selling Protectyon now as well.
You seem to offer it at a similar price point to the Northriver Company's Protectyon.
How could you?!
I thought we agreed to help the people of Avarice?
Now you just profit off all their misery, no different than those loathsome twins!
-->
<unlock_achievement name="TOA_PLOT_TWIN_6" comment="The Freest of Markets"/>

I don't think anyone got this achievement yet, since with the current code it's (almost) impossible to ever sell protectyon for an above average market price. But the achievement "The Freest of Markets" being in the code strongly indicates that what we're experiencing is an unintended behaviour - a bug that will hopefully be fixed in the future - because as long as everyone is being supplied to 100% capacity protectyon for free it's 100% impossible for players to ever achieve "The Freest of Markets" by ehem... normal means. We could of course buy ~3000 protectyon from Tidebreak and then sell 2x 1 unit for "above average price", but that's kinda expensive and we'd either have to dump all of it into space or buy many Astrids to store it. Not sure if there would be enough time to deliver it to your factory's storage before Tidebreak gets restocked to 100%

If anyone knows where I can find the cue that fills the Avarice stations automatically, please let me know. I think I found the one that supplies Tidebreak for free, but not yet the one for the other stations. It feels like it should be an easy thing to fix with a mod once we know where the cues are and how the current implementation works exactly. Alas, regarding xml coding and modding I'm the one-eyed among the blind at best - maybe one of the more advanced modders would like to jump on our band wagon?

[XIII8]

[quote=/root post_id=5117148 time=1648540104 user_id=169349]Well, I thought it was a "pay OR fight" decision and I didn't want to give them 15 million credits - hence I beat them up pretty thoroughly... even boarded some of their freighters, thinking it might weaken them before the fight and, of course, "free ships \o/" rite? But nah, their huge appearance in swarms when you attack seems (and feels!) totally scripted - it's like the whole sector turns red (from enemy blips popping up everywhere) and it really doesn't feel like a "real" X4 battle. Somehow I got the impression it's impossible to "win" that battle - just beat up that station OOS and GTFO (had several attempts, but in the end I think I was in sector, luring the mob around as a distraction and doing the old hit-and-run).[/quote]

I dont think its scripted; Ive long made peace with the VIG and they got that many fighters in most sectors. Their shipyards are super powerful because apparently the just need the scrappers ressources to build ships.

In the sector, I've cleaned out the fighters after three attempts. They do get replenished, but only slowly. I think what makes the entire sector attack you is the bounty though; in my last and successful try, I had paid the 15 millions and the enemies were way less aggro.

Battling that many fighters was a lot of fun though, if costly!

[/root]

Mh.. I fooled around with the "SetupTideBreak_Resupply" cue and gave it a go. To my surprise changing the Tidebreak resupply cue also seems to stop the other stations from being topped up..??

Need further testing. Maybe the station selection doesn't only target Tidebreak, but all stations in Avarice? The selector looks like this:

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<find_station name="$PirateLandmark01" space="$PirateSectors" godstationentry="'pirate_landmark_01'" required="true"/>

After that $PirateLandmark01 is used as identifier for the whole cue. I suspect the space="$PirateSectors" applies to all Avarice stations... and I've got no clue what godstationentry="'pirate_landmark_01'" might apply to..

...

Aaaaanyhow. If someone wants to test my changes - there's a download link at the end of this post. My experience after the first Tide with this mod was that my Astrids were able to sell protectyon to all the Avarice stations - but maybe I just got a lucky time window.

Here's what I did so far ...

I added a condition to the resupply that feels like a logical choice for Northriver:

Code: Select all

<conditions>
	<check_value value="$PirateLandmark01.cargo.{ware.condensate}.free gt 4929"/>
</conditions>

Considering that Tidebreak can hold 5000 protectyon and Northriver only sells for very high prices, keeping the demand high and supply low makes sense, so I added the condition above to only resupply Tidebreak if there's storage capacity for at least 4930 condensate - meaning there's only 70 protectyon left (I hope, see below). Before it has been unconditional.

I'm not sure if my code is correct regarding the "...free gt 4929" since 4929 is the qty for protectyon but m³ wise it would be 49290 (1 protectyon = 10m³). Also considering the "$PirateLandmark01.cargo.{ware.condensate}.free" to be the available storage capacity for protectyon is nothing more than a wild guess by me. I'm not sure how to discover variable contents and make sure that I'm doing the right thing

Next my replacement of that cue changes this

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<add_wares object="$PirateLandmark01" ware="ware.condensate" exact="$PirateLandmark01.cargo.{ware.condensate}.free"/>

into

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<add_wares object="$PirateLandmark01" ware="ware.condensate" exact="430"/>

Meaning instead of filling Tidebreak up to 100% (as I understand the original line) it will only provide 1 Astrid's cargo worth of protectyon. Along with the condition above it should be like Northriver only supplies Tidebreak with only ONE cargo run of protectyon and only IF they are in desperate need and are willing to pay the very high price as presented in the story. My goal is to keep Tidebreak between 70 and 500 protectyon as long as the player doesn't provide any.

Being somewhat lazy I've put that into my mod "Casual Story Mode", which aims to ease out some of the crazy numbers Egosoft considers "appropriate". Tho it's just been an idea so far and only changes the 15 million to pay VIG into this:

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<set_value name="$Ch10_BribeAmount" exact="(([[15000000, (player.money / 1Cr)i / 3].min, 150000].max)i)Cr"/>

Meaning the amount to pay changes based on the player's cash. By default it's 1/3 of the player's cash, but min 150k and max 15m Cr. Mod comment:

Spoiler

Show

This should hurt but not be an impossible wall to climb for players that just started their game.
Poor soul: Can we expect the player to work a bit to gather 150k? Hunt some crystals... seems feasible.
Normal guy: We'll take a third of your current balance. Thank you.
Rich prick: Okay, you'll get off the hook for the original 15 million credits.

Here's the mod: vxCasualStoryMode-v0.zip
If anyone likes to test the Tidebreak change but doesn't want to change the bribe amount: just delete ./vxCasualStoryMode/extensions/ego_dlc_pirate/md/story_thefan.xml from the mod directory after extraction.

[/root]

Sorry for double post, but the above is long enough.

Second tide after the cue change: my 2 Astrids managed to sell 5 protectyon each. That's 10 of 18 stations in the Avarice sector. The rest got the free gift from I don't know where... just can't find it in the scripts


/edit/ps
Good news. I have at least 3x "RIP Protectyon Delivery Raleigh (Condensate)" ships in Avarice now and they're actually buying protectyon from Tidebreak. I still own Tidebreak so I'm able to monitor the situation.

Bad news. Progress is going slow due to the massive stock Tidebreak constantly received before modding it. Tidebreak still sitting at 22930 m³ of condensate and I fear I'll have to script-drain that station if I want to see any results in my lifetime
I just don't yet know how to write a cue that will tigger only once when the mod gets installed / first activated. I don't want to reset Tidebreak every hour - I'd rather fix it once, then let it run on the modified cue.


/edit/ps
Good news. It really does seem fixable! In addition to my previous endeavours I began to harass the lately discovered ships named "RIP Protectyon Delivery Raleigh (Condensate)" and made them drop their cargo. I just blew that loot up since my stocks are full to the brim and there's generally too much of that stuff circulating. So now with Tidebreak out of the picture and the RIP Raleighs losing their stock I'm slowly getting close to making it a business. At least the Raleighs I just "emptied" came to my station a short while after, just to buy my protectyon at 27k

Also captured one of them and added it to my protectyon store's traders list. The Astrids go for everything - useless as subortinate protectyon traders - but the Raleighs only do protectyon and nothing else. They filled Tidebreak up until its price dropped below my selling price of 27k.. so I assumed the RIP Raleighs would buy at Tidebreak, but it doesn't have any sell offers. I returned it to faction.civillian, but I guess I broke it... or it doesn't sell when stock is below a certain value... no idea.

Looking at the cue TidebreakCondensate in setup_dlc_pirate.xml

Code: Select all

<add_tradeware object="$TideBreak" ware="ware.condensate" allowbuy="false" allowsell="true"/>

...maybe I actually "fixed" it? Before I could buy and sell - now I can only sell to Tidebreak - maybe that was the intended behaviour all along? Again, no idea. And buy/sell are ambiguous in this context. But right now I'm able to make some coin selling protectyon, so who cares

[Baldamundo]

Being somewhat lazy I've put that into my mod "Casual Story Mode", which aims to ease out some of the crazy numbers Egosoft considers "appropriate". Tho it's just been an idea so far and only changes the 15 million to pay VIG into this:

Code: Select all

<set_value name="$Ch10_BribeAmount" exact="(([[15000000, (player.money / 1Cr)i / 3].min, 150000].max)i)Cr"/>

Meaning the amount to pay changes based on the player's cash. By default it's 1/3 of the player's cash, but min 150k and max 15m Cr. Mod comment:

Spoiler

Show

This should hurt but not be an impossible wall to climb for players that just started their game.
Poor soul: Can we expect the player to work a bit to gather 150k? Hunt some crystals... seems feasible.
Normal guy: We'll take a third of your current balance. Thank you.
Rich prick: Okay, you'll get off the hook for the original 15 million credits.

Here's the mod: vxCasualStoryMode-v0.zip
If anyone likes to test the Tidebreak change but doesn't want to change the bribe amount: just delete ./vxCasualStoryMode/extensions/ego_dlc_pirate/md/story_thefan.xml from the mod directory after extraction.

Could you not set it to scale off the player's total assets stat? Otherwise it's very easily exploitable by just dumping all your liquid cash on something to drop the price.

BTW is there a summary somewhere of the different outcomes for this quest overall?

Sounds like either way you have to go to war with VIG, but if you oppose the Northrivers you get the station blueprints to set up your own protectyron supply (albeit that's currently pointless?) and a chance to capture the two Astrids...whereas if you side with the Northrivers you get what?

[Imperial Good]

5.10 is changing the mechanics behind the protectyon sold at Tidebreak to better reflect what Northriver is meant to be doing lore wise. It will be much more profitable for the player to provide protectyon.

[/root]

5.10 is changing the mechanics behind the protectyon sold at Tidebreak to better reflect what Northriver is meant to be doing lore wise

Awesome! I love when my mods go obsolete

Btw: Right now it works very well for me. Since Tidebreak doesn't receive full resupplies anymore and the RIP Raleighs got encouraged to "reconsider" my protectyon sell offer, the Avarice stations actually drop down to 1/5 and even 0/5 protectyon before my and RIP's Raleighs resupply them. Even my selling price of 27000 works really nice now and my Raleighs keep Tidebreak close to 1k of protectyon - just above the new "Northriver resupply trigger point"

[palm911]

IS THIS still a thing?

i mean can you make money from pretection? or not yet?

[NightmareNight91]

Just side with the twins, you get well over a hundred mill after selling free ships and stuff and the outcome is the same, just different rewards.

The fact that I can't automate a ship to go to leap of faith and pick up protectyon and distribute it means I will never bother with it after the plot. There's no real incentive when you can just spam advanced electronics or computronic substrate and make millions.