Trying to plan a station build.

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NewtSoup
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Trying to plan a station build.

Post by NewtSoup » Mon, 15. Aug 22, 18:50

As the title suggests, I am trying to plan a station build.

What I need help with is actually designing it.

I put a number of planned modules together. Realise that I need to add a bit in the middle ( such as an X )

When I separate the two halves to add the bit in the middle one of the two halves gets discarded.


How can I pull the design apart, add and remove modules and put it back together without losing chunks?
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NewtSoup
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Re: Trying to plan a station build.

Post by NewtSoup » Mon, 15. Aug 22, 19:32

It keeps removing a storage module too.

Even though I can still see the storage module and manipulate it. It stays in red under "removed modules".

Also Do I need a pier? Can L ships trade without one?

Also on my original plan it was listing only 2 of 4 energy cell production. I don't get it.. also "shuffle modules" keeps putting stuff seemingly outside the build area.

are these known quirks or am I doing something wrong? I don't want to commit and assign a builder and then end up with half a station.
I am a rock in the wind, watch how I plummet!
Gamer Girl since 1981 Mistress of Heavy Landings since 1984 (BBC-B Elite)

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NewtSoup
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Re: Trying to plan a station build.

Post by NewtSoup » Mon, 15. Aug 22, 20:00

Here's a picture,

I know it's not a great design and I won't be using it but as you can see only two cell productions are there even though there are 4 and only 1 Argon M Container is there. I realise that the pier makes horrible use of my construction area. but I need if it L class freighters are going to buy from me yes?

https://imgur.com/SFwedYD.jpg


This design ( still bad I think ) makes everything appear in the module list. There was no red in the module section when ALL of the station was at the "back" of my build area. When I moved it all forward so that the pier's docking area is outside of my build limits it decided that an Argon M Container storage had been removed. Although it has not. They are both still there in the module list.

https://imgur.com/NMAOA2U.jpg

is anyone able to explain what's happening? ( also tips on configuration are welcome ).
Last edited by Terre on Tue, 16. Aug 22, 06:20, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Images posted directly to the forums should not be greater than 640x480 or 100kb, oversize image now linked
I am a rock in the wind, watch how I plummet!
Gamer Girl since 1981 Mistress of Heavy Landings since 1984 (BBC-B Elite)

Corei7 7700, 16GB Ram, MSI RX6700XT, Sidewinder FFB2, Kubuntu 22.04

trooperrob
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Re: Trying to plan a station build.

Post by trooperrob » Tue, 16. Aug 22, 00:43

The red indicates a module is removed (or modified). I think this is because you moved it after hiring a builder and starting to build. The builder will have to remove the partial build and put it where you now want it. I think it can recycle the materials.
edit Just had another look, I haven't seen red module unless it has actually started building, but doesn't look like you have a builder there so strange.

edit 2.
You do need a pier for L ships to dock.
What I do, is buy a plot. Place a 3 E dock on the plot edge. Then a connector, then a small dock. I then delete the 3E dock before hiring a builder. Once the station is up and running I know a dock will fit.

I use 3E because i think they take less space in the plot.

When you change a design, it doesn't like you deleting a module in the middle of your build, I find as you do, it tries to delete all after that. I try never to do that.

NewtSoup
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Re: Trying to plan a station build.

Post by NewtSoup » Tue, 16. Aug 22, 03:52

trooperrob wrote:
Tue, 16. Aug 22, 00:43
The red indicates a module is removed (or modified). I think this is because you moved it after hiring a builder and starting to build. The builder will have to remove the partial build and put it where you now want it. I think it can recycle the materials.
edit Just had another look, I haven't seen red module unless it has actually started building, but doesn't look like you have a builder there so strange.

edit 2.
You do need a pier for L ships to dock.
What I do, is buy a plot. Place a 3 E dock on the plot edge. Then a connector, then a small dock. I then delete the 3E dock before hiring a builder. Once the station is up and running I know a dock will fit.

I use 3E because i think they take less space in the plot.

When you change a design, it doesn't like you deleting a module in the middle of your build, I find as you do, it tries to delete all after that. I try never to do that.
thanks, Rob.

It turned out to be just a UI bug. After messing around redoing it and undoing and pulling it apart and putting it back together I saved it anyway. Quit the editor. Went back in 10 minute later to try again and it was all fine when I loaded the layout.
I am a rock in the wind, watch how I plummet!
Gamer Girl since 1981 Mistress of Heavy Landings since 1984 (BBC-B Elite)

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NewtSoup
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Re: Trying to plan a station build.

Post by NewtSoup » Tue, 16. Aug 22, 03:54

NewtSoup wrote:
Tue, 16. Aug 22, 03:52
trooperrob wrote:
Tue, 16. Aug 22, 00:43
The red indicates a module is removed (or modified). I think this is because you moved it after hiring a builder and starting to build. The builder will have to remove the partial build and put it where you now want it. I think it can recycle the materials.
edit Just had another look, I haven't seen red module unless it has actually started building, but doesn't look like you have a builder there so strange.

edit 2.
You do need a pier for L ships to dock.
What I do, is buy a plot. Place a 3 E dock on the plot edge. Then a connector, then a small dock. I then delete the 3E dock before hiring a builder. Once the station is up and running I know a dock will fit.

I use 3E because i think they take less space in the plot.

When you change a design, it doesn't like you deleting a module in the middle of your build, I find as you do, it tries to delete all after that. I try never to do that.
thanks, Rob.

It turned out to be just a UI bug. After messing around redoing it and undoing and pulling it apart and putting it back together I saved it anyway. Quit the editor. Went back in 10 minute later to try again and it was all fine when I loaded the layout.
I now have a station in Bright Promise that's making no money :D. The old "set it 1 credit below average price" trick doesn't seem to work any more. I will let the manager do the doings for a bit.
I am a rock in the wind, watch how I plummet!
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grapedog
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Re: Trying to plan a station build.

Post by grapedog » Tue, 23. Aug 22, 03:02

NewtSoup wrote:
Tue, 16. Aug 22, 03:54
NewtSoup wrote:
Tue, 16. Aug 22, 03:52
trooperrob wrote:
Tue, 16. Aug 22, 00:43
The red indicates a module is removed (or modified). I think this is because you moved it after hiring a builder and starting to build. The builder will have to remove the partial build and put it where you now want it. I think it can recycle the materials.
edit Just had another look, I haven't seen red module unless it has actually started building, but doesn't look like you have a builder there so strange.

edit 2.
You do need a pier for L ships to dock.
What I do, is buy a plot. Place a 3 E dock on the plot edge. Then a connector, then a small dock. I then delete the 3E dock before hiring a builder. Once the station is up and running I know a dock will fit.

I use 3E because i think they take less space in the plot.

When you change a design, it doesn't like you deleting a module in the middle of your build, I find as you do, it tries to delete all after that. I try never to do that.
thanks, Rob.

It turned out to be just a UI bug. After messing around redoing it and undoing and pulling it apart and putting it back together I saved it anyway. Quit the editor. Went back in 10 minute later to try again and it was all fine when I loaded the layout.
I now have a station in Bright Promise that's making no money :D. The old "set it 1 credit below average price" trick doesn't seem to work any more. I will let the manager do the doings for a bit.
99% of the time letting the manager auto handle pricing will work better.

Some tips for your next build....

Build your pier/dock early so you can assign a manager, start ordering drones, and tasking ships as things get built. Then build your storage and at least 1 hab. Then build your ecells and tier 1 products, then tier 2, and then tier 3.

Building up this way allows mining ships to start work immediately, and allows you to start bringing in workers. Then as your tier 2 production modules finish building the tier 1 products are ready and waiting. Also, if im going to have multiples of different modules, ill try to build one of each type of module before moving on to the 2nd or 3rd... that way all miners are employed and all base resources start getting used... as opposed to building say 4 silicon wafer modules in a row, then 4 refined metals in a row.

Obviously it won't always work this way, but this is how i try to build my stations so that modules are all getting use as soon as they are completed and the very first resources arrive, without like say a tier 3 module waiting for an hour or more for tier 1 and 2 modules to get built and produce. Building this way also reduces how much money a station asks for.

If you build tier 2 before tier 1, the manager will assume you intend to buy tier 1 products, not produce them. So it will want money to purchase them and try to purchase them if they have cash.

This is my philosophy anyhow, and im sure there are other valid options, but this is my chosen style to be most efficient and it works well.

HammerHead91
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Re: Trying to plan a station build.

Post by HammerHead91 » Tue, 23. Aug 22, 03:56

NewtSoup wrote:
Mon, 15. Aug 22, 18:50
As the title suggests, I am trying to plan a station build.

What I need help with is actually designing it.

I put a number of planned modules together. Realise that I need to add a bit in the middle ( such as an X )

When I separate the two halves to add the bit in the middle one of the two halves gets discarded.


How can I pull the design apart, add and remove modules and put it back together without losing chunks?
I have a workaround for you. You will need some clear space within your build volume, but this is what works for me. I call this clear space my "workshop". I usually have lots of space below the main, functional parts of the station for this purpose.

First, in your workshop space, put a connector in. I normally use the Argon cross piece.

Then, go back to the bit you want to separate and pull that sequence down to the cross piece in the workshop. Since the cross piece is going to be the only valid connection in that part of the volume, it should snap together with the cross piece pretty easily. WARNING! You must -- at ALL times -- make sure that when you're assembling a station that you do it with rigid respect for the sequence hierarchy.

Third, put another cross piece into the workshop. Now, the game is about to do something truly useless and it will try to anticipate where the cross piece needs to connect to. ONLY allow it to connect to the first cross piece. THE GAME IS CRAP AT THIS AND CANNOT AT ALL BE TRUSTED.

Fourth, pull the second cross piece off to the side of the first cross piece. The game will usually allow this without getting all confused and "helpful".

Fifth, build the section you want to add in using the second cross piece as a base.

Sixth, join the first separated section to the build section.

Seventh, take the completed (build+separated) pieces and drag them to where you made your original separation in the first step.

This is fiddly and tiring, but it does work and -- most important of all -- it cuts down on the game's stupid attempts to "help" you by auto-snapping things willy nilly.

NewtSoup
Posts: 1405
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Re: Trying to plan a station build.

Post by NewtSoup » Tue, 23. Aug 22, 17:59

grapedog wrote:
Tue, 23. Aug 22, 03:02

99% of the time letting the manager auto handle pricing will work better.

Some tips for your next build....

Build your pier/dock early so you can assign a manager, start ordering drones, and tasking ships as things get built. Then build your storage and at least 1 hab. Then build your ecells and tier 1 products, then tier 2, and then tier 3.

Building up this way allows mining ships to start work immediately, and allows you to start bringing in workers. Then as your tier 2 production modules finish building the tier 1 products are ready and waiting. Also, if im going to have multiples of different modules, ill try to build one of each type of module before moving on to the 2nd or 3rd... that way all miners are employed and all base resources start getting used... as opposed to building say 4 silicon wafer modules in a row, then 4 refined metals in a row.

Obviously it won't always work this way, but this is how i try to build my stations so that modules are all getting use as soon as they are completed and the very first resources arrive, without like say a tier 3 module waiting for an hour or more for tier 1 and 2 modules to get built and produce. Building this way also reduces how much money a station asks for.

If you build tier 2 before tier 1, the manager will assume you intend to buy tier 1 products, not produce them. So it will want money to purchase them and try to purchase them if they have cash.

This is my philosophy anyhow, and im sure there are other valid options, but this is my chosen style to be most efficient and it works well.
Thank you, Grapedog. I designed the whole station in one go. But now I think I shall do it that way. I will design the whole station first ( presuming I have an idea of what I want to achieve ) so that I have it clear in my head. And then deconstruct it to the docks first and work back up from there.

HammerHead91 wrote:
Tue, 23. Aug 22, 03:56

I have a workaround for you. You will need some clear space within your build volume, but this is what works for me. I call this clear space my "workshop". I usually have lots of space below the main, functional parts of the station for this purpose.

First, in your workshop space, put a connector in. I normally use the Argon cross piece.

Then, go back to the bit you want to separate and pull that sequence down to the cross piece in the workshop. Since the cross piece is going to be the only valid connection in that part of the volume, it should snap together with the cross piece pretty easily. WARNING! You must -- at ALL times -- make sure that when you're assembling a station that you do it with rigid respect for the sequence hierarchy.

Third, put another cross piece into the workshop. Now, the game is about to do something truly useless and it will try to anticipate where the cross piece needs to connect to. ONLY allow it to connect to the first cross piece. THE GAME IS CRAP AT THIS AND CANNOT AT ALL BE TRUSTED.

Fourth, pull the second cross piece off to the side of the first cross piece. The game will usually allow this without getting all confused and "helpful".

Fifth, build the section you want to add in using the second cross piece as a base.

Sixth, join the first separated section to the build section.

Seventh, take the completed (build+separated) pieces and drag them to where you made your original separation in the first step.

This is fiddly and tiring, but it does work and -- most important of all -- it cuts down on the game's stupid attempts to "help" you by auto-snapping things willy nilly.
This sounds very much like how I got it together in the end. I will keep it all in mind when it comes to expanding or building the next station.

This is what I ended up with - it's more or less how I imagined it should go. The single pier extends along the very top of my build area right up to the edge such that a ship docking is outside the build area. That means I can extend under the pier and downwards and behind the solar arrays too. I will be keeping all docking at the very top. From my experience in the game so far Xenon seem to go for docks first so I may consider putting defence hubs into the top layer too.

https://imgur.com/6AhlbKd.jpg
Last edited by Terre on Tue, 23. Aug 22, 19:36, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Images posted directly to the forums should not be greater than 640x480 or 100kb, oversize image now linked
I am a rock in the wind, watch how I plummet!
Gamer Girl since 1981 Mistress of Heavy Landings since 1984 (BBC-B Elite)

Corei7 7700, 16GB Ram, MSI RX6700XT, Sidewinder FFB2, Kubuntu 22.04

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