[6.0 RC1] Has sub-system target priority changed (Query/Bug?) - Improvement coming.

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Scoob
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[6.0 RC1] Has sub-system target priority changed (Query/Bug?) - Improvement coming.

Post by Scoob » Sat, 1. Apr 23, 20:24

Hi,

I started a new game very recently, during the Beta. Unlike my prior game starts during this Beta - and indeed, the game to date, something is different when cycling through the surface elements of a Capital ship.

Previously, when cycling through surface elements, it'd ALWAYS start with Turrets. For example, on an SCA Plunderer Phoenix Vanguard, I'd target the ship, then click "Next Surface Element" (mapped to mouse button for me) and it'd cycle through turrets first. Once all those were destroyed, it'd target a Shield first. However, now when I do this, it's regularly NOT a turret that's selected first. It seems to be somewhat random whether a Shield or Turret will be targetted next. I.e. it might go, Shield, shield, shield, turret, shield, turret, turret as I cycle through.

That surface element targetting be predicable is important as the main ship target "box" still obscures any and all surface element target boxes if it's in the way - most noticeable when far away and the ship target box can encompass the ENTIRE vessel, making clicking individual surface elements impossible. So, being able to select a target, then click "Next Surface Element" and getting Turrets first is important.

I wanted to check if others have noticed this anomaly. I board LOTS of ships, so have neutered likely thousands of turrets over the time I've played and it's ALWAYS been the turrets that are cycled through first. Not any more, at least not with this SCA Plunderer Phoenix Vanguard.

Can anyone else confirm? I don't have a save from the start of this encounter sadly, so cannot show the issue. Will test again with my next boarding target though.

Scoob
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Re: [6.0 RC1] Has sub-system target priority changed (Query/Bug?)

Post by Scoob » Sat, 1. Apr 23, 20:55

The target ship eventually repaired two of it's turrets, so, if you load this saved game, you can see the issue clearly.

Simply load the save, target the ship, then hit "Next Surface Element" and it'll target several Shield Generators before targetting the turrets, then going back to targetting Shields.

sirprosik
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Re: [6.0 RC1] Has sub-system target priority changed (Query/Bug?)

Post by sirprosik » Sun, 2. Apr 23, 19:17

Not only has turret targeting changed. i.e. XL shields and engines were next to each other on a K as an example. Not anymore.
Once you 'take over the ship via marines' the repair 'algorithm' for next available to repair module priority changed.
Engines used to be priority and as you found out turrets now have priority.

CBJ
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Re: [6.0 RC1] Has sub-system target priority changed (Query/Bug?)

Post by CBJ » Sun, 2. Apr 23, 19:41

First, just to be clear, there was never any code that explicitly ordered targets by turret or engine. They may have come back in this order by chance, but from this perspective the list was essentially unsorted.

Second, there were two different cases. Where you had selected an object as a target (e.g. a station) and the target system automatically included surface elements of the currently-selected target in the cycle sequence, the items were sorted by "screen angle" in the same way as other ships and stations. In the case where you had explicitly opted to cycle only through surface elements, the items were unsorted, and just cycled in whatever order they happened to be found. It's likely this order was fairly consistent, but it certainly wasn't chosen for any particular reason!

The change that was made was to make these two cases consistent, sorting by "screen angle" so that targets you were likely to be looking at would be selected first, and those off-screen later.

I could change this back, but then I suspect other people would complain that they want it to target what they are looking at rather than some distant turret. Consistency between the two cases was the aim here. And no, "make it optional" isn't a viable solution at this point!

Note that any change to repair priority (and I'm not aware of any such change) would have nothing whatsoever to do with targeting order.

Buzz2005
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Re: [6.0 RC1] Has sub-system target priority changed (Query/Bug?)

Post by Buzz2005 » Sun, 2. Apr 23, 21:18

if it's up to a "vote" let the others say if they like it to stay, after 5 years i kind of got use to it and think its better before when cycle goes through turrets first, even though now that you explained the change this should be way better for turrets on stations, going around ship is very fast anyway
Fixed ships getting spawned away from ship configuration menu at resupply ships from automatically getting deployables.

sirprosik
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Re: [6.0 RC1] Has sub-system target priority changed (Query/Bug?)

Post by sirprosik » Sun, 2. Apr 23, 22:16

Either way is fine for me. It just takes longer to go from engine 1 to engine 2 on a K/I when cycling through but I am fine with it.
Just wondered if it was a bug or not or if it was a change.

As far as repair order I sure wish I could manually control what comes up 'next' with my repair laser :)

Scoob
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Re: [6.0 RC1] Has sub-system target priority changed (Query/Bug?)

Post by Scoob » Mon, 3. Apr 23, 15:09

Thanks for the explanation CBJ. Understanding the logic behind both the prior and current next sub-system targetting priorities / sequence helps.

I'm surprised it was never explicit logic that meant turrets were always (and I mean always in my many hours of experience) targetted first.

I think a priority of Turrets first is good in combination with LoS. I.e. cycle through the turrets that can hurt me first sort of thing. I board lots of ships and will usually pre-neuter them to eliminate any risk to the boarding pods.

One thing that might be relevant though. There's often a difference between whether a turret is in my LoS and whether I'm in LoS of that turret. I.e. a currently targetted turret might be greyed out, showing that my current weapon cannot hit it, yet the turret is freely firing at me and hitting. This appears to be due to my targetting snapping to the base of the Turret, where it joins the ship, whereas the gun barrel pops up so has a different LoS to me. Hope I've explained that well.

Many a time, while orbiting a target to strip it of weapons, I've had turrets open fire on me before I get LoS on them. While all turrets do it, Missile turrets are particularly good, which makes sense as the (guided) missiles can arc around the superstructure of the ship to a degree.

Ideally, for me, while the screen angle thing is solid, I'd like to see the TOP priority to include proximity to the target reticle. I.e. I have an L-Class ship targetted, but my reticle is currently over a specific Turret, Shield or Engine. I click "Next Surface Element" and the first priority is the element I'm looking at. Only after that does it goes through the other elements.

As mentioned, with the ship's target box always having selection priority when clicking with the mouse - i.e. I clicked directly on a Turret, but the Ship is what gets selected - this ability to quickly target the element I'm looking at would be most useful.

CBJ
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Re: [6.0 RC1] Has sub-system target priority changed (Query/Bug?)

Post by CBJ » Mon, 3. Apr 23, 15:21

Scoob wrote:
Mon, 3. Apr 23, 15:09
Ideally, for me, while the screen angle thing is solid, I'd like to see the TOP priority to include proximity to the target reticle. I.e. I have an L-Class ship targetted, but my reticle is currently over a specific Turret, Shield or Engine. I click "Next Surface Element" and the first priority is the element I'm looking at. Only after that does it goes through the other elements.
That is precisely what "screen angle" is supposed to mean.

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Re: [6.0 RC1] Has sub-system target priority changed (Query/Bug?)

Post by Scoob » Mon, 3. Apr 23, 16:12

CBJ wrote:
Mon, 3. Apr 23, 15:21
That is precisely what "screen angle" is supposed to mean.
Cool, that's what I was hoping, thanks for clarifying. My thought was that perhaps a turret (for example) might technically be closer to me and have LoS - i.e. it's shooting me - but I'm looking at (reticle) what *I* consider a higher-priority target and I want to target that sub-system next. Basically, while all turrets with LoS are a potential threat, I might be able to shrug off the DPS dealt by a closer Pulse Turret, while the more distant Missile Turret that I'm actually looking at poses a more serious threat.

So, in essence the game prioritises what can be "seen" - i.e. has LoS - whereas I can further prioritise within that list by what I'm actually pointing at with the reticle.

I will test this further this evening. It's good to understand how things are supposed to work. Cheers.

CBJ
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Re: [6.0 RC1] Has sub-system target priority changed (Query/Bug?)

Post by CBJ » Mon, 3. Apr 23, 23:57

A small correction: the "screen angle" sorting wasn't actually doing what I wanted it to with the surface elements. In the process of fixing another issue with the cycling of surface elements, I've switched it to use "centre view distance", which is a closer match for what you described. This will be in the next update.

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Re: [6.0 RC1] Has sub-system target priority changed (Query/Bug?)

Post by Scoob » Fri, 7. Apr 23, 13:42

CBJ wrote:
Mon, 3. Apr 23, 23:57
A small correction: the "screen angle" sorting wasn't actually doing what I wanted it to with the surface elements. In the process of fixing another issue with the cycling of surface elements, I've switched it to use "centre view distance", which is a closer match for what you described. This will be in the next update.
Thanks.

Buzz2005
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Re: [6.0 RC1] Has sub-system target priority changed (Query/Bug?)

Post by Buzz2005 » Sat, 8. Apr 23, 17:25

CBJ wrote:
Mon, 3. Apr 23, 23:57
A small correction: the "screen angle" sorting wasn't actually doing what I wanted it to with the surface elements. In the process of fixing another issue with the cycling of surface elements, I've switched it to use "centre view distance", which is a closer match for what you described. This will be in the next update.
If i understand correctly, for example if I target Xenon I and press "next surface element" it should target a turret in my view? as in it will prio visible turrets first? or its random visible surface elements?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b8y28q2rzgz8r ... ml.gz?dl=0
in this save (vanilla, 6.0rc3) you are in front of one Xenon I and when I press next surface element it targets some distant shield, as I cycle it never gives me plenty of L turrets i have direct line of sight, or even shields I have in front of me?

I use xbox controller and gamepad mode ON
Fixed ships getting spawned away from ship configuration menu at resupply ships from automatically getting deployables.

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