Feedback after 7.5 hours play

General discussion about X³: Farnham's Legacy.

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RegisterMe
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Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by RegisterMe » Thu, 6. May 21, 02:35

Background - endless hours in all X games to date. But the last time I put serious effort into X3 it was a couple of long runs in Litcube, and that was at least a couple of years ago.
Proviso - some of the following will be down to the base game, some FL design decisions / implementation, some down to my gameplay approach, and some down to the intersect of all three - not all of the following should be taken as criticism of FL. This is more feedback on how my playstyle and FL have interacted to date and how I've felt as a result.
tldr - damn the start is slow

Positives - I really like the writing, it's a cut above that in any other X game. I like the exploration system (some of it has echoes of Eve). I like the HQ. No bugs experienced!
Negatives - damn the start is slow, that Boron (which must be a base Egosoft "asset" by now) is like the Satan spawned love child of Jar Jar Binks and Claptrap. I think the only X character more annoying is called Yisha.

Current Status
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Vanilla Terran start, I've got the HQ, I've got the Demeter and the Dolphin, I've used the locatory thing to find everything in the starting sectors, I've used the locatory thing to open the not-a-jump-gate thing, I've been scared off by the Paranids, I've hired the Elephant. I'm trying to make money. It's slow.
My playstyle sees me rarely run missions. Big combat missions? Sure (none available at all). Big trade missions? Sure (none available). Build missions? Sure (none available). The only missions I've actually seen so far are for passenger runs, which I can't do because I have no passenger transport and seemingly no ability to get any (so, effectively, none available).
Trading secondary resources isn't worth it because the a) the demand is so limited and b) the risks of ending up with a cargo hold of unsellable wares is too high (along with the corresponding risk of tying up your capital that way).
I've made one small crystals trade. Other than that it's sit there and wait for the price of e-cells to hit 12 (because why wouldn't you, the resource is limited, the sell price is basically capped, so you might as well max your upside and limit your effort). Which means a lot of time sat there on max SETA doing nothing.
Which is boring.
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At some point I'll get enough cash together to put the Bofu station down, at which point it will be... similar. Buy e-cells manually at 12. Buy Bogas at minimum price. Try to sell Bofu at max price. But, if it's anything like other X games (or even mods), that first station is going to be unimportant long term. Which means it's a hell of a lot of effort at game start just to be forgotten about as soon as you really get going). I understand that this part of the game is effectively a tutorial, it could be made easier and faster to encourage you to get to the meat quicker.
Note though that I say that without having progressed the tutorial (plot?) past that point.

Suggestions:-

1. Give each start half a dozen advanced satellites. It would provide a marginal uplift to early game trading, give the player something else to do for a bit, and also form a useful part of the "tutorial". (The capital cost early game to purchase them yourself, even though it might facilitate trading higher value products like bogas etc, is too high. Better just to bull through the pain...).
1a. 1 above may be enough to alleviate it, but if not perhaps provide marginally more trading opportunities in the starting area. A single basic shield fab and a single cheap weapon fab, and any resulting requirement for an additional SPP, would provide more consumption for ore, silicon and bofu etc.
2. Don't give missions eg passenger transport missions that simply can't be run. It just dissuades the player from looking at missions later in the game. "You're taught the wrong lesson".

I am confident I am going to enjoy it when I get through this pain point, but as of 7.5 hours played (probably over half of which is sat there doing nothing with SETA on), I'm hella bored.
I can't breathe.

- George Floyd, 25th May 2020

Virtualaughing
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by Virtualaughing » Thu, 6. May 21, 03:43

As an experienced X3 player i agree with all your points. I think i have found all that can be found in The Void to set things going. Sold the weapons from the abandoned ships as they won't be able to defend themself n so on. At early game you have to set the HQ not to sell anything which can be a MAJOR issue for the unexperienced.
If your HQ sell any stuff you will be screwed that I'm sure you have to restart the game.
As i had to restart it because the beacons thing this was a brand new experience. I have no memories about any restarted X game so far.

The manual buy resources sell resources repeat adjust station account is just i have done it so much it makes me maaaaaad. I want Trade command software mark II NAOW :D

I love this thing that we are back in X3 universe but.... but....
X to X3 is MENU SUPERIOR!
I think Egosoft has already worked out our doom, because Xenon AI will reach the stars! :D

Aranov
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by Aranov » Thu, 6. May 21, 04:32

Hope you don't mind me adding my experience, but I felt I had to say something somewhere.
Overall this version of x3 is SLOW.
Have 2 days played according to the game, with one and a half of that of that being in seta.
And I hate to be negative, I understand this was a labor of love and honestly many issues are vanilla issues, but for X3's last hurrah it's honestly disappointing.
My Start:
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Argon Official Start, tutorial finished and stuck on Terran plot now.
I agree with your opinions on the start, but it also doesn't feel to pick up afterwards. Lack of Jumpgates and Beacons doesn't help.
Various notes, still a lot to unpack here so I may have gotten somethings wrong.
Generic Missions:
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Painful imo.
Pay feels like it's been nerfed across the board. In fact build missions aren't even worth it as they don't cover station costs.
Like, the station costs more to buy then what they pay to build and haul it, often in unrealistic time-frames.
And the game state is just not conductive to trade missions, Almost every station I've seen is at less then 1/4 cap of the product, with low resource.
Final nail is "Dynamic Relations". Can't just take every mission, leaving you to abandon the some of the ones that are doable or otherwise worth time.
And The crawl back from low rep is just murder, you basically send out an Agent and wait. Otherwise it's near impossible, as is tradition.
Single Passenger Transport missions are now vital, only way to get agents. Always requiring a TP and having a short time is annoying however.
Supply Issues:
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Equipment, Trade and Military docks are empty. Like they have just nothing in stock. This will make building any sort of fleet require you build and maintain you own Factories.
Then Equipment such as Jumpdrives, Transporter and salvage insurance are super rare. Like count all them on one hand rare.
As for the HQ... did we learn nothing from x4? WHY is the center of the players empire, one of a kind at that, stuck in someone else's space? And now do the wrong missions in the sandbox, they go hostile.
I think I know how to move it, but that is a credits issue. But even then, build times SUCK. They sucked in TC, they sucked in AP, and they suck here.
I see no excuse why a game should have such a time investment that amounts to push two buttons and wait 6 hours, as an example. Maybe if it was an mmo or server that always ran. But not a game you might sit down at for an hour or two at a time. As an example, something I unlocked via the explorers guild:
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Boarding pods. 1 hour 1 minute 47 seconds. PER POD.
Now A simple TS you might say?
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Dolphin Super Freighter XL. 3 hours 17 minutes 46 seconds. Which I need new TS because, hah hah, A Xenon fleet led by a Q decided to camp The Void Beta. The only source of energy cells in the Void. Guess what happened.
Other nit picks:
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Lack of bonus pack. Booster is there, but now I need to hold the hotkey? CAG/CLS is gone it seems. SWEN seems like it's integrated in theory, via the empire tab. I say in theory as good luck finding Sats for sale.
I'm looking to test the "Real sector ownership" but there seems to be no or limited unknown sectors, found one via hyperthingy. Infested with Xenon. And breaks the Autopilot and Jump commands until there is a ToA.
Also that Q from the HQ story? How'd he get there? The HUB. Which is bugged and can't be used after the plot. And Is now infested with Xenon that made a beeline into it.
How'd that go untested? You literally need to just finish the tutorial to unlock the HUB.
Again, I don't want to be negative. There is good stuff here. But X3 is showing her age, not only in engine or mechanics, but also game design.

Snafu_X3
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by Snafu_X3 » Thu, 6. May 21, 04:41

RegisterMe wrote:
Thu, 6. May 21, 02:35
Background - endless hours in all X games to date.
Likewise
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Current Status
Vanilla Terran start, I've got the HQ, I've got the Demeter and the Dolphin, [blah..] I'm trying to make money. It's slow.
Take a careful look at the contents of those 2 ships: CLS (for passenger taxi missions) should be available in at least 1, & you can use your Transporter Device to beam it over once you're close enough
Trading secondary resources isn't worth it
IMO trading /secondary/ resources is rarely worth it in any X3 game until you have a suitably large autonomous trade fleet: try trading /primary/ resources instead with those big TS's: they're not just there for Plot advancement (just as gate indicator lights aren't there simply to look pretty!) IMO Silicon is always a good idea until the (local) economy starts flowing properly..
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At some point I'll get enough cash together to put the Bofu station down, at which point it will be... similar.

That station will make a reasonable trickle of steady income if managed properly, at least while in plot-locked sectors. Don't discount it because you're not making millions instantly, & remember to pre-buy its initial required stocks while prices are still low!
I understand that this part of the game is effectively a tutorial,
Yes
Suggestions:-
1. Give each start half a dozen advanced satellites.
If you're fairly quick with some trading/passenger missions you should be able to buy out all the Asats in the local station (in my case Boron): (they don't get bought instantly IME). Provided you've done a money-making run or two previously ofc (see above for getting life support for passenger missions)
Wiki X:R 1st Tit capping
Wiki X3:TC vanilla: Guide to generic missions, Guide to finding & capping Aran
Never played AP; all X3 advice is based on vanilla+bonus pack TC or before: AP has not changed much WRT general advice.

I know how to spell teladiuminumiumium, I just don't know when to stop!

Dom (Wiki Moderator) 8-) DxDiag

Fulgrymm
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by Fulgrymm » Thu, 6. May 21, 05:20

The CLS he was referring to is the Commodity Logistics Software, which does indeed appear to be missing.

Snafu_X3
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by Snafu_X3 » Thu, 6. May 21, 05:38

Fulgrymm wrote:
Thu, 6. May 21, 05:20
The CLS he was referring to is the Commodity Logistics Software, which does indeed appear to be missing.
Commodity/Cargo Logistics Software was part of the Bonus Pack script set, which is no longer relevant (or installable) in FL: Cargo Life Support, however, is..
Wiki X:R 1st Tit capping
Wiki X3:TC vanilla: Guide to generic missions, Guide to finding & capping Aran
Never played AP; all X3 advice is based on vanilla+bonus pack TC or before: AP has not changed much WRT general advice.

I know how to spell teladiuminumiumium, I just don't know when to stop!

Dom (Wiki Moderator) 8-) DxDiag

Fulgrymm
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by Fulgrymm » Thu, 6. May 21, 05:51

Whatever, I'll let him correct you himself.

johneh77
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by johneh77 » Thu, 6. May 21, 06:04

I have got 15-20 hours in following the story line (Steam says 22).

It is a bit slower that AP but with that Cargo Life Support you get early on I have made most of my money running military transport with the start ADiscoverer. Leave the weapons in your HQ and you can carry up to 10 people.

My issue is I keep buying ships that show up for sale got to break that habit with nowhere to sell them yet.

First fab makes an OK but slow income with those first ships buying energy cells (I built it next to the needed resources and they supply the rest). I had to do it manually till the Paranid sector opened up with a EQ Dock then you can automate Just limit it to close sectors or they will wander to far.

SUGESTION: In early missions you should get blueprints for at least the 25mj shields if not all the low tier ones or have a merchant sell them if that isn't something you are supposed to build. Alternatively some factories I had 3 25MJ sields and several ships then had to steal 2 of those to put on a fighter.

I like to get some auto traders going before getting this far but without the software that isn't possible. It is frustrating. A few more fab blueprints and some ship automating software would help a lot with that. I feel I am far enough in that I should have something automated going by now besides one fab that I cant even upgrade yet.

Not sure where to put the bug reports nowadays as the forum has changed a lot. Not sure I want to tell about the one I love. I bought a Split SuperFreighter that has 58,000 cargo space! lol I'm sure that isn't intentional especially since it was in rough shape when I got it. The other bug I am seeing is symbols over stations without anyone to talk to with that symbol it has happened a handful of times.

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Hector0x
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by Hector0x » Thu, 6. May 21, 07:18

I didn't need to grind money at all. Got 2 million just from selling some silicone and rastar oil from the HQ. I think it's obvious that the void is basically tutorial island and that the story will give you more assets later. So there is no point in hoarding resources yet. Check your net worth. You start with way more than what is needed to complete the plot

dony93
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by dony93 » Thu, 6. May 21, 09:01

I really like this game. I like its plot and the exploration aspect. I also don't think it's slow, at all! Just go a little bit further in the main plot and you'll get a lot of useful items pretty fast...the first sectors are obviously a tutorial, and I'm sure that most if not all (and more) the possibilities we had in AP will be accessible in FL too. My advice is to not try to make money via missions or trade at first, just progress in the main plot.

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Milite Ignoto
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by Milite Ignoto » Thu, 6. May 21, 09:11

I found the initial plot fast and easy, honestly. Energy cells and BoFu aside, the HQ already has everything you need to complete the plot; and with the TS weapons there is more than enough money. You don't even need to trade. You even get a fully equipped M6 to fight with - something that wasn't a thing in AP and was gifted in TC only in the late Terran Conflict plot.
Plots in TC and AP were waaaaaaaaaaay longer.

ero_sk
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by ero_sk » Thu, 6. May 21, 09:59

Milite Ignoto wrote:
Thu, 6. May 21, 09:11
I found the initial plot fast and easy, honestly. Energy cells and BoFu aside, the HQ already has everything you need to complete the plot; and with the TS weapons there is more than enough money. You don't even need to trade.
This. In fact, you get so much for free that I'm only hoping it's just to kick off the plot and introduce the player to the game, and then we lose it all at some point to start afresh. If not then imho it will be too easy, and I'm going to start a new custom game when I complete the plot.

Cycrow
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by Cycrow » Thu, 6. May 21, 11:37

Virtualaughing wrote:
Thu, 6. May 21, 03:43
At early game you have to set the HQ not to sell anything which can be a MAJOR issue for the unexperienced.
If your HQ sell any stuff you will be screwed that I'm sure you have to restart the game.
This should be setup that way by default, trading is disabled unless you manually enabled it again

RegisterMe
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by RegisterMe » Thu, 6. May 21, 11:38

Thanks for all the responses :). It amuses me that the replies range from "agreed, it's glacial" to "what are you talking about, free stuff rains from the heavens and you don't need to do anything"! Anyway, more specifically, thanks to those who mentioned the CLS. The only one I knew of was the Commodity Logistics software. This might be because I don't think I tried to board something more than once, and never successfully managed it, in X3 / TC / AP? So I'm guessing that Cargo Lifes Support might have been to do with marines? Anyway, I'll see if I have that and try to work some passenger transport missions.

@Hector0x I did consider that, but was reluctant to sell that stuff off when I didn't know what the plot would demand of me in the future...

@dony93 I don't see how you can "not make money via missions or trade at first, just progress in the main plot" - you need at least Cr$ 280k to move a couple of the main plot steps ahead - but fair play to you if you've managed it :).

Anyhow, I should be back in the saddle with some more ideas this afternoon, thanks again.
I can't breathe.

- George Floyd, 25th May 2020

ero_sk
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by ero_sk » Thu, 6. May 21, 11:47

RegisterMe wrote:
Thu, 6. May 21, 11:38
@dony93 I don't see how you can "not make money via missions or trade at first, just progress in the main plot" - you need at least Cr$ 280k to move a couple of the main plot steps ahead
This can be done with what has been already mentioned above- by selling the contents of the transport ships you find in the void sectors. You can easily make at least 1.5 million out of it.

Virtualaughing
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by Virtualaughing » Thu, 6. May 21, 11:51

Hector0x wrote:
Thu, 6. May 21, 07:18
I didn't need to grind money at all. Got 2 million just from selling some silicone and rastar oil from the HQ. I think it's obvious that the void is basically tutorial island and that the story will give you more assets later. So there is no point in hoarding resources yet. Check your net worth. You start with way more than what is needed to complete the plot
If you sell the rastar oil then how will you get it if by any chance you have to build ships?


Anyway. I'm stuck with the
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agent mission. It had two row then it gone. No sigh in the player/diplomacy menu. I have docking clearance for all but one Paranid station. Guess which station I'm hostile to.... :(
Now I'm trying the pirate station old trick but no fixing mission.

Reverse engineered the demeter to build more.
X to X3 is MENU SUPERIOR!
I think Egosoft has already worked out our doom, because Xenon AI will reach the stars! :D

RegisterMe
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by RegisterMe » Thu, 6. May 21, 21:43

So I restarted, slowed down a bit, followed some of the tips in this thread (did I really need that Fragmentation Bomb Launcher???), have run a few passenger transport missions, and now I am way ahead of my previous saves progress in a third of the time.

Thanks for the help :).
I can't breathe.

- George Floyd, 25th May 2020

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alexalsp
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by alexalsp » Fri, 7. May 21, 11:49

<t id="280">SEWN Profiles</t>

How to decrypt SEWN ?

Fanchen
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by Fanchen » Fri, 7. May 21, 12:04

I suspect that's Satellite Early Warning Network.

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alexalsp
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Re: Feedback after 7.5 hours play

Post by alexalsp » Fri, 7. May 21, 13:10

I also thought so, but I decided to clarify with the addon developers ...

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