Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

[fireanddream]

I don't know a dedicated bug report/suggestion thread so I'm making a new topic here.

We know that the notoriety points increase exponentially when we go up the reputation rank. +1 is 10-32 notoriety points but +9 is 100,000-333,332.

Quests will gain us dynamic rep points (usually 30%-60% towards the next rank).

Bad behaviors will drop FIXED amount of points. So blowing up a ship at rank 9 will drop us from 90% to 89%, but blowing up a ship at rank 1 will get us shot on sight.

Now here the hilarious part.

I guess the dynamic relation system is scripted in the way that when we get notoriety with the Argon via a mission we drop 10~20% of that gained notoriety with the Paranid.

And if we are at rank 2 with the Argon and rank 8 with the Paranid, one transport mission for the Paranid will net us around 18,000 points and our Argon rank will drop from +3 to -2.

It was funny how I dropped off one Paranid dude off a station and all of a sudden I went from "a good dude" to "our moral enemies" with both the Argon and the Pirate.

I guess that may be an unintended side effect from the vanilla notoriety system.

[Klord]

I have discussed about this in some threads.

viewtopic.php?f=199&t=438159

viewtopic.php?f=199&t=438153

Dev team says its by design and less likely to change. But I wish for a workaround. Personally I would like to play a lone peaceful wonderer role trading and fighting for everyone. Looks like it aint possible here.

[Milite Ignoto]

Seriously? This is ridicolous. I understand that a decisive military action would change how the whole Commonwealth sees you, but this is too much. Why the Argons should care if you gave a ride to some random paranid dude?

What happens if you only fight the pirates?

[Klord]

Well, right now we loose paranid rep for killing Xenons in Argon space. How bout that?

[fireanddream]

Well, right now we loose paranid rep for killing Xenons in Argon space. How bout that?

Actually that kinda makes sense in a real-world scenario.

What would be your opinion of a guy worshiped by the Taliban or the ISIS? Of course the guy may be mowing lawn for grandmas, but you don't know that, most people only know that he is highly regarded by those two groups.

I wish the dynamic relation system takes into account the DYNAMIC notoriety gain via mission, say we gain 30% towards the next rank with Argon, we should lose 5% of the current rank with Paranid, instead of a fixed amount.

Compared to AP where you can buddy buddy with everyone this is new and exciting, and will passive-aggressively have me utilize the new diplomacy system. Not sure if a few vanilla bugs still exist (like when you get into negative rep with race and climb back to positive, their laser towers will still be hostile). I sincerely hope not.

[Klord]

Actually that kinda makes sense in a real-world scenario.

What would be your opinion of a guy worshiped by the Taliban or the ISIS? Of course the guy may be mowing lawn for grandmas, but you don't know that, most people only know that he is highly regarded by those two groups.

I dont get what you mean. A terrorist will always be a terrorist. A common enemy of mankind. There shouldnt be rep loss for missions bringing them down.

I wish the dynamic relation system takes into account the DYNAMIC notoriety gain via mission, say we gain 30% towards the next rank with Argon, we should lose 5% of the current rank with Paranid, instead of a fixed amount.

Compared to AP where you can buddy buddy with everyone this is new and exciting, and will passive-aggressively have me utilize the new diplomacy system. Not sure if a few vanilla bugs still exist (like when you get into negative rep with race and climb back to positive, their laser towers will still be hostile). I sincerely hope not.

That numbers seem to be acceptable. You loose 5% but gain 30% for the hard work you did. My issue is, currently I loose more than I gain. Please check the links I shared above. There are some snaps.

[Milite Ignoto]

I dont get what you mean. A terrorist will always be a terrorist. A common enemy of mankind. There shouldnt be rep loss for missions bringing them down.

This. Xenon are a problem to everyone, it's really crazy to lose reputation with any sentient being because you're destroying them. Of course, an exception would create an easy way to be BFF with everyone, but it can be circumvented by limiting the rep points you gain from that.

Seriously, while dynamic relations are a good thing overall for realism and roleplay, there should be a way to be a pacific merchant in good (or at least neutral) relations with everyone.

[darrund]

It looks like this is a game breaking issue, at least for me it is.

[Raptor34]

Well, right now we loose paranid rep for killing Xenons in Argon space. How bout that?

Actually that kinda makes sense in a real-world scenario.

What would be your opinion of a guy worshiped by the Taliban or the ISIS? Of course the guy may be mowing lawn for grandmas, but you don't know that, most people only know that he is highly regarded by those two groups.

I wish the dynamic relation system takes into account the DYNAMIC notoriety gain via mission, say we gain 30% towards the next rank with Argon, we should lose 5% of the current rank with Paranid, instead of a fixed amount.

Compared to AP where you can buddy buddy with everyone this is new and exciting, and will passive-aggressively have me utilize the new diplomacy system. Not sure if a few vanilla bugs still exist (like when you get into negative rep with race and climb back to positive, their laser towers will still be hostile). I sincerely hope not.

No it doesn't. These are nation states not a terrorist organization.
Or did relations deteriorate that much in FL?

[Klord]

After struggling so hard, carefully selecting missions. I finally managed to get all 5 races friendly. Have to say it was an annoyance and no fun at all !!!


pho gif

I havent deployed a single trader yet fearing that they will effect the relationship standings because buying and selling also has a negative rep hit. Honestly, I dont like this rep system. But theres no way to turn it off unfortunately.

[Aranov]

I agree, this is a little absurd.

Went from Guardian of Earth to Insurgent with the Terrans just for attacking Commenwealth (Paranid and Split mostly) ships in Pirate sectors. While I was still middle of the Terran unlock plot no less.
I mean it was a lot of Commenwealth ships, but still. I gain Rep with Pirates, who Terrans are at war with, hurting my Terran rep.

If anything they should be supporting the pirates imo. Makes playing a privateer a pain.

I think dynamic relations should only kick in when you have a sector or large (i.e high value) manufacturing empire.
Also a rare unlock that could "lock" rep with one faction at a time would be great. Maybe sending an agent as an "Ambassador" that lock rep for that time period?

[chip56]

The dynamics are really a bit extreme.
I was trusted courier (rank 4) with the boron. I accepted one mission to escort a paranid from BORON space to the PARANID sector next to it and to defend it against pirates.
Well i made the mistake to succeed and kill some pirates in PAR space. Now i am a declared enemy of the boron (-3) and my trader ships in the starting sectors tell me that they are too afraid to move...

I undestand a massive drop with the pirates. I even understand a minor drop with others. But that was insane. That one mission moved me to split distinguished associate (rank 6) from rank 3 too.

I understand wanting to make it hard to be friends with everyone but jumping 7 ranks from 1 single mission that was not even directed against that faction? That cant be right...
see here for a before and after:
https://ibb.co/mNwH6Ss

[Kim_Dim]

Dev team says its by design and less likely to change. But I wish for a workaround. Personally I would like to play a lone peaceful wonderer role trading and fighting for everyone. Looks like it aint possible here.

It's a pity! I'm not ready to fly into a deep minus after one mission.
Good luck!

[Milite Ignoto]

Dynamic relations are bugged as hell. The old Profit Guild <> Foundation Guild rivalry is nowhere to be found, Argon and Boron get mad if you kill paranids in pirate space.

Really, this is cool but need to be fixed.

[Cycrow]

thats because your gaining rep with pirates. Argon and Boron are enemies to pirates

[Snafu_X3]

I was trusted courier (rank 4) with the boron. I accepted one mission to escort a paranid from BORON space to the PARANID sector next to it and to defend it against pirates.
Well i made the mistake to succeed and kill some pirates in PAR space. Now i am a declared enemy of the boron (-3) and my trader ships in the starting sectors tell me that they are too afraid to move...

Boron are pacifists: they don't like it if you kill ppl, whoever they are & whether they're designated enemies or not Take a full look at the Encyclopaedia entry to see various impacts on race/faction/corp rep

If you had the opportunity you might have simply /disabled/ the Pirates enough to stop them from keeping up with your mission target, but with huge slow freighters etc that's likely to be difficult

There's a spoiler link in my sig for how to easily accomplish generic escort missions in TC; this method appears to still work in FL

[Hwitvlf]

Personally, I like the new dynamics. They're different so it takes a while to adjust mindset after years of playing TC/AP, but I welcome a variation in gameplay. It's a new puzzle to solve. You just have to choose sides and really pay attention to missions before you accept them. Thankfully, FL gives you all the info you need in the mission briefing to choose wisely.

So far, I've just limited my trader's range; the factory layout is such that they can still turn a decent profit without jumping across the universe. I pick a goal, like buying a certain ship, and seek out missions that will get me chummy with necessary faction.

The setup in TC/AP always struck me as ludicrous as you could spend weeks terrorizing a faction and then blow one pirate M6 in their home sector and all was forgotten. In FL there are significant consequences for your actions. That's a huge improvement in my opinion.

[Klord]

The setup in TC/AP always struck me as ludicrous as you could spend weeks terrorizing a faction and then blow one pirate M6 in their home sector and all was forgotten. In FL there are significant consequences for your actions. That's a huge improvement in my opinion.

I beg to differ in this regard. Last night I jumped from Paranid Enemy of Priest Xaar (-5) to Friend of Priest King (+5) from couple of transport missions. Thats a lot of rep change for random missions though it had some consequences.



Anyways, I like the fact that we can come back from damnation to friendship at ease. In AP, had to grind our asses out and options were limited. Added options are really really nice !
My thought is rep changes are a bit too much drastic and negative consequences for doing missions are a bit too much higher than we would like them to be.

[chip56]

Yeah, the concept is fine and the goal is clear. But i think that dropping 7 Ranks from a single mission is just too much if its a mission thats not targeted against that faction.

Maybe a check like
"was the mission target your faction or an ally? (example BOR and ARG)" (In real life you wouldnt act that harshly upon a food supplier as you would act upon a mercenary killing your people)
->if no: "Is your rep with the faction you are going to lose in low - medium positive range?" (ARG/BOR in this example) (In real life you might put in a trade embargo or make deals for them harder but you would not straight out begin bombing the factories of a food supplier just because they dared to sell some food to a different country you dont like. Or other real life situation: Switzerland did make deals with germany in WW2. Did the USA declare war because of that?)
->limit drop to max 1 rank

That way you would still have strong drops if you are already hostile or if you were very high or if you act directly against that faction. However if you just do a taxi mission somewhere or kill some xenon you wont suddenly be declared an enemy of the nation because of 1 mission. It would require a couple of missions. Each single one would have some impact but its not "oh damn, i am only rank 4 with a faction you dont like. Sorry i cant transport you to that station in the next sector because the other faction would then shot me on sight"

[teknosvk]

i station defend mission in argon space agains pirates made me from + 5 to -5 enemy of the paranid .. i mean really ?