Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

General discussion about X³: Farnham's Legacy.

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chip56
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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by chip56 » Tue, 11. May 21, 13:07

blackice7777 wrote:
Tue, 11. May 21, 12:56
Missions. It was just a simple xenon-patrol mission for 3 sectors marked as "Easy". The problem that next 2 sectors were the boron core sectors I'm not allowed to enter, and after very polite warning, the Boron military fleet striked against me. I think that simple mission should be classified in this case as "Impossible" with the record that I will have to enter enemy sectors and paid accordingly. (BTW, what if I would complete this mission? I would become a boron frined and the enemy of race issued the mission?)
That depends on how many ships you destroyed and where you destroyed them. It could go either way since it consists of two parts actually:

1) You actually would get some Rep with the owner of the sectors in accordance to the xenon ships you killed there. Which means you would get REP+ for Boron and their allies for any destroyed Xenon ships in the Boron sectors and Rep - for their enemies.

2) Finishing the mission gives a huge amount of Rep with the issuer faction.

So if that mission giver was a split or Paranid you would get a massive REP with the Boron at the end of the mission. If you killed a ton of ships in the Boron sectors you might offset the mission REP Malus. Most likly though you would end up with a minus for the Boron and a plus for the mission giver. At least thats how it went with my escort missions of a paranid from boron space. The minus from success was much higher than the plus from killing pirates in Boron space.

Midnightknight
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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by Midnightknight » Tue, 11. May 21, 14:29

Yeah i think the main issue is that you actually loose way to much relation when you gain something. In my game i even stopped my trader from my Free Bofu station cause it was ruining my rep with the splits ... And i was simply selling Bofu.

To be fair you should have military missions and civil missions. Military would make big hit on reputation cause you are actively helping a race against the others, while civilian missions should have a really limited hit if not at all. So delivering weapons to the split for example would make a big hit on Argon and Boron relations while taxiing someone shouldn't. The xenon defenses should be considered as benefits to everyone and not have impact like now, or really little.

Here the actual system for you to do farm for agents to fix your reputation. So in the end it fails to prevent people to be friend with everyone, cause you actually can do it. Farm agents in Teledi space and makes them improve relations with everyone. Secondly it force you to farm. So FL removed a lot of Unnecessary farm from the original games like the Hub (Oh god thank you for that), but in the end add it's own forced farming, what isn't so cool.

Finally there is apparently a mechanic preventing you to get the max rep with Argon if you are not dead enemy with Paranid and vice versa. Ok that's cool, that's the actual way to go, that make sense and this is not completely out of control. Why not focus on this one and remove the other, or at least soften it a lot? With this, when i reach the cap i know i need to take part in the war if i want a better relation, or if i want to remain neutral they won't share their tech with me. Once again makes perfect sense in term of story and gameplay.

PS: and what about the MK3 trader? We set him somwhere in space and look how he mess with the reputation of every race while going for the most profitable routes? Lol could be fun at a point but could get things even more out of hand.

Ilikethis
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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by Ilikethis » Tue, 11. May 21, 14:46

It's unplayable tier awful
Some equipment is locked behind specific race. Important equipment like Jumpdrive for example. You're forced to do lip service for Borons unless you enjoy playing without Jumpdrive. And even simple act of buying Jumpdrive is blasphemy for Splits.
The only way to deal with it is to steal/negotiate with help of Agents. But surprise, the Agent can fail and will fail over and over again wasting your time, tasks and influence. Even horrible boarding RNG system is more reliable than this.

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Klord
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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by Klord » Tue, 11. May 21, 16:16

Ilikethis wrote:
Tue, 11. May 21, 14:46
It's unplayable tier awful
Some equipment is locked behind specific race. Important equipment like Jumpdrive for example. You're forced to do lip service for Borons unless you enjoy playing without Jumpdrive. And even simple act of buying Jumpdrive is blasphemy for Splits.
The only way to deal with it is to steal/negotiate with help of Agents. But surprise, the Agent can fail and will fail over and over again wasting your time, tasks and influence. Even horrible boarding RNG system is more reliable than this.
Regarding Jump drives. You can buy it from Goners at Elysium of Light. Friendly folks. They also have transporter device.
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Saratje
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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by Saratje » Tue, 11. May 21, 17:06

I understand how the relations system works and a lot of it is great, but shooting down a Xenon K in Black Hole Sun shouldn't make me a terrorist in Terran eyes and an enemy of the priest duke to the Paranid. Perhaps it can be adjusted so that you only lose relation with opposing factions when:
  • You directly destroy their ships.
  • You take a mission for a faction and complete that mission (i.e. the Terrans won't like you helping the Argon out directly, but won't get angry if you happen to shoot down pirate or xenon ships in Argon space).
  • You attack ships belonging to allies of a faction.

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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by Prosik » Tue, 11. May 21, 17:47

Adding to this thread.
Killing a single xenon m in grand exchange delta reputation went from we don't like you
but you can dock here to get off my lawn or I am going to blow your head off with
NMMC a Teladi run mining company.

Where is the logic in this? Teladi sector Teladi company = loss in reputation
for killing a xenon? WHAT?

Seriously need to examine the reputation system and maybe make xenon unique
positive rep only.

Midnightknight
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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by Midnightknight » Tue, 11. May 21, 20:36

Trading makes you have exactly the same. You have an automatic trader buying wares to the boron and selling it to the paranid, just like all those traders of every race is doing in the new starting cluster and the split will end killing you on sight.

In X3:TC the player was a bit like a god, able to be friend with everyone, having the best ships and the best stations, but in X3:Fl the player is galaxie's bully, only there to be punished doing things everyone around is doing with no consequences.
That's a really rough change.

Also, you are in Argon space you take a mission in an argon station, but it's a paranid that gives it to you, you will drop in argon and win paranid reputation, making you a traitor. But the paranid on the same Argon station will be just fine, he is no traitor of course.

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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by Godalmighty83 » Tue, 11. May 21, 22:14

Really getting into and enjoying the game now that I have disabled DR, other than race relations going up a bit quick, which to be honest has been the case for TC+AP as well. Really suggest that folk who are running into issues with it consider the same as well.


Now I only have 2 annoyances left: The Terrans getting inspired by the Imperium of Man and lagging out their sectors with swarms of fleets. And my traders treating themselves to turbo boosters at *massive* cost to me.
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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by Snafu_X3 » Wed, 12. May 21, 01:43

Godalmighty83 wrote:
Tue, 11. May 21, 22:14
And my traders treating themselves to turbo boosters at *massive* cost to me.
DEVs, I'm curious: will NPC ships now actually /use/ Turbo Boosters (eg for escape/evasion) or is this simply an artefact of RNG settings? I'm seeing a /lot/ more NPC ships with TB installed than in the previous game versions (R & TC)..
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johneh77
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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by johneh77 » Wed, 12. May 21, 02:33

Their are many good things about this version and I kinda like the idea of dynamic relations but...

I just tried to retrieve a stolen ship (Osprey) the one who hired me was Boron the pirates who took it were also boron. I never succeeded but when they were mid way on every reload I got a major hit in rep with Otas, Terracorp and Yaki I also noticed a dip in Boron and Pirate relations. This was before it actually failed it was in process. How does this make sense?

Zanadu
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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by Zanadu » Wed, 12. May 21, 07:10

Perhaps a tech that doesn't broadcast to everyone that you interacted between factions. Balance could be a freeze to positive rep gains as well as the negative. You would think in this universe a VPN would exist, something something bay of pirates.

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Reimu Hakurei
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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by Reimu Hakurei » Wed, 12. May 21, 22:57

Godalmighty83 wrote:
Tue, 11. May 21, 22:14
Really getting into and enjoying the game now that I have disabled DR, other than race relations going up a bit quick, which to be honest has been the case for TC+AP as well. Really suggest that folk who are running into issues with it consider the same as well.
How is this done? Set all the SG_DYN globals to 0?

Psynix
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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by Psynix » Thu, 13. May 21, 19:19

Since i'm used to have good relations with everyone, i too need to get used to the DR yet.

The only real issue i have with them is that when i tried to get good relations with a faction, i noticed that they did not rise anymore.

So do i understamd that right that the reason for that seemingly is because my relations with the Pirates along with the Corsares are already at ist lowest (and therefore stuck) which means all Enemy Factions of them can not rise anymore because they are now stuck with them?

Which means i now have to track down the Dukes HQ to be able to send Agent there along with also getting better relations with the Pirates (which is a bit easier at least) and only when both like me more i can raise my standing with for example the Argons again (which are one of those that are stuck)?

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Klord
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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by Klord » Thu, 13. May 21, 19:32

Psynix wrote:
Thu, 13. May 21, 19:19
Since i'm used to have good relations with everyone, i too need to get used to the DR yet.

The only real issue i have with them is that when i tried to get good relations with a faction, i noticed that they did not rise anymore.

So do i understamd that right that the reason for that seemingly is because my relations with the Pirates along with the Corsares are already at ist lowest (and therefore stuck) which means all Enemy Factions of them can not rise anymore because they are now stuck with them?

Which means i now have to track down the Dukes HQ to be able to send Agent there along with also getting better relations with the Pirates (which is a bit easier at least) and only when both like me more i can raise my standing with for example the Argons again (which are one of those that are stuck)?
Did you try using an agent to influence and increase notoriety? You can see how much of an improvement it will make. Im not sure about Pirate & Dukes relations being tied together, Im with enemies of both of them. :D

I think even in lore wise, Dukes & Pirates dont get along. Someone please correct me if Im wrong.
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Godalmighty83
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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by Godalmighty83 » Thu, 13. May 21, 21:20

Reimu Hakurei wrote:
Wed, 12. May 21, 22:57
Godalmighty83 wrote:
Tue, 11. May 21, 22:14
Really getting into and enjoying the game now that I have disabled DR, other than race relations going up a bit quick, which to be honest has been the case for TC+AP as well. Really suggest that folk who are running into issues with it consider the same as well.
How is this done? Set all the SG_DYN globals to 0?
viewtopic.php?f=201&t=438356
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babayZ
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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by babayZ » Thu, 13. May 21, 21:53

Yep, the "dynamic relationship" is ridiculous. I had good rep with borons and argons, with pirates. I did a xenon patrol mission for Paranids -- and now almost everyone hates me (except split, paranids and strong arm).

The idea was nice, but so fierce penalties for the fact that someone likes you -- it's definitely ridiculous.
And there is NO EXPLANATION at all. How on Earth should I know that killing this xenon ship or doing this mission will drop my relations with another race to -5?

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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by babayZ » Fri, 14. May 21, 00:20

And after Borons got angry at me 'cause of paranids, they's atacked my station.
And after getting back notoriety with borons, I freaking have to fly to EVERY BORON SHIP and ask to cease fire.
But the ship's captain that attacks my station rejects to talk to me.

That's... really bad game mechanics. And it's rather incompatible with other game mechanics.

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Klord
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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by Klord » Fri, 14. May 21, 03:06

babayZ wrote:
Thu, 13. May 21, 21:53
Yep, the "dynamic relationship" is ridiculous. I had good rep with borons and argons, with pirates. I did a xenon patrol mission for Paranids -- and now almost everyone hates me (except split, paranids and strong arm).

The idea was nice, but so fierce penalties for the fact that someone likes you -- it's definitely ridiculous.
And there is NO EXPLANATION at all. How on Earth should I know that killing this xenon ship or doing this mission will drop my relations with another race to -5?
Are you playing the beta patch or the base game?

The patch has addressed the reputation status for a certain extent. But its not a complete fix so we will have to wait for a later update. Devs have acknowledged that theres an issue, its just not in the priority list though.
X fanatic. More of an X3 fanatic.
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chip56
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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by chip56 » Fri, 14. May 21, 10:23

Klord wrote:
Fri, 14. May 21, 03:06

Are you playing the beta patch or the base game?

The patch has addressed the reputation status for a certain extent. But its not a complete fix so we will have to wait for a later update. Devs have acknowledged that theres an issue, its just not in the priority list though.
Yeah its better in the beta but there are still cases where you move 7 ranks or so.
Did one mission for the pirates to collect medical supplies from a station. From -3 pirates to +5 or 6. And accordingly Rep loss for everyone else. That was bit more Rep than what i wanted, I only wanted to get to 0 or so so that i could do more defense missions against pirates again without fully angering them.

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Re: Hi team, dynamic relations can be hilarious at times

Post by Cycrow » Fri, 14. May 21, 10:27

It will take time for the rep from missions to adjust. Any missions that were available before the patch will still offer the same rep increase, so it only effects newly created missions

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