Ranking all the M2s in FL

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fireanddream
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Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by fireanddream » Sun, 13. Feb 22, 17:25

I feel it is interesting to talk about the M2s in FL because two small changes as well as various stat changes have differentiated their performances. One is the existence of cargobay shielding and drone repair, which allows the M2s to actually fight to the death on the battlefield instead of jumping out the moment their shield hits 5%. The other is the availability of the beam weapons on capital ships. Of course whatever ships we personally fly, even a weaponless caimen, is gotta be the most dangerous ship in the universe :lol:

No.11 - the fallen, OTAS Boreas
No amount of speed and maneuverability will compensate for a 37.5% reduction of damage output. The Boreas with its 6 frontal guns and 4 side guns will have to stick to bullying M7s from now on.

No.9 & 10 - the fun bros: Pirate Brigantine and Yaki Akuma
The quirky duo from AP gained access to beam weapons in FL, making them deviate even more from the standard M2s. A Brigantine can focus 16 PBC on a single target and can absolutely melt M6s and M7s from a good 6km away. However, the below average armament, shielding AND hull strength place them at a worse disadvantage against other M2s.

No.8 - the behemoth: Teladi Phoenix

We now have one of the only two M2s in the universe that can utilize a PPC/IC/GC triple switch. It has all the offense in the world strapped onto a gigantic bullet sponge that crawls. As a result, it shines with player direct control or in OOS combat.

No.7 - the aggressor: Split Python
In a way, the Python is your “Boreas at home”. Relatively fast and agile, with its rear turrets able to mount IBLs, the Python is probably closer to the old Boreas than any other M2s in the game.

No.6 - the yardstick: Argon Titan
The old Chinese saying “Sailing against the current; being pushed backward if not actively going forward” applies to the Titan. Going from AP to FL, the Titan was not improved in any way and is probably the slowest M2 that can utilize a 24 PPC/GC switch. Poor Argon, even their prized Griffon was power crept.

No.5 - the space crab: Terran Osaka
Though large and slow as ever, the Terran Osaka can slyly dodge a lot of hits by having an odd crab shape. The addition of FBC mounted on its side turrets gives it more leverage over commonwealth M2s that field a PPC/GC switch. 12 GJ of shielding is also nice but the lack of shield damage of PSP is the Achilles’ heel of all Terran capitals.

No.4 - the sentinel: Paranid Odysseus
The Odysseus used to be my favorite M2 in AP because of it being one of the rare M2s that are completely unfazed in the presence of multiple RRF missile launcher ships. Don’t you hate it too when a few RRF M8s and M7Ms show up out of nowhere and now your entire invasion is called off? The Odysseus retains its ability to mount PSG on its top/bottom/frontal/rear turrets, while gaining access to TBC on its top/bottom turrets so should you prefer a more environmentally friendly approach against missiles, you can do that.

No.3 - the Jibakurei: ATF Tyr
Fans of the Xenon K and the ATF Tyr should know very well the pain of a limited cargo space. The word “地縛霊”, or Jibakurei, is a type of demons in Japan that are bound to a specific location like a mountain or temple, and cannot leave under most circumstances. Tyr was not buffed and it is still barely able to outfit the best possible armaments. I suggest equipping EMPC/MAML instead of SSC on its top/bottom turrets to save a little space for E-cells and mosquitos, or have it never leave a sector.

No.2 - the usurper: Xenon K
Now we have one of the definite winners going from AP to FL. The speed, turn rate, armament and most importantly, the cargo space on the Xenon K are all improved. It does not have enough room to outfit a PPC/GC switch still, but GC all around with your choice of various beam weapons on all non-frontal turrets is still massive damage output. It is now the fastest AND the fastest turning M2 in X3 (not counting the Boreas). The old subpar M2 now has a strong argument for the best M2 in the game.

No.1 - the second-in-line: Boron Ray
I’ve long suspected that the Boron Ray was the second-best standard commonwealth M2 in AP, behind the fast and tiny Boreas, of course. Though it did not receive any upgrade, the Ray is still capable of utilizing an IC/GC switch which has the theoretical maximum damage output. It can also turn much faster than most other M2s, for one reason or another, but is a just a bit too large to dodge hits comfortably.

fireanddream
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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by fireanddream » Sun, 13. Feb 22, 17:26

Moving on to the M2+

No.3 - the question mark: Terran Kyoto
Since the introduction of the Kyoto in AP I have had this question: why would the Terran design an objectively worse ship than the Osaka and saw it as the upgrade? The Kyoto does have a hanger which leads to some interesting combat configurations. The Kyoto probably can beat the Osaka one-on-one simply due to its tankiness, but discounting the possibilities of missiles, I struggle to find a reason to use the Kyoto by itself over the Osaka.

No.2 - the defiant: Boron Megalodon
The Megalodon is the other one of the two ships that can field a PPC/IC/GC triple switch to squeeze out every last bit of performance from each type of the capital weapons. If the Ray was a bit too clunky to dodge incoming hits, the Megalodon completely abandons evasive maneuvers and just aims to destroy the opponent before being destroyed. It did not buy into the beam weapon trend, however, so missiles will be a problem.

No.1 - the presence: Xenon I
Xenon I’s exhaust flaring up is the equivalence of the start of boss music, demanding immediate attention from its enemies. Already a powerhouse in AP, the I has now access to beam weapons on non-frontal turrets which pushes the I’s outfit versatility to above and beyond. Shame that its ship design in X4 seems underwhelming to me compared to what we have in AP and FL.

No.? - the Spec Ops: Split Pteranodon
The Pteranodon is mostly a player trophy in AP due to the difficulty of acquiring PALC and the fact that the side turrets were meant to mount them. In FL, the ship retains its biggest advantage - having both side turrets firing forward, while gaining access to IBL on them. This is a huge game changer since now it can focus 8 PPC + 16 IBL on a single target. PALC is still useful on the ship as a fighter/missile counter weapon. With clever turret configuration, the Pteranodon has infinite potentials in the player’s hand.

No.? - the Schrödinger's ace: ATF Valhalla
Just like in AP, the Valhalla is either pretty much worthless or a massive powerhouse, depending on whether or not you are present in the sector. It’s kinda poetic, really.

Sovereign01
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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by Sovereign01 » Sun, 13. Feb 22, 19:41

The Kyoto's strength comes from its ability to dock M6, M8 and TS ships, making it an ideal platform to carry bombers and supply them with missiles. In AP I would carry a Claymore and Auster and a Mistral SF of each missile.

Hwitvlf
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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by Hwitvlf » Mon, 14. Feb 22, 04:28

Schrodinger's ace ha ha. I agree with most of your list but there are a lot of variables of course. I do think beam weapons are undervalued in the list - specifically Plasma Beam Cannons. The Brigantine is unbeatable in the players hands and even on autopilot I've found it destroys most M2's before taking hull damage and is immune to missiles and fighters if configured properly.

All capital projectile weapons miss a good percentage of the time and are almost useless against fighters so their DPS isn't nearly as high as it might sound on paper.

BrigandPhantos77
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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by BrigandPhantos77 » Mon, 14. Feb 22, 05:04

The Kariudo makes a wonderful support ship for anything in this list. It might not be able to take much in hits, but the beam weapons on it is nice.
Peace is a state of mind!
War is absolute!
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rudi_pioneer
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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by rudi_pioneer » Sat, 19. Feb 22, 04:05

I've just tried Brigantine based on recommendations since I love beams, and let's just say I have my favorite ship now... I'm zooming around and melting stuff with PBC and it's amazing. IBL is so-so, but it's only in slots that don't fit PBC.

Sovereign01
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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by Sovereign01 » Sat, 19. Feb 22, 06:59

rudi_pioneer wrote:
Sat, 19. Feb 22, 04:05
I've just tried Brigantine based on recommendations since I love beams, and let's just say I have my favorite ship now... I'm zooming around and melting stuff with PBC and it's amazing. IBL is so-so, but it's only in slots that don't fit PBC.
Well, now I have to give the Brigantine another go. It's already fully armed so it's time to see how it fares against the Yaki! :twisted:

Hwitvlf
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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by Hwitvlf » Sat, 19. Feb 22, 18:20

I find Gauss Cannons work well in the forward turret to conserve power for the PBCs. Since there are only 4 slots, 10 rounds of ammo is usually sufficient for my needs.

What turret configuration are you guys using for the PBC?
The best I've found is setting the priorities to: missiles, large ships, corvettes, fighters.

Sovereign01
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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by Sovereign01 » Sat, 19. Feb 22, 19:35

Hwitvlf wrote:
Sat, 19. Feb 22, 18:20
I find Gauss Cannons work well in the forward turret to conserve power for the PBCs. Since there are only 4 slots, 10 rounds of ammo is usually sufficient for my needs.

What turret configuration are you guys using for the PBC?
The best I've found is setting the priorities to: missiles, large ships, corvettes, fighters.
I've been lazy and set all my turrets to "protect ship", I should probably set the big guns to "attack capitals" and the small ones to "attack fighters" or something.

fireanddream
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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by fireanddream » Sun, 20. Feb 22, 08:13

Hwitvlf wrote:
Sat, 19. Feb 22, 18:20
I find Gauss Cannons work well in the forward turret to conserve power for the PBCs. Since there are only 4 slots, 10 rounds of ammo is usually sufficient for my needs.

What turret configuration are you guys using for the PBC?
The best I've found is setting the priorities to: missiles, large ships, corvettes, fighters.
PBC's hull damage is a bit higher than PPC, so on front/side turrets I treat it as a capital weapon to autoswitch. I changed the turret settings for attack fighter to prioritize missles anyway.

Jimmy C
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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by Jimmy C » Sun, 20. Feb 22, 11:47

Hwitvlf wrote:
Sat, 19. Feb 22, 18:20
What turret configuration are you guys using for the PBC?
The best I've found is setting the priorities to: missiles, large ships, corvettes, fighters.
You can set priorities? I thought FL didn't have custom turret commands.

fireanddream
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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by fireanddream » Sun, 20. Feb 22, 16:17

Jimmy C wrote:
Sun, 20. Feb 22, 11:47
Hwitvlf wrote:
Sat, 19. Feb 22, 18:20
What turret configuration are you guys using for the PBC?
The best I've found is setting the priorities to: missiles, large ships, corvettes, fighters.
You can set priorities? I thought FL didn't have custom turret commands.
It's in the upper left corner, under advanced command or something.

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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by Jimmy C » Sun, 20. Feb 22, 17:36

fireanddream wrote:
Sun, 20. Feb 22, 16:17

It's in the upper left corner, under advanced command or something.
It's under the Personal Menu, Global Commands, Advanced Turret Commands. Thanks, I really needed that. Now that it can set priorities for all turret commands, it's even better!

Hwitvlf
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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by Hwitvlf » Sun, 20. Feb 22, 17:44

Sovereign01 wrote:
Sat, 19. Feb 22, 19:35
I've been lazy and set all my turrets to "protect ship".
Ha, if you don't die, it aint lazy! I've been hunting jump beacons on Rapid Response ships so I really need the missile defense.
Jimmy C wrote:
Sun, 20. Feb 22, 11:47
You can set priorities? I thought FL didn't have custom turret commands.
Yep, as fireanddream says, they moved it to Global Commands. I think it's a more intuitive location, but it took me awhile to find it also. This is the configuration I use for Beam weapons.
Image

Brinnie
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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by Brinnie » Mon, 21. Feb 22, 11:37

Do I understand correctly, the turret configuration also switches lasers?

Does that mean:


- If the ship has sufficient lasers, when set to attack fighters, the turrets will autoswitch lasers?
- If (as in the example above) the priorities are missile defence>attack capital>attack fighter the guns will switch dynamically in midfight ?

fireanddream
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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by fireanddream » Mon, 21. Feb 22, 12:29

Brinnie wrote:
Mon, 21. Feb 22, 11:37
Do I understand correctly, the turret configuration also switches lasers?

Does that mean:


- If the ship has sufficient lasers, when set to attack fighters, the turrets will autoswitch lasers?
- If (as in the example above) the priorities are missile defence>attack capital>attack fighter the guns will switch dynamically in midfight ?
Of course. Not only so, they will analyze the shield/hull damage of a weapon, maybe even the bullet speed, to determine which guns to use under what circumstances. That's why I talk about PPC/GC switch so much because autoswitching to GC after PPC brings the shield down will kill capitals like 40% faster.

Sovereign01
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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by Sovereign01 » Mon, 21. Feb 22, 14:38

It's always interesting watching your turrets switch lasers during a skirmish, it's why it's a good idea to carry a variety of weaponry to cover as many bases as you can.

I'll have to configure the turrets on my M2s a bit differently since unlike with M7s, most of them do not have a main battery I can control directly so I need to set them to attack my target.

I'm going to have to balance the loadouts of ships that can mount the IC/PPC/GC because of the enormous amount of cargo space the Ion Cannon takes up, in the case of the Megalodon up to 36 of the things compared to 24 for the Phoenix with the same cargo capacity. Were it not for the 2km range advantage the Photon Pulse enjoys I'd forego it completely for ships that can mount the Ion and Gauss cannons.

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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by Brinnie » Mon, 21. Feb 22, 15:43

fireanddream wrote:
Mon, 21. Feb 22, 12:29
Brinnie wrote:
Mon, 21. Feb 22, 11:37
Do I understand correctly, the turret configuration also switches lasers?

Does that mean:


- If the ship has sufficient lasers, when set to attack fighters, the turrets will autoswitch lasers?
- If (as in the example above) the priorities are missile defence>attack capital>attack fighter the guns will switch dynamically in midfight ?
Of course. Not only so, they will analyze the shield/hull damage of a weapon, maybe even the bullet speed, to determine which guns to use under what circumstances. That's why I talk about PPC/GC switch so much because autoswitching to GC after PPC brings the shield down will kill capitals like 40% faster.

I didn't know that, actually I was under the impression that AI ships (belonging to the player) were particularly bad at target/gun assessment - like firing anti-capital ship weapons at any target as soon as they came into weapons range, even if that would be PPC vs M5. So I also, mistakenly, believed that the only way to give freedom of choice on the arsenal to the AI would be with the assistance of scripts like: CODEA, MEFOS, SMART, etc... and I personally use WSE to manually change weapons for the bigger ships.

What puzzles me is how do the ships cope with the custom config that you set up, with missile defence and attack capital instruction, I mean it would seem that they would have to choose either one or the other. Basically if they install antimissile weapons they would take a battering from the capital ships as long as there are active missile threats.

Also what do they favour in choice of weapons per category, meaning for ex. against fighters PACs, PBE, etc?

Could you explain if possible how you set them up to autoswitch between PPC and GC.


@Sovereign01

Yes I will be doing a bit of turret watching.


ps. does all the above applies to M3s too?

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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by fireanddream » Mon, 21. Feb 22, 16:23

Brinnie wrote:
Mon, 21. Feb 22, 15:43


I didn't know that, actually I was under the impression that AI ships (belonging to the player) were particularly bad at target/gun assessment - like firing anti-capital ship weapons at any target as soon as they came into weapons range, even if that would be PPC vs M5. So I also, mistakenly, believed that the only way to give freedom of choice on the arsenal to the AI would be with the assistance of scripts like: CODEA, MEFOS, SMART, etc... and I personally use WSE to manually change weapons for the bigger ships.

What puzzles me is how do the ships cope with the custom config that you set up, with missile defence and attack capital instruction, I mean it would seem that they would have to choose either one or the other. Basically if they install antimissile weapons they would take a battering from the capital ships as long as there are active missile threats.

Also what do they favour in choice of weapons per category, meaning for ex. against fighters PACs, PBE, etc?

Could you explain if possible how you set them up to autoswitch between PPC and GC.


@Sovereign01

Yes I will be doing a bit of turret watching.


ps. does all the above applies to M3s too?
I have seen AI ships switching into faster projectile weapons against fighters, but I could be imagining it. However, I also think they don't distinguish between all the fighter/corvette weapons in terms of projectile speed. I personally recommend turret switching for only the heavy weapons and beam weapons to reduce battle field chaos.

Fighters can turret switch if you toggle on autoswitch for a particular command that the turrets are running. "Attack fighters" default to autoswitch: off, but if you change it to on and set a turret on a fighter to "attack fighters", it will switch. It's command bound, not ship bound.

The commands will strictly follow the priorities set by you, and therefore I have "missile defense" at a very low priority for turrets I know would be focusing on capital ships, for example, the frontal/left/right turrets on an M2.

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Re: Ranking all the M2s in FL

Post by fireanddream » Mon, 21. Feb 22, 16:31

Sovereign01 wrote:
Mon, 21. Feb 22, 14:38
It's always interesting watching your turrets switch lasers during a skirmish, it's why it's a good idea to carry a variety of weaponry to cover as many bases as you can.

I'll have to configure the turrets on my M2s a bit differently since unlike with M7s, most of them do not have a main battery I can control directly so I need to set them to attack my target.

I'm going to have to balance the loadouts of ships that can mount the IC/PPC/GC because of the enormous amount of cargo space the Ion Cannon takes up, in the case of the Megalodon up to 36 of the things compared to 24 for the Phoenix with the same cargo capacity. Were it not for the 2km range advantage the Photon Pulse enjoys I'd forego it completely for ships that can mount the Ion and Gauss cannons.
Ah yes, 2km is quite a few volleys, even more if the two ships are not flying towards each other. Overall I find IC to be fairly underwhelming considering how bringing down the shield is a minor part of destroying a ship. Losing that 2km range almost puts the IC at an even ground with the PPC, although the sheer amount of damage from IC always astonish me whenever I get to see it.

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