Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

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v_make
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Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by v_make » Tue, 5. Jul 22, 21:19

1.96b-2.14b/mission, jump beacon fraud

Sell the beacons infinitely, Jimmy C's method.

In a ship delivery mission:
- have <=7 beacons on board the required ship
- dock the required ship at the station
- choose to transfer the ownership of that ship and get paid for everything on board
- the required ship slowly undocks, but it's still your property
- transfer the beacons back to your own ship
- the required ship jumps into oblivion

The following theory is untested. It is possible to get a higher number since it's still some way from the overflown at 2147483647. The income of n beacons would be

280666667n % 4294967296 - 4294967296, if 280666667n % 4294967296>2147483647
280666667n % 4294967296, otherwise

7 beacons 1964666669
38 beacons 2075398758
84 beacons 2101163558
130 beacons 2126928358
Be sure to count the mission reward too.

1.68b/30min in game, jump beacon farming

Using exploit of Hephaistos construction to get jump beacon off beacon deployment saber. I use this method for jump beacon farming, but it is still the fastest way of credit making.

prerequisite

- Scorpion with 6 PBE, fully upgraded, with system override software, boost extension, and transporter device
- (optional) an empty sector with only one gate
- a ship for beacon storage parked near the gate
- ~10m credits every time (for hiring the company)
- a bait complex plan with a cheapest station
- hotkey for freight exchange

procedure

- deploy the bait complex at the far end of a sector (>150km from gate)
- piloting Scorpion, wait until saber appear
- do all the following 6 times
- follow saber and activate auto piloting, and save the game at less than 800m
- with auto aim activated, open fire until weapon energy runs out (about 2 seconds)
- if you see the saber keeps dropping speed (it bailed!), continue, otherwise reload
- slightly change your direction to a little lower (thus deactivating autopilot), hold the tab to accelerate (not necessary though), with the mouse clicking on the saber, wait until close enough and smash 'claim'
- click the saber and activate freight exchange, transport the beacon to yourself, fly back to the gate and wait for the next saber

if the ship somehow exploded before you finished freight exchange, try to estimate the time span before it exploded, reload the save and wait the time span, then open fire. The mechanics behind is that the game checks every 30 seconds, so each bail could have 0-30 seconds before it exploded.

With SETA, normally it cost about 20 minutes for 6 bails in real life, depending on your luck and game reloading speed.

140m/trade run, at max, theoretically, smuggling

- spacefly eggs black market, a shipload (about 16000 cargo size) of which can earn you 70m/trade run (need 220m as base capital). So an Owl Miner XL with 31250 cargo can theoretically earn you about 140m per trade run
- using jump beacon at every black market can significantly facilitate the process, especially for slow freighters
- good thing about this method is that it scales quite well and one can earn money using this method even at the early stage of the game


>80m/boarding, Megalodon/Valhalla farming

Make boron your enemy and farm their Megalodon! I use the 'all seeing eyes script (theoretically vanilla safe if you save/load every time)' to locate Megalodons. Usually one will respawn at the Great Reef Gamma.
In the early game, I board megalodons to train my marines and to sell the ship for credits, in the late game I farm Megaolodons for gate defense.

Valhalla/Tyr (the Moon) can be farmed too, but with 2 significant differences from Megalodon in terms of boarding:
- generally, you cannot neglect its escorting Skirnirs otherwise the boarded ship will be destroyed in a matter of seconds after you acquire it, usually before you can jump it out
- it is usually equipped with a Hull Polarizing Device and other protection software, which will cause casualty even with all 5 stars marines, so enough hull damage will have to be dealt with to destroy them first

To destroy the Skirnirs, the most elegant method is the jump missile method, i.e. use the missile barrage command of an M7M to target a ship and then jump out of the sector before the missiles hit, this way destroying the ship causes no notoriety damage. Though 2 barrages (32 HHT) are sometimes enough to destroy 1 Skirnir, I usually use 3 to make sure. Thus an average cleaning cost of 3*16*4*50536~=10m is required for each boarding. Though generally more profitable each boarding, it's also more complicated and time-consuming.

40m/hour in game, Barren Shores chip complex

With the XXL-sized Silicon mines in FL, the maximum hourly output of such a chip complex is 40m, compared with 10m in AP.

The good news is that this is a fully automatic method. The bad news is the complex cost more than 4b to build and needs careful planning and additional manual upgrades.

Barren Shores is just an example because it's a sector with only silicon astroids. But you get the idea of how slow this method is compared with former ones.


5m/hour in game, 40 universe traders

This is the only way of increasing your trade rank. High trade rank means high mission rewards.

40 universe trader seems quite saturate.

Still, Majaglit and Maja Snails are such a headache when I notice them stuck in my traders' cargo.

Pay attention to sectors too far away from any jump gate, either deploy jump beacons (cost about 40 beacons IIRC) or do some blacklisting.


Notes

My own game went through the above in almost exactly reverse order, but I did not do the first two for credit making because by the time I found these two I have had enough credits.

Welcome to share and discuss.
Last edited by v_make on Sat, 30. Jul 22, 01:29, edited 8 times in total.
Regards.
Mark

BrigandPhantos77
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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by BrigandPhantos77 » Wed, 6. Jul 22, 07:17

Slightly easier than the Mega, you can farm the Duke's in Lasting Vengeance.

Target: The Zeus Carrier - Re-Spawns quite quickly.
While waiting for it, you can obtain also the Ares, Kraken, Cobra and Gannet which spawn at random up to 2 at once.

Heaven's Assertion (provided you are on good terms with the Paranid) is right next door and has a Shipyard for immediate resale.

Note: With all boarded ships, they should be repaired by a Drone Carrier prior to selling.

Make sure you frequently clear the escorts and random Nemesis that spawn. This is best farmed with M7M.
Peace is a state of mind!
War is absolute!
~ Phantos ~

Jimmy C
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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by Jimmy C » Wed, 6. Jul 22, 19:22

v_make wrote:
Tue, 5. Jul 22, 21:19

you can sell the beacon through ship delivery missions to avoid credit loss when sold directly at the shipyard.
Ah, no. Cargo onboard ships disposed of through delivery missions are 'sold' at the same rate as at the shipyard. So there's no difference in price if you sell the beacons on a ship at the yard or a delivery mission.

HOWEVER

There is one important difference between the two methods of selling. After you deliver a ship and get paid your reward, the ship will undock and jump out shortly. Before it jumps out, you can still access its cargo bay! That means you can retrieve the beacons and put them onboard yet another ship to sell!

Whether you dispose of the beacons via the shipyard or missions, put no more than 7 beacons on a ship to be sold. There's an overflow limit on the calculation of value of cargo on sold ships. More than 2 billion, it goes negative and you lose money instead. 7 beacons gets you 1.9 billion credits.

We discovered this last year and I reach 100b credits in just a few months of playing.

Compared to this, my next favorite money earner is but a footnote. But it has the advantage of being a fully automated regular money earner.

2.2m per run per ship, EBC complex with Manual Trade Run seller

Background:
  • The Energy Bolt Chaingun is the most value-dense item you can build in-game (only the beacons are denser, but you can't build them) All of its 151k value is contained within 1 Small-class cargo space. A ship filled with EBCs has more value than any other cargo filling the same amount of space.
  • Equipment Docks, Military Outposts and equivalent stations allow you to sell any weapons and missiles you have to them, even if they don't stock those specific items. This means, you can sell unlimited quantities of these unstocked items at these stations. Selling EBCs at non-Teladi Docks is the best way of milking credits from these docks. There is a condition, docks can only accept a maximum amount of an item at one transaction. The max for EBCs is 16. So you have to sell in batches of 16 at one time.
  • Manual Trade Run (MTR) comes with the Trade 2 software. It will allow you to instruct a ship to buy a good from one station and sell it at another, with the option of repeating the cycle indefinitely. If the station runs out of the good, the ship will continue to fly between the two stations without the good. But, if the station it is selling to cannot take all goods the ship has, the MTR program will stop. Can you see the implications of this in relation to the previous point?
So here's how you make money out of that:
  • Build a complex that produces EBCs. I suggest building in sets of 5 EBC Forges complete with the stations needed to feed them the resources they require. I call this a 5-plex, and consider it a fundamental building block of complex construction.
  • Use Trade Distribution to automatically move EBCs from the complex to a Boron Equipment Dock you own (there are many reasons to have one, the Boron one, that is) I suggest moving them to a ship docked at the Dock that then fills the Dock, also using Trade Distribution, allowing the first TD ship to go back to the complex for more EBCs right away.
  • Use MTR on a ship to buy the EBCs from your Dock and sell to a non-Teladi Dock indefinitely. I suggest the smallest and fastest M5 you can get. The guns are S-sized and you can only sell 16 per cycle anyway. Warning: MTR will buy all the goods available or fill its cargo bay completely, whichever is lesser. To prevent the MTR from halting, fill the cargo bay with stuff so that there's only 16 cargo space free for it to buy EBCs.
The EBC Forge produces guns every 59 minutes. A fully upgraded XXL EBC 5-plex produces 100 guns per cycle. Optimally, you should try to sell them at just under this rate. That's one batch of 16 guns roughly every 3 minutes. If you want to optimize the cycle time, homebase the MTR ship to a Trade Station (it has to be a Trade Station, and your HQ and Xenon Hub also count as Trade Stations) and enable reports. Then, you can see the time the ship took between sales in the Homebase's transaction records. This will let you see if you need to get a ship with a different speed, or maybe you can have more ships as MTRs.

At 2.2m every 3 minutes, it takes 44 hours to make 1b. The thing is, the MTR cycle is fully automatic and this system earns that 2.2m per cycle without further action from the player, indefinitely. The only further manual action that may be required is replacing MTR ships lost to enemy attack. Escorting or defending the MTR ships is inefficient. They're cheap and their cargo is cheap, the defenders would cost more than them. Just clear out any hostiles between the stations before setting another ship on the MTR cycle. I only lost the first MTR after it already earned me 1b.

v_make
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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by v_make » Wed, 6. Jul 22, 21:25

Jimmy C wrote:
Wed, 6. Jul 22, 19:22

Ah, no. Cargo onboard ships disposed of through delivery missions are 'sold' at the same rate as at the shipyard. So there's no difference in price if you sell the beacons on a ship at the yard or a delivery mission.
I personally haven't really sold any wares in this way but I read sth different here:
"Opportunity Sale" by using a delivery mission: From time to time you may be offered a mission which asks you to deliver a specific freighter to a station. By offering this mission the offerer commits himself to pay the total value of the ship - which includes the equipment and the freight! The player may take advantage of this and fully load the freighter with Nividium before delivery.
Regards.
Mark

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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by Jimmy C » Wed, 6. Jul 22, 21:38

v_make wrote:
Wed, 6. Jul 22, 21:25

I personally haven't really sold any wares in this way but I read sth different here:
Note that passage didn't mention how the "total value" was calculated. All goods have a min, max and average price, and goods on sold ships are valued at min price in FL as opposed to average in previous games. This is why selling Nividium via selling ships has been depreciated in FL. I know both the yards and missions calculate the value of carried items on the ship the same way because I've sold beacons at yards as well as on missions and 7 beacons nets me the same 1.9b in both cases.

v_make
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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by v_make » Wed, 6. Jul 22, 21:52

Jimmy C wrote:
Wed, 6. Jul 22, 19:22
  • Use Trade Distribution to automatically move EBCs from the complex to a Boron Equipment Dock you own (there are many reasons to have one, the Boron one, that is) I suggest moving them to a ship docked at the Dock that then fills the Dock, also using Trade Distribution, allowing the first TD ship to go back to the complex for more EBCs right away.
Building a weapon complex is on my schedule! Though I can duplicate almost every weapon at the shipyard I still feel the need to build one, that is, to produce weapons and shields automatically to avoid manual duplication. Then I would want to sell these weapons for credits when I get too many of them, using your method. Some questions:

- I know a Boron EQD can internal dock infinite M6s, but why do you still need a Dock when you can sell directly from your complex?
- I have a plan, to use the 'trade distribution run' command so that a ship can wait and fill (to reduce the number of trade runs so it does not consume too many jump EC) its cargo with a designated number of wares, then maybe jump directly (so make sure there's a little oversupply of EC at the weapon complex) to a beacon deployed near a target market dock. This way one large freighter should be enough and will work quite efficiently. I don't know if the sell command would have to be written multiple times so that each sale does not exceed the max amount a dock can take each time. This way one can produce any weapons because the selling is not limited by M5 cargo ships now.
Last edited by v_make on Wed, 6. Jul 22, 22:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Mark

v_make
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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by v_make » Wed, 6. Jul 22, 21:59

Jimmy C wrote:
Wed, 6. Jul 22, 21:38
Note that passage didn't mention how the "total value" was calculated. All goods have a min, max and average price, and goods on sold ships are valued at min price in FL as opposed to average in previous games. This is why selling Nividium via selling ships has been depreciated in FL. I know both the yards and missions calculate the value of carried items on the ship the same way because I've sold beacons at yards as well as on missions and 7 beacons nets me the same 1.9b in both cases.
Well, I haven't tried it myself in FL yet... Original post updated!
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Mark

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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by Jimmy C » Thu, 7. Jul 22, 04:37

v_make wrote:
Wed, 6. Jul 22, 21:52

- I know a Boron EQD can internal dock infinite M6s, but why do you still need a Dock when you can sell directly from your complex?
Short on time, so I'll only answer this one now. Complex can only store a limited number of items. It also only has 20 docking ports. The Boron Dock has unlimited ports for medium ships. These ships can serve as stockpiles for an unlimited number of goods that can be pushed to the Dock itself to then be sold.

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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by Jimmy C » Thu, 7. Jul 22, 11:31

v_make wrote:
Wed, 6. Jul 22, 21:52

- I have a plan, to use the 'trade distribution run' command so that a ship can wait and fill (to reduce the number of trade runs so it does not consume too many jump EC) its cargo with a designated number of wares, then maybe jump directly (so make sure there's a little oversupply of EC at the weapon complex) to a beacon deployed near a target market dock.
Hold on. You are confusing two different commands here. They are "Trade Distribution" and "Manual Trade Run"

"Trade Distribution" is the substitute for CLS in the previous games. TD allows you to automate moving goods around between stations and ships. I'm not sure if it can trade with NPC stations, but it definitely can't sell ustocked items even if it could.

"Manual Trade Run" automates buying and selling between two specific stations. This is the one that allows you to sell unstocked items to Docks. Remember, the command will break if the ship can't sell everything it has to the station.

About your plans: You don't set item quantity when using MTR. The ship either buys all available stock or fills its cargo bay, whichever comes first. This is what can cause the command to halt due to too much to sell. Because player owned stations can actually carry more units of any items than NPC stations. Using EBCs as an example, the player owned Dock can stock 100 EBCs, but the NPC Docks can carry only 16 at once. This is why its important to make sure the ship executing the MTR command always has just enough cargo space for the maximum number of the good to be sold and no more.

This presents a complication if you use the autojump and auto refuel commands on a ship running MTR. To mitigate this, start the MTR command while the ship is docked at the station where its supposed to buy the good to sell. If you do that, the ship will refuel first then pick up the good. If you started the MTR command while the ship is floating in space, it will pick up the good first then refuel, which can cause problems.

Personally, I don't recommend using autojump with MTR. If the MTR ship has enough fuel for jumping both ways, it can make a sale in under a minute. Unless your stockpile of that good is in the tens of thousands, you will sell out very soon and the MTR ship will waste EC jumping around with an empty cargo bay. One-way jumps may be worth it if the travel time matches your production rate of that good. Use the Transaction Reports to check.

Finally, I am not sure if you should leave a deployed beacon for these trades. They can be destroyed, and they are worth far more than any ship and their contents.

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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by v_make » Sat, 9. Jul 22, 01:48

Jimmy C wrote:
Thu, 7. Jul 22, 11:31
"Trade Distribution" is the substitute for CLS in the previous games. TD allows you to automate moving goods around between stations and ships. I'm not sure if it can trade with NPC stations, but it definitely can't sell ustocked items even if it could.
I just tested, 'Trade Distribution' actually works!! And is much better than CLS. The trick is to set 'wait' of both fill and unload to true. It will then wait until enough products are produced and sell the weapons to the dock one batch at a time, all automatic.
Btw, I also tested your method of jump beacon selling and it worked wonderfully, now I have enough credits to start building my weapon complex.
Regards.
Mark

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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by iXenon » Tue, 12. Jul 22, 19:49

Jimmy C wrote:
Wed, 6. Jul 22, 19:22
The EBC Forge produces guns every 59 minutes. A fully upgraded XXL EBC 5-plex produces 100 guns per cycle. Optimally, you should try to sell them at just under this rate. That's one batch of 16 guns roughly every 3 minutes. ... At 2.2m every 3 minutes, it takes 44 hours to make 1b.
Not sure if I get your calculation, but one cycle takes 50 minutes and produces 100 lasers that means two lasers each minute on average, correct? So, for 16 lasers it should take 8 minutes. How did you get 3?

And why do you rely on value-per-space if you use very small "selling pack" anyway? I'm thinking value-per-time is much more important and there are goods that are more efficient in that regard. I like your idea but think I can improve it, but now just want to understand it completely.

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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by Jimmy C » Wed, 13. Jul 22, 16:13

iXenon wrote:
Tue, 12. Jul 22, 19:49

Not sure if I get your calculation, but one cycle takes 50 minutes and produces 100 lasers that means two lasers each minute on average, correct? So, for 16 lasers it should take 8 minutes. How did you get 3?
I have to confess, I somehow misremembered. I had to fire up FL again (been working on finishing some other games before going back) to check. But it turns out that 3 minutes was one way. The actual interval between sales is actually just under eight minutes. That's is still just under the production capacity of an EBC 5-plex and that's the cycle time that takes 44 hours to earn 1 billion credits.
And why do you rely on value-per-space if you use very small "selling pack" anyway? I'm thinking value-per-time is much more important and there are goods that are more efficient in that regard. I like your idea but think I can improve it, but now just want to understand it completely.
Higher value density means you can use a smaller, and therefore cheaper, ship to transport the equivalent value. 16 EBCs can be carried in even the smallest M5 (except the Arrow) and is worth 2.4M (not 2.2 as I wrote previously, oops) Meanwhile, 2 PPCs (the maximum that can be taken by a Dock at once) takes up 200 XL space and is worth only 1.85M. The cheapest ship that can carry this is the Caiman at almost 100k. In contrast, M5s can be had for under 30k. Even if my preferred Pirate Kestrel is 72k and I use captures for the task. This is important, because as I said, there's no point in defending these ships during transit. So, the cheaper they are, the cheaper to replace them.

And until you sell the goods, higher value density means more value stored in a stockpile awaiting sale.

The EBC complex is also cheap to set up. For example, for the price of fully upgrading 5 PPC forges to XXL, you can get 6 XXL EBC forges.

Still, if you can find a better product to use MTR on, I'm eager to see it.

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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by Sovereign01 » Wed, 13. Jul 22, 20:07

Don't forget the upgrade time, it takes something like 20 hours to get a PPC factory from XL to XXL. The EBC forge doesn't take anywhere near as long, though I don't know the exact time.

iXenon
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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by iXenon » Fri, 15. Jul 22, 22:08

Jimmy C wrote:
Wed, 13. Jul 22, 16:13
Higher value density means you can use a smaller, and therefore cheaper, ship to transport the equivalent value. 16 EBCs can be carried in even the smallest M5... This is important, because as I said, there's no point in defending these ships during transit. So, the cheaper they are, the cheaper to replace them.
I agree, but once that ship destroyed you also loose the cargo and against this backdrop the ship price doesn't matter. Whatever it costs 35k or 135kk the cargo costs 2.4kk and that's much more important.
Jimmy C wrote:
Wed, 13. Jul 22, 16:13
Still, if you can find a better product to use MTR on, I'm eager to see it.
I haven't build such a complex as you described, only thinking what it should be. That's my calculation below.
The Energy Bolt Chaingun costs 151144 and the factory produces one piece every 50 minutes 24 seconds (50.4 minutes). So, it means 151144*1/50.4=2998.89 credits per minute or 179933 credits per hour. Then let's compare it with other wares:
Ion Disruptor: 280482*1/86=3,261.42 CPM or 195,685 CPH. A bit better, but the cycle time isn't good.

But what is the best? I see such candidates:
Ghoul Missile: 33692*1/10=3369.2 CPM or 202152 CPH. This missile is compatible with ATF Skirnir only and it means that it could be sold at any dock in the commonwealth.
Almost all missiles have the same CPM and CPH but the next one is the best from what I have found:
Dragonfly Missile: 1012*4/1.2=3373.33 CPM or 202400 CPH.
202400 credits each hour is a bit better than 179933, the delta is 22467 that means +13.6% to your result if I'm not mistaken.

But that is not all. There is something even better:
5 MJ Shield: 23372*3/20=3505.8 CPM or 210348 CPH that means +16.9% in comparison with EBC. And the good thing here that the cycle time is exactly 1/3 of an hour that gives us simple calculation. And the Ware Volume is only 3 that is also good. The problem here that docks accept 110 at once and if we want to sell the maximum amount at once we have to produce some amount we can divide by 110 without remainder. The most obvious number is 990 or 1098 (exactly 1100 isn't possible to produce, but this number is very close) but in that case we have to use factories with different upgrade levels that Complex Planner doesn't allow, for example 5 XXL stations and 1 XL of the same type. Other options - use 11 XXL stations to produce double amount of 1980 5 MJ Shields per hour, but the complex could be quite expensive.

I'm still thinking about it, but the idea is to use a ware with best credits-per-minute value rather than credits-per-cargo value. What do you think?

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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by Jimmy C » Sat, 16. Jul 22, 16:16

iXenon wrote:
Fri, 15. Jul 22, 22:08

I agree, but once that ship destroyed you also loose the cargo and against this backdrop the ship price doesn't matter. Whatever it costs 35k or 135kk the cargo costs 2.4kk and that's much more important.
Not quite. If the ship only gets intercepted after it's sold its load, you only lose the ship. So far, my losses have been 50-50 with cargo or no. On the other hand, yes, it's 2.4M, but I got plenty more waiting to be sold.

But things are different now that I know Trade Distribution can sell unstocked items to Docks thanks to V_make. I can pack many more EBCs into a larger ship. Although there's a risk of losing a bigger load, the ship travels less frequently and it's now practical to use JD to reduce exposure even further.
But that is not all. There is something even better:
5 MJ Shield: 23372*3/20=3505.8 CPM or 210348 CPH that means +16.9% in comparison with EBC. And the good thing here that the cycle time is exactly 1/3 of an hour that gives us simple calculation. And the Ware Volume is only 3 that is also good. The problem here that docks accept 110 at once and if we want to sell the maximum amount at once we have to produce some amount we can divide by 110 without remainder.
I'll just compare EBCs to this. 1 load of 110 5mj shields takes up 330 space. This takes an XXL factory 2 cycles to produce, that's 32 minutes. If an S factory produces 3 shields per cycle then the XXL produces 60, right? 110 shields is worth 2,570,920. There's only time for 2 cycles until the EBC forge completes one cycle, so 60x2x23,372=2,804,640.
What about the EBC? An XXL EBC forge produces 20 EBCs per cycle. That's worth 3,022,880.
The EBCs also only take up 20 space compared to the shields which take up 60x2x3=360 space. Want to know how much 360 EBCs are worth? 54,411,840. If you were carting 360 space of stuff to be sold at a Dock, would you prefer EBCs or Shields?

The matter with credits over time is that goods are not produced at a continuous rate but at discrete intervals at the completion of production cycle. So you either get all the money then or none in between.

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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by iXenon » Sat, 23. Jul 22, 11:27

v_make wrote:
Sat, 9. Jul 22, 01:48
I just tested, 'Trade Distribution' actually works!! And is much better than CLS. The trick is to set 'wait' of both fill and unload to true. It will then wait until enough products are produced and sell the weapons to the dock one batch at a time, all automatic.
Hi, are you sure it will sell goods instead of just deliver them without being paid? For me it works exactly in that way - it moves the goods but earns no money for that! :evil:

UPD: I should have checked the station account - money are there! :mrgreen:

UPD2: It works for me now, but the ship with TDR doesn't wait till enough product is produced. It takes some and goes to sell. Did you see such behavior?
Last edited by iXenon on Sat, 23. Jul 22, 16:08, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by iXenon » Sat, 23. Jul 22, 13:23

Jimmy C wrote:
Sat, 16. Jul 22, 16:16
I'll just compare EBCs to this. 1 load of 110 5mj shields takes up 330 space. This takes an XXL factory 2 cycles to produce, that's 32 minutes. If an S factory produces 3 shields per cycle then the XXL produces 60, right? 110 shields is worth 2,570,920. There's only time for 2 cycles until the EBC forge completes one cycle, so 60x2x23,372=2,804,640.
What about the EBC? An XXL EBC forge produces 20 EBCs per cycle. That's worth 3,022,880.
The EBCs also only take up 20 space compared to the shields which take up 60x2x3=360 space. Want to know how much 360 EBCs are worth? 54,411,840. If you were carting 360 space of stuff to be sold at a Dock, would you prefer EBCs or Shields?

The matter with credits over time is that goods are not produced at a continuous rate but at discrete intervals at the completion of production cycle. So you either get all the money then or none in between.
Sorry for the late answer, was busy with my shield complex. 8) No doubt that EBC if more effective if we talk about cargo, I'm fully agree with that. The only thing that's still not clear for me that why it matters.
If we compare fabrics with different cycle time then we shouldn't rely on that time. One fabric produces goods for 1m each 10 cycle of minutes, another 2m each cycle of 20 minutes and third one 6m each cycle of 1 hour. Which is more profitable? Simple calculation shows that each of them earns 6m per hour, so they are equivalent.

EBC cycle time is 50 minutes (let's don't count some seconds here) while 5MJ Sh cycle time is 20 minutes, so it's better to compare fabrics when they both finish their cycles at the same time. And this time interval is 100 minutes which means 2x cycle for EBC and 5 cycles for 5MJ Shields.
An EBC XXL will produce 151,144*20*2=6,045,760 (2 cycles with 20 pieces per cycle)
An 5MJ XXL will produce 23,372*60*5=7,011,600 (5 cycles with 60 pieces per cycle) for exactly same time interval that means it's ~16% more effective.

In result, it means one additional million per XXL fabric each 100 minutes or, if we have 5-plex XXL complex, it will be additional 50k every minute. That's why I decided to build 5 MJ Shield complex instead of EBC complex. But I like your idea in general and v_make's finding for that TDR solution will help to get a lot of money in the game. :)

And answering for that question:
Jimmy C wrote:
Sat, 16. Jul 22, 16:16
If you were carting 360 space of stuff to be sold at a Dock, would you prefer EBCs or Shields?
Of course, I'd prefer EBC but it will take more time to get EBCs for the same money as it could be done for 5 MJ shields. That's the point.

v_make
Posts: 59
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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by v_make » Sun, 24. Jul 22, 04:24

iXenon wrote:
Sat, 23. Jul 22, 11:27
UPD2: It works for me now, but the ship with TDR doesn't wait till enough product is produced. It takes some and goes to sell. Did you see such behavior?
What I can confirm is that TDR will wait until enough products are produced if you explicitly set 'true' to 'wait' on the load/fill command.
Regards.
Mark

Jimmy C
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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by Jimmy C » Sun, 24. Jul 22, 17:12

v_make wrote:
Sun, 24. Jul 22, 04:24

What I can confirm is that TDR will wait until enough products are produced if you explicitly set 'true' to 'wait' on the load/fill command.
In my experience, if "wait" is "yes" then the Load command actually waits to get the full specified quantity. Fill takes one batch of items, then moves on to the next instruction, whether you set "wait" to "yes" or "no". I haven't gotten around to seeing if Unload and Stock behave the same way. However, those two commands have their own issues. Namely, the quantity limit setting on those commands are based on the cargo bay size of the ship running the command, not the destination, which is the more important number. This means, you cannot use those two commands to control the quantity of the item at the destination if the destination has a larger cargo bay than the ship running the TD.

v_make
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon, 10. Sep 18, 07:12
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Re: Credit making summary (spoiler warning)

Post by v_make » Mon, 25. Jul 22, 00:12

Jimmy C wrote:
Sun, 24. Jul 22, 17:12
In my experience, if "wait" is "yes" then the Load command actually waits to get the full specified quantity. Fill takes one batch of items, then moves on to the next instruction, whether you set "wait" to "yes" or "no". I haven't gotten around to seeing if Unload and Stock behave the same way. However, those two commands have their own issues. Namely, the quantity limit setting on those commands are based on the cargo bay size of the ship running the command, not the destination, which is the more important number. This means, you cannot use those two commands to control the quantity of the item at the destination if the destination has a larger cargo bay than the ship running the TD.
Yes, I did test load only... But if you can make sure the ship has 0 target ware before 'load/fill' then you can use 'load' as an alternative to 'fill'.
To control the destination quantity:
- I find that if it's your own station, then TDR will respect the min-max value set at the destination.
- Also, is the stock command not working?
Regards.
Mark

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