Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

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v_make
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Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by v_make » Wed, 6. Jul 22, 11:24

I summarized the credit-making method in another post.

As we can see, the fastest credit-making method is quite labor intensive and should be deemed as an exploit. Nonetheless, it takes 100b/1.68b/3 ~= 20 hours in real life at least to get the achievement.

The only viable automatic method is complex output. If we have 0.04b hourly output, it will cost 250 hours to achieve this in real life at SETAx10.

In an optimal situation, If we start at 0.04b/h (a complex worth more than 4b), and constantly use all the output to build new complexes, at 1% interest this will make 0.04(1-1.01^n)/(1-1.01) billion credits in n hour. That is, about 786 hours for 100b. Note this number is larger because it's without SETA.

Combining the former 2 with some strategy would make some seemingly reasonable outcome. For example, every 10 hours and use the collected money to double the hourly output. This strategy makes 0.04(2^n-1) billion credits in 10n hours, that is, 120 hours in real life to get 163.83b. Note the analysis is not really reasonable here because you can't just build some 16384 hundred-factory-complexes in X3... But may be we can just build one another which would half the rest time, making it 10+250/2 = 135 hours.

By far the most reasonable way is the 135 hours SETA method, aka. build enough complexes then wait. Any other ideas?

edit 20220709:
A weapon complex plan in Unknow Sector Beta of 41 XXL weapon factories (could sustain about 60 with imported ore from the nearby sector) shows a 1.7b/h income. Considering I'm already at 40b atm this will only take roughly another 40 hours in-game to achieve 100b if I build it and just wait. This is totally acceptable.
I just noticed weapon complexes are more than 10 times more efficient than chip complexes. (hourly income:total investment of 1.7b:12b vs 0.04b:4b) Should have started with this.

edit 20220710:
It's a bug!!! Argon Shield 2G and Boron SPP XL together will make the complex planner crazy. It shows ten times consumption and output. I did not notice the bug because I separate the crystal complex and the production complex, and there was a 10-time difference in crystal production and requirement between the two with roughly the same amount of SPP XL.
The actual hourly output is 0.32b at 81 XXL factory, at the investment of about 16b. So it's better than a chip complex but the offset could be partly explained by astroids of higher yields.
Well as of the 100b achievement it's still a long way to go.

edit 20220723:
After about a day in-game, I get the 100b achievement. The most contribution comes from Jimmy C's beacon selling method. Ironically, the complex I built at the start of my plan is still upgrading to L.
Last edited by v_make on Sat, 23. Jul 22, 04:35, edited 6 times in total.
Regards.
Mark

DanKara
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by DanKara » Thu, 7. Jul 22, 07:29

v_make wrote:
Wed, 6. Jul 22, 11:24
By far the most reasonable way is the 135 hours SETA method, aka. build enough complexes then wait. Any other ideas?
Not sure, that I understand your calculation ... but you seem to forget to actually 'play' the game. Mission-rewards, manual trading, selling of boarded / bailed ships may seem dribbles (each at its own compared to 100b) but especially at higher trade/fight ranks pile up pretty fast. Even more if you don't buy any (more) blueprints (as those are not counted for the empire net value). Simple taxi missions can get you some 20mio. Station-defense missions will present you (atleast) one M2 to board. Love to take Yaki Akumas and sell those for (?)75mio...
When the need is so great:
Show
Why don't you just collect 440 Jump Beacons? (HephCorp - a matter of ingame-days; or even bigger Cheat: Memory Hack - a matter of minutes).
You can also do some 100 'ship delivery'-missions with the same 5 Jump Beacons aboard (the delivered ship is still under your control after docking (handing over) until it jumps out of that sector). Exploit the Exploit.
[But don't ask me for 'reasonable ways' to Xtreme or Sneaky or Master Collector or Duked... :rant: :oops: ]

v_make
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by v_make » Thu, 7. Jul 22, 08:49

DanKara wrote:
Thu, 7. Jul 22, 07:29
'play' the game. Mission-rewards, manual trading, selling of boarded / bailed ships may seem dribbles (each at its own compared to 100b) but especially at higher trade/fight ranks pile up pretty fast. Even more if you don't buy any (more) blueprints (as those are not counted for the empire net value).
I'm currently at trade level 27, the problem with missions is that it's still too slow and too labor intensive to get 100b... Despite the 'very hard' transportation missions paying an average 0.1b at my level, it's hard to imagine finding and finishing 1000 such missions. I do collect blueprints for other achievements though.
DanKara wrote:
Thu, 7. Jul 22, 07:29
[But don't ask me for 'reasonable ways' to Xtreme or Sneaky or Master Collector or Duked... :rant: :oops: ]
But yes, there could be no shortcut for this kind of achievement because it is designed to be extreme, I just need confirmation.

And I haven't finished any of these :doh:
Regards.
Mark

DanKara
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by DanKara » Thu, 7. Jul 22, 10:17

v_make wrote:
Thu, 7. Jul 22, 08:49
And I haven't finished any of these :doh:
You know that 'Rare Collector' (and thus 'Master Collector') is bugged?
And that 'You have been Duked' is currently only doable if you create a situation, where the Dukes can buy some (20?) mercinaries with (preferably) 60-combat (or higher) from the pirates (maybe best in one go?), they will not do with mere marines from other factions (or from you).
And 'Sneaky' ... eludes me. The only police scans I can provoke are such from Goner police (no illegals there) or from the BlackMarket (that always break through my CargoBayShield). I would rather go SpaceFly-hunting again...

v_make wrote:
Thu, 7. Jul 22, 08:49
it's hard to imagine finding and finishing 1000 such missions
I think my statistics have logged some 600-agent-tasks spend. On an average 2-3-use per agent. Still 200-agent-rewarding-missions vs 1000 ... some way to go :lol:
Well ... on the road to Xtreme even such will come (me thinks).

Sovereign01
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by Sovereign01 » Sat, 9. Jul 22, 05:20

I got it using the beacons trick. Jump beacons- the gift that keeps on giving! :D

Note that to get the achievement, you need to manually bring up the net worth in the empire management tab since it distinguishes between the value of assets and number of credits. In effect, what proportion of the player's worth is 'liquid'. In my case liquid is the majority, because I only have five complexes even though one of them is a massive weapons complex cranking out every gun in the game except the ever-useless FBL. I was already committed in many areas before I knew what I was doing- case in point being choosing first sector to claim- I'd made the mistake of choosing Akeela's Beacon Beta when I should have gone with Dark Waters Beta instead. ABB only two asteroids, but they were both high-yield silicon ones so the complex I built was dedicated to producing massive quantities of Space Fuel & Weed to the tune of 8 XXL factories of each. Had I known what I was doing I'd have claimed Dark Waters Beta instead as that sector had significant deposits of ore which I could have done more with, but instead the Boron claimed it.

v_make
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by v_make » Sat, 9. Jul 22, 09:42

Sovereign01 wrote:
Sat, 9. Jul 22, 05:20
...I'd have claimed Dark Waters Beta instead as that sector had significant deposits of ore which I could have done more with, but instead the Boron claimed it.
It seems astroids in HSAP sectors are random generated at game beginning, as written in `3.10 RSM HSAP Management`.
Also, the sector takeover mechanic, is that the AI decides to take a sector at a given time, that the next HSAP activated will be taken. Also, the taken HSAP will be owned by the sector owner of its adjacent sector. Exploiting this, if you find out that AI is going to take the next HSAP you activate, try to activate an HSAP right next to your own sector instead (if there is one in your game) and it will be yours once you activate the HSAP while consuming one AI's takeover chance.
Regards.
Mark

Jimmy C
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by Jimmy C » Sat, 9. Jul 22, 09:53

v_make wrote:
Sat, 9. Jul 22, 09:42
try to activate an HSAP right next to your own sector instead (if there is one in your game) and it will be yours once you activate the HSAP while consuming the AI's takeover queue.
There are two HSAPs adjacent to player-claimable sectors, assuming either of them appear in your game. One in the unclaimed sector east of Unseen Domain and one in the unclaimed sector west of a xenon sector. I'd recommend that, if the first one is available as well as Unseen Domain South, and they're both rich in rocks, make sure you get both those sectors. Along with the unclaimed sector itself, that's three sectors on just one Hub connection.
I was planning to take the one in the unclaimed sector first, if I ever started a new game, but this sounds like it may be better to take Unseen Domain South first, is that correct?

v_make
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by v_make » Sat, 9. Jul 22, 10:27

Jimmy C wrote:
Sat, 9. Jul 22, 09:53
There are two HSAPs adjacent to player-claimable sectors, assuming either of them appear in your game. One in the unclaimed sector east of Unseen Domain and one in the unclaimed sector west of a xenon sector. I'd recommend that, if the first one is available as well as Unseen Domain South, and they're both rich in rocks, make sure you get both those sectors. Along with the unclaimed sector itself, that's three sectors on just one Hub connection.
I was planning to take the one in the unclaimed sector first, if I ever started a new game, but this sounds like it may be better to take Unseen Domain South first, is that correct?
If your plan is to take all those sectors, you have to try to find out when AI will take the next HSAP. This behavior is random as far as I can see, but persistent within each game so save/load will work. The general guideline is to exploit the AI's take-over chance for HSAPs adjacent to your own sector, and AI's not-take-over chance for other HSAPs to maximize profitssss!
Regards.
Mark

v_make
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by v_make » Mon, 11. Jul 22, 11:30

DanKara wrote:
Thu, 7. Jul 22, 10:17
And 'Sneaky' ... eludes me. The only police scans I can provoke are such from Goner police (no illegals there) or from the BlackMarket (that always break through my CargoBayShield). I would rather go SpaceFly-hunting again...
I accidentally got the 'Sneaky' while SETA in Goner space yesterday... It seems it doesn't matter whether you have illegal wares onboard (I have piracy command software but that does not seem illegal there).
Regards.
Mark

BrigandPhantos77
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by BrigandPhantos77 » Fri, 15. Jul 22, 19:37

v_make wrote:
Mon, 11. Jul 22, 11:30
DanKara wrote:
Thu, 7. Jul 22, 10:17
And 'Sneaky' ... eludes me. The only police scans I can provoke are such from Goner police (no illegals there) or from the BlackMarket (that always break through my CargoBayShield). I would rather go SpaceFly-hunting again...
I accidentally got the 'Sneaky' while SETA in Goner space yesterday... It seems it doesn't matter whether you have illegal wares onboard (I have piracy command software but that does not seem illegal there).
I had a whole cargo hold of Disintegrator Rifles disappear from the cargo hold of one of my transports mysteriously. The ship had Cargo Bay Shielding (standard equipment for my transports). It was going from Dark Water (Boron Trade Station) to Dark Water Beta (Marine Training Barracks). I have a FAB making them, but sometimes it's too slow to produce.

One could pose the question, did I really purchase them from the BM. Well, I have the transaction in my logs. So I paid the money. And the Customs / Police in Dark Waters are glitched and not moving. It's like they vanished as the ship passed the TOA. And I am doubting it was hacked, I've never been able to attempt the hack against a cargo bay shielded ship.

I've had Teladi scan my ships in Ianamus Zura a few times. But it's rare and now most of the police everywhere seem to be bugged in a standby state. They seem to ignore Pirates, Yaki and Xenon all around. Sometimes the military ships do as well.

Oh, and I got the "Sneaky" under suspect conditions as well. I think it gives it too you when they try to scan any ship and the Cargo Bay Shielding hides anything. But I also have the System Override Software and Signature Scrambler combo. So maybe that triggered it, even though it doesn't show as illegal. But I am thinking it came from my UT (An Athena which finally got insta-popped by a J in Bala Gi's Joy). It had a bad habit of trading in Illegal Wares. And I can't even take revenge against the J because of it causing a massive rep drop. :evil:

I'm at 27b net worth though. So that's progress towards the 100b achievement. Day 50 and counting. I think I will finish the progress through boarding operations.
Peace is a state of mind!
War is absolute!
~ Phantos ~

Jimmy C
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by Jimmy C » Fri, 15. Jul 22, 20:06

v_make wrote:
Wed, 6. Jul 22, 11:24

It's a bug!!! Argon Shield 2G and Boron SPP XL together will make the complex planner crazy. It shows ten times consumption and output.
This might not be a bug. I think it was Cyrow that said, the Complex Planner shows the output at twice the longest production cycle in the complex plan. So, if your longest cycle is 10 hours, the plan shows 20 hours of output. This is the only way to show whole numbers on all output. Takes some getting used to and you need to manually recalculate to get hourly numbers.

iXenon
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by iXenon » Fri, 15. Jul 22, 21:13

Btw, do you have such a bug with Complex Planner? Once I deploy a complex with Build Command Software MK3 the Complex Planner starts to show some non-existing resources in the complex and every time I have to delete the plan and add there the already existing complex. After that I cannot modify and tune it, but at least I see how it works.

Sovereign01
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by Sovereign01 » Fri, 15. Jul 22, 21:55

iXenon wrote:
Fri, 15. Jul 22, 21:13
Btw, do you have such a bug with Complex Planner? Once I deploy a complex with Build Command Software MK3 the Complex Planner starts to show some non-existing resources in the complex and every time I have to delete the plan and add there the already existing complex. After that I cannot modify and tune it, but at least I see how it works.
Nostrop Oil? It's a glitch that was supposedly fixed in an earlier patch but still happens.

v_make
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by v_make » Fri, 15. Jul 22, 22:37

Jimmy C wrote:
Fri, 15. Jul 22, 20:06
This might not be a bug. I think it was Cyrow that said, the Complex Planner shows the output at twice the longest production cycle in the complex plan. So, if your longest cycle is 10 hours, the plan shows 20 hours of output. This is the only way to show whole numbers on all output. Takes some getting used to and you need to manually recalculate to get hourly numbers.
Maybe? But the 2G shield production does not cost 10 hours, and without it, the hourly output is exactly correct (I don't know if it's because the longest production is exactly 1 hour).
I used the web page version of the complex planner of AP at last. Had to manually convert factories to XXL size but other than that it's good.
The in-game complex planner is just an order system for me now.
Last edited by v_make on Fri, 15. Jul 22, 22:59, edited 1 time in total.
Regards.
Mark

v_make
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by v_make » Fri, 15. Jul 22, 22:45

iXenon wrote:
Fri, 15. Jul 22, 21:13
Btw, do you have such a bug with Complex Planner? Once I deploy a complex with Build Command Software MK3 the Complex Planner starts to show some non-existing resources in the complex and every time I have to delete the plan and add there the already existing complex. After that I cannot modify and tune it, but at least I see how it works.
One major bug is that Hephaistos company is not hirable when building large complexes (mine was a 436 factory one). The order price overflowed and it paid me 4b instead when the order is issued, but never started building. I had to reload the game and use my own TL to build the complex (which is inefficient because your own TL has to actually enter a shipyard to buy factories, and you also have to set up a jump fuel supply chain to ensure the TL always has fuel otherwise it will stop jumping for the rest of the order! And my complex sits behind a Xenon Sector far from any shipyard...). Cost 10 hours in-game to build it even with jump beacons deployed at every shipyard it would buy factories from...
Regards.
Mark

Sovereign01
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by Sovereign01 » Sat, 16. Jul 22, 02:40

v_make wrote:
Fri, 15. Jul 22, 22:45
iXenon wrote:
Fri, 15. Jul 22, 21:13
Btw, do you have such a bug with Complex Planner? Once I deploy a complex with Build Command Software MK3 the Complex Planner starts to show some non-existing resources in the complex and every time I have to delete the plan and add there the already existing complex. After that I cannot modify and tune it, but at least I see how it works.
One major bug is that Hephaistos company is not hirable when building large complexes (mine was a 436 factory one). The order price overflowed and it paid me 4b instead when the order is issued, but never started building. I had to reload the game and use my own TL to build the complex (which is inefficient because your own TL has to actually enter a shipyard to buy factories, and you also have to set up a jump fuel supply chain to ensure the TL always has fuel otherwise it will stop jumping for the rest of the order! And my complex sits behind a Xenon Sector far from any shipyard...). Cost 10 hours in-game to build it even with jump beacons deployed at every shipyard it would buy factories from...
What kind of complex was it? Weirdly the game started building a huge complex in consecrated fire Beta that I'd planned but hadn't given the go-ahead for- I think it was too big for the game to handle as things went wrong like placing a terran station at the end of a ~2,000 mile tube which was attached to a pancake stack of SPPXLs which was attached to the rest of the complex another ~2,000 miles away. Took me hours to sort that out, and fix the complex hub as the software had placed it inside an asteroid mine.

v_make
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by v_make » Sat, 16. Jul 22, 06:02

Sovereign01 wrote:
Sat, 16. Jul 22, 02:40
What kind of complex was it? Weirdly the game started building a huge complex in consecrated fire Beta that I'd planned but hadn't given the go-ahead for- I think it was too big for the game to handle as things went wrong like placing a terran station at the end of a ~2,000 mile tube which was attached to a pancake stack of SPPXLs which was attached to the rest of the complex another ~2,000 miles away. Took me hours to sort that out, and fix the complex hub as the software had placed it inside an asteroid mine.
Mine is just a factory for weapon production, mainly HHT but also some common stuff like shields.
Spoiler
Show
missile x32
25 A hht
5 A fbm
1 thm

missile General x3
1 A mm
1 typhoon m
1 wraith m

missile Terran x3
1 shadow m
1 ghoul m
1 phantom m

laser x15
10 A ppc
4 T faa
1 ibl

shield x7
2g x2
1g
200m
25m
5m
1m
I read somewhere the extreme long tube is a bug of the Terran Fusion Beam factory.
Regards.
Mark

Sovereign01
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by Sovereign01 » Tue, 19. Jul 22, 04:08

v_make wrote:
Sat, 16. Jul 22, 06:02
Sovereign01 wrote:
Sat, 16. Jul 22, 02:40
What kind of complex was it? Weirdly the game started building a huge complex in consecrated fire Beta that I'd planned but hadn't given the go-ahead for- I think it was too big for the game to handle as things went wrong like placing a terran station at the end of a ~2,000 mile tube which was attached to a pancake stack of SPPXLs which was attached to the rest of the complex another ~2,000 miles away. Took me hours to sort that out, and fix the complex hub as the software had placed it inside an asteroid mine.
Mine is just a factory for weapon production, mainly HHT but also some common stuff like shields.
Spoiler
Show
missile x32
25 A hht
5 A fbm
1 thm

missile General x3
1 A mm
1 typhoon m
1 wraith m

missile Terran x3
1 shadow m
1 ghoul m
1 phantom m

laser x15
10 A ppc
4 T faa
1 ibl

shield x7
2g x2
1g
200m
25m
5m
1m
I read somewhere the extreme long tube is a bug of the Terran Fusion Beam factory.
Yes, something I only became aware of when it happened to me. Took me a long time to rearrange the factories, they were so far out I couldn't even send a ship carrying a beacon there remotely, I had to do it myself in an adv. Kestrel so that the TL could jump to the right location (first the FBC fab, then the SPPs), pick up a couple of stations at a time, then jump back. Why the game also decided to separate out the Boron SPPs is another matter, and stacking them like pancakes makes no sense either, when I moved them I laid them out in a grid which probably actually made connecting them harder due to their size. That complex had 264 stations and Hephaistos struggled with the naming, when it exhausted the Greek alphabet it tacked on "Readtext12-125" for some of the identical stations after also creating a dozen copies that dropped the "your" prefix and call all those copies "alpha". It did that with all the resource factories, I only stopped expanding the complex when I exhausted all but two of the silicon roids, the remaining ones being too small to provide enough silicon for more crystals. Which is a shame because that sector has a LOT more ore.

v_make
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by v_make » Tue, 19. Jul 22, 22:13

Sovereign01 wrote:
Tue, 19. Jul 22, 04:08
Which is a shame because that sector has a LOT more ore.
I calculate the production separately for crystals and ore. One part of the complex is crystal production, and the other part is weapon production.
The crystal production loop takes full advantage of silicon asteroids, and the weapon part takes full advantage of ore. Together these two parts will use up all asteroids in one sector.
Then I combine the two parts together, naming the complex like "[usage] -crystal44556 +ore11223", representing the crystal/ore hourly over-production/requirements.
Finally, I set up trade distribution between complexes to balance the over-production/requirements.
I choose crystal because it's the ware with maximum cargo density as an intermediate energy loop product, thus making it easier for transportation between complexes.

I also noticed the pancake layout of the SPP. 46 such SPP are stacked together in my complex and it looks like a skyscraper :lol:
Regards.
Mark

BrigandPhantos77
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Re: Reasonable way to achieve the 100b asset achievement

Post by BrigandPhantos77 » Wed, 20. Jul 22, 07:04

v_make wrote:
Tue, 19. Jul 22, 22:13

I also noticed the pancake layout of the SPP. 46 such SPP are stacked together in my complex and it looks like a skyscraper :lol:
"I'm movin on up, to the east side, to a dee-luxe apartment in the sky-high"

Sorry I couldn't help it. :lol:
Peace is a state of mind!
War is absolute!
~ Phantos ~

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