The "Second Wave" method experience. Ten years later

[iXenon]

Hi all,

Just decided to describe Xenon ships boarding with the "Second Wave" method. This method isn't new and has been known for 10 years and that is the reason it should be slightly revised. A lot of changes were made in X3 Universe and if one tried such approach as it was described it past, they probably wouldn't succeed nowadays. And the original article has a lot of details that you may not need.

Disclaimer

This may not be the best way to get Xenon ships in X3FL because there are several ways to get trained marines. You may just collect enough of them and send an additional boarding pod every deck or two and that's all. Despite they aren't 'five stars marines' their number itself matters. Actually, I never tried such approach but I see no reason that it wouldn't help. But in my case I prefer to save my elite fighters because it took me eternity to get them trained with overall skill 90 plus.

TL;DR - the method idea in one sentence

Send the marines in two waves when the first wave of low-skilled marines goes ahead and has to successfully pass at least one deck (two for "I") and die 1-2 seconds BEFORE the elite group finishes cutting the hull.

Prerequisites

• 8-10 low-skilled marines to boarding "Q" or about 15 to boarding "I"

• 21 "five stars marines" for "Q" or 26 for "I"

• 7 boarding pods for "Q" or 9 for "I"

• Any M7M except Aquilo

• Another ship that can get on board 10 (for "Q") or 15 (for "I") marines and launch boarding pods

• A jump beacon would be very useful

The low skilled marines players could get from bailed pilots, from boarded ships and so on. They have to have about 30 of 'mechanical', otherwise they might not to cut the hull. Marine Training Barracks give them enough of 'fighting' and rest of skills aren't important.

The elite marines is always a big problem. It always takes time to get them trained. If you want to save time a bit you can experiment and reach 45+ of 'mechanical' for half of the group and then focus on 'hacking'. And then on 'fighting' of course, because it has to be maximal. To be honest I didn't check the formulas, but such approach should work, because only best mechanics and then hackers in the team matter.

One boarding pod can take up to 5 marines. "Q" accommodates 20 marines while "I" does 25. During the boarding it always worth to send an additional one, so it will require 5 and 6 pods for these ships respectively. For the first wave 2 or 3 pods are needed as well.

This boarding example doesn't use rockets so M7M is needed only because it can launch 26 marines at once. It's possible to use other ships but technically it will be more that two waves and it will be a pain to synchronize them. Thus, M7M is desirable for the second wave.

Other ship is needed for the first wave. In case of boarding "Q" Acinonyx Prototype is sufficient. For "I" Kogarasu Maru may be sufficient as well but I haven't tried. I used Carrack for that because there are only two M7 that could launch the pods and Carrack is one of them and could be easily obtained.

A beacon is needed only to save time. It's possible to use a typical gates instead.

Tactics

• Prepare all your ships and place there exactly correct number of marines. Do not forget boarding pods and enough amount of energy cells

• Find and isolate the target and knock down the shields and save the game

• Summon your ship with first group (to boarding "Q" you don't need a separate ship and could use your current one) and make sure the marines are able to cut the hull and successfully clean up at least one deck (two for "I"). It's very importand and if at least one survives you have all the chances. The idea here that the deck last marines die is considered successfully completed and the next group will start from NEXT deck. Again, you send let's say 8 marines to "Q". This "Q" has 4 decks where it kills 5 marines on the first deck and rest will die on the second one. Right after that the elite group will start fighting and the fight for them will be started from deck 3, so they would need to pass through only two last decks. It's quite safe and the ship could be boarded with no losses.

• Reload the game and fly away from the target at approx 15-20 kilometers, drop your beacon (or just return to the closest gate, being followed by the target) and summon your both ships. Each ship should have exactly correct number of marines and enough boarding pods. Order them to standby and go back to your target.

• Knock down the shields that probably got raised a bit and fly around the target. You have to end at the position when the target is BETWEEN you and your support ships that should be at the distance of about 10 kilometers. Because you have ordered these ships to stop they have exactly same distance to the target. Save at this point.

• Launch the first wave from 'Piracy' menu and now the main tricky moment starts. You have to find some "anchor" in the timeline what you could use as the reference point. Most likely it will be the moment when your first pods touch the target. Because they will fly up to the target from behind they have very high chances to reach it safely. Watching the Personnel tab in 'Property Owned', make sure the "touchdown" happened at the same time for all pods and save the game.

• Wait about 20 seconds and launch the second wave. Use any stopwatch and remember the interval. Don't forget to keep target shields down. The idea that the elite group has to open the hull one or two seconds AFTER the first wave dies. If they do it before, some of them will be forced to jump out because of no free slots in the target, some will join to first wave and die. If they do it with some delay you will hear "boarding operation failed" and the process will start from scratch. Measure how far you are from that point and adjust your time interval between waves.

• If you are very close to that point then save each attempt when your elite group starts to cut the hull. The time the job takes for each operation is not constant and if you are a second too late or vice versa then try to reload the last attempt and next time it might be on time. But it's also possible to get the situation when the second group comes into play exactly when it's needed.

• At this point reload last saved game each time when one of your elite fighters dies. Remember, they are fighting only on the last two decks that helps them to survive.

My experience

Spoiler

Show

I spent a lot of time for such boarding but mainly for preparation. I didn't have low-skilled marines so had to get them first. In between, I was forced to repel a couple of intrusions into my sectors. After that realized that my new marines doesn't have enough of 'mechanical' skills and cannot cut the hull. So, have to postpone the assault and send them for training. After some time on SETA I got these 15 ex-pilots trained and repeated the attempt. Used Kogarasu Maru to knock down the shields, launched 15 marines from one ship with the "Piracy" command and after 40 seconds launched 26 elite marines from another ship. I was lucky to find the right interval very quickly, perhaps at the second or the third attempt. First time I lost 2 elite marines and reloaded the last saved game but next attempt I didn't lose any of them. The first group died of course. Some of them were able to hold out until deck 3 and then the elite group started at deck 4 and passed through this and next 5th deck without any problem.

Kogarasu Maru was the my battle ship, Carrak with 15 low-skilled marines and 3 boarding pods was used for sending the first wave and some M7M (actually, used it first time, thus didn't remember) with 26 marines and 6 pods was used for the second wave.

Next time I tried to board "Q" and prepared 5 marines. I trained some of them for 'mechanical' beforehand but that five didn't succeed, so I added 3 more but they weren't trained for that skill. In result I had problem when 2 of 3 attempts one group wasn't able to cut the hull. And at the same time I had to synchronize it with upcoming second wave. So, it took me some time to find the moment when first group is able to get in and the second comes on time. And after that 3-5 reloads were needed to get the boarding with no losses.

Acinonyx Prototype was the my battle ship and I launched first wave from it, sent there 8 marines on two pods. And the same M7M launched 21 marines on 5 pods.

Thanks for reading and happy boarding!

[Sovereign01]

Having boarded one of every type of Xenon ship in FL I can attest that it is possible to do it with a single wave if you are prepared to reload some, provided all the marines in it are at 100 in every area. This will mean them needing to earn combat experience, boarding Yaki are perfect for training marines.

The methods are similar, what makes things easier is clearing from the sector every Xenon ship bigger than an M3 (at least) before carrying out the boarding action.

The best boarding ship is the Sirokos because it can carry up to 50 marines though it only has to have the exact number of marines aboard needed for the boarding and sending them all at once, so there's no need to individually select which marines to send.

The crucial part due to how the chance of success is determined at the start instead of deck-by-deck as with TC is to save in the seconds before the marines finish cutting their way through the hull assuming no further shield suppression necessary, and immediately retreating beyond weapons range. If your ship is fast enough you can get out of range by this point. If you did clear out the other Xenon ships nearby the next part is easy since you can just SETA your way through it until either success or failure. You will still need to reload several times (hence clearing out other Xenon so you don't have to fight them each time) but it can be done in one.

Losses will be unavoidable, the bigger the ship the worse they are (at least that was my experience). The I cost me 7 marines, the K was 6, J was 5, and 4 for the Q. I was able to take the P and PX without losses.

[iXenon]

Having boarded one of every type of Xenon ship in FL I can attest that it is possible to do it with a single wave if you are prepared to reload some, provided all the marines in it are at 100 in every area. This will mean them needing to earn combat experience, boarding Yaki are perfect for training marines.
...
Losses will be unavoidable, the bigger the ship the worse they are (at least that was my experience). The I cost me 7 marines, the K was 6, J was 5, and 4 for the Q. I was able to take the P and PX without losses.

Yes, that's possible, of course. But the idea of "second wave" that you don't have to train marines you are going to lose, to 100 in every area. Only to 25-30 of 'mechanical' and the rest skills are default. Once your Barracks trained a marine just make sure that the 'mechanical' skills are good and that's all. I suspect that fully upgraded Barrack will produce enough skill level in all areas, but it takes time to get these barracks upgraded. And to lose 15 non-trained marines is better than lose 7 'five stars' marines, because the time for training is incomparable for these scenarios.

[Sovereign01]

Having boarded one of every type of Xenon ship in FL I can attest that it is possible to do it with a single wave if you are prepared to reload some, provided all the marines in it are at 100 in every area. This will mean them needing to earn combat experience, boarding Yaki are perfect for training marines.
...
Losses will be unavoidable, the bigger the ship the worse they are (at least that was my experience). The I cost me 7 marines, the K was 6, J was 5, and 4 for the Q. I was able to take the P and PX without losses.

Yes, that's possible, of course. But the idea of "second wave" that you don't have to train marines you are going to lose, to 100 in every area. Only to 25-30 of 'mechanical' and the rest skills are default. Once your Barracks trained a marine just make sure that the 'mechanical' skills are good and that's all. I suspect that fully upgraded Barrack will produce enough skill level in all areas, but it takes time to get these barracks upgraded. And to lose 15 non-trained marines is better than lose 7 'five stars' marines, because the time for training is incomparable for these scenarios.

A fully-upgraded barracks does give skill in all areas, only once a requisite upgrade is done will the marines it produces come with some skill in the relevant area, as well as being able to train them. The training times are extremely long so it's not something you can do quickly. Except for combat experience (which for newly converted marines is entirely random), that can only be earned via boarding. And if you find a decent quantity of slaves on the black market (they can be found in their hundreds and even thousands in certain stations) you have a supply of all the marines you'll ever need.

BTW, Teladi military bases are best to train marines until you get your own barracks since the Teladi rep doesn't fluctuate like the other races so they're easy to keep on side.

[BrigandPhantos77]

I suspect that fully upgraded Barrack will produce enough skill level in all areas, but it takes time to get these barracks upgraded. And to lose 15 non-trained marines is better than lose 7 'five stars' marines, because the time for training is incomparable for these scenarios.

I can confirm it. You can still get some lower skills as they are randomly generated, but as a whole you can get marines with skills that start at 80+ in all categories. Having the barracks is definitely worth it. Be ready to purchase the rifles from the black market.

[Sovereign01]

I suspect that fully upgraded Barrack will produce enough skill level in all areas, but it takes time to get these barracks upgraded. And to lose 15 non-trained marines is better than lose 7 'five stars' marines, because the time for training is incomparable for these scenarios.

I can confirm it. You can still get some lower skills as they are randomly generated, but as a whole you can get marines with skills that start at 80+ in all categories. Having the barracks is definitely worth it. Be ready to purchase the rifles from the black market.

You can also build the factory to make them, though that's probably overkill unless you plan on going through a lot of marines. You will have to get the slaves on the black market, however they do appear in great quantities. I've almost finished moving training from the military outpost in CEO's sprite to my own barracks, just two marines left training at the outpost.

[BrigandPhantos77]

I suspect that fully upgraded Barrack will produce enough skill level in all areas, but it takes time to get these barracks upgraded. And to lose 15 non-trained marines is better than lose 7 'five stars' marines, because the time for training is incomparable for these scenarios.

I can confirm it. You can still get some lower skills as they are randomly generated, but as a whole you can get marines with skills that start at 80+ in all categories. Having the barracks is definitely worth it. Be ready to purchase the rifles from the black market.

You can also build the factory to make them, though that's probably overkill unless you plan on going through a lot of marines. You will have to get the slaves on the black market, however they do appear in great quantities. I've almost finished moving training from the military outpost in CEO's sprite to my own barracks, just two marines left training at the outpost.

I have like 450 Marines, you think that's overkill? lol

[Sovereign01]

I can confirm it. You can still get some lower skills as they are randomly generated, but as a whole you can get marines with skills that start at 80+ in all categories. Having the barracks is definitely worth it. Be ready to purchase the rifles from the black market.

You can also build the factory to make them, though that's probably overkill unless you plan on going through a lot of marines. You will have to get the slaves on the black market, however they do appear in great quantities. I've almost finished moving training from the military outpost in CEO's sprite to my own barracks, just two marines left training at the outpost.

I have like 450 Marines, you think that's overkill? lol

Unless you plan on boarding Xenon ships en masse! I don't know what I would do with more than one of each, my HQ is busy reverse-engineering them right now.

[BrigandPhantos77]

Unless you plan on boarding Xenon ships en masse! I don't know what I would do with more than one of each, my HQ is busy reverse-engineering them right now.

For role play purposes I do spread them out. Keep some on my important ships/ I finally got around to boarding Split capitals. Been camping Family Whi for a while now. Got > Pteranodon, Panther and Panther Raider. Now just waiting on the Python and Raptor to show up. So far I've only encountered the Python as a RRS. I couldn't capture it. I either wiped with too few marines making it on board, or it jumped out before I could get them to it. It was trying to cross Midnight Star for some reason. In the end I just spam popped it with Hammers.

[Sovereign01]

The (overtuned) Pteranodon is very good for boarding capital ships because you control the main battery yourself which easily knocks out the shields with a few overcharged PPC volleys. Once that is done, the turret-mounted PALCs are excellent for keeping the shields down while doing very controlled damage to the hull letting the pods get the marines aboard. The overtuned part means escaping weapons range quicker until the boarding is completed, if it's a head-on engagement you fly underneath and gun it, by the time the target turns around you're already out of range.

[BrigandPhantos77]

The (overtuned) Pteranodon is very good for boarding capital ships because you control the main battery yourself which easily knocks out the shields with a few overcharged PPC volleys. Once that is done, the turret-mounted PALCs are excellent for keeping the shields down while doing very controlled damage to the hull letting the pods get the marines aboard. The overtuned part means escaping weapons range quicker until the boarding is completed, if it's a head-on engagement you fly underneath and gun it, by the time the target turns around you're already out of range.

I'd imagine installing Turbo Boost Mk2 would help in that regards as well. Hit the after burners as you are passing it. Just don't mis-calculate your distance/angle to the mark or crash/kaboom!

[Sovereign01]

The (overtuned) Pteranodon is very good for boarding capital ships because you control the main battery yourself which easily knocks out the shields with a few overcharged PPC volleys. Once that is done, the turret-mounted PALCs are excellent for keeping the shields down while doing very controlled damage to the hull letting the pods get the marines aboard. The overtuned part means escaping weapons range quicker until the boarding is completed, if it's a head-on engagement you fly underneath and gun it, by the time the target turns around you're already out of range.

I'd imagine installing Turbo Boost Mk2 would help in that regards as well. Hit the after burners as you are passing it. Just don't mis-calculate your distance/angle to the mark or crash/kaboom!

I've done that once or twice Not always easy to judge when you're at the helm of a Mile-Long Ship, in the case of the Pteranodon it's the other ship that goes boom!

[iXenon]

A short update to the original post. I was arranging my biggest complex I have created when Xenon Q appeared and almost killed one of my universe trader ships, so I decided to board it whatever it takes. But, of course, without loosing elite marines. I had enough low-skilled ones already prepared, so I was thinking it won't be a problem. I remember from the last attempt that 5 marines weren't enough, so I took 6. They were able to clean up deck 1, but it didn't help. The elite group always lose 1 marine on deck 3 and one marine on the last deck 4. Having a jump beacon is like an ace in the hole, so I quickly added two more marines, but result was the same. Despite 8 participated in the assault, the second wave of 21 marines always lose two of them. About 20 reloads didn't help, exactly same result all the time. Then I added another two low-skilled marines and they were able to pass two decks this time. They died on the 3rd one and the elite group successfully cleaned up the last 4th deck from the first attempt. The "Q" is most annoying ship to board, I'd say. Now it's clear why they have achievement for boarding "Q", not "I".

[BrigandPhantos77]

A short update to the original post. I was arranging my biggest complex I have created when Xenon Q appeared and almost killed one of my universe trader ships, so I decided to board it whatever it takes. But, of course, without loosing elite marines. I had enough low-skilled ones already prepared, so I was thinking it won't be a problem. I remember from the last attempt that 5 marines weren't enough, so I took 6. They were able to clean up deck 1, but it didn't help. The elite group always lose 1 marine on deck 3 and one marine on the last deck 4. Having a jump beacon is like an ace in the hole, so I quickly added two more marines, but result was the same. Despite 8 participated in the assault, the second wave of 21 marines always lose two of them. About 20 reloads didn't help, exactly same result all the time. Then I added another two low-skilled marines and they were able to pass two decks this time. They died on the 3rd one and the elite group successfully cleaned up the last 4th deck from the first attempt. The "Q" is most annoying ship to board, I'd say. Now it's clear why they have achievement for boarding "Q", not "I".

I think I had to accept the loss of 9 marines taking mine. Haven't done the I or K yet. I wiped numerous times on the I.

[Sovereign01]

A short update to the original post. I was arranging my biggest complex I have created when Xenon Q appeared and almost killed one of my universe trader ships, so I decided to board it whatever it takes. But, of course, without loosing elite marines. I had enough low-skilled ones already prepared, so I was thinking it won't be a problem. I remember from the last attempt that 5 marines weren't enough, so I took 6. They were able to clean up deck 1, but it didn't help. The elite group always lose 1 marine on deck 3 and one marine on the last deck 4. Having a jump beacon is like an ace in the hole, so I quickly added two more marines, but result was the same. Despite 8 participated in the assault, the second wave of 21 marines always lose two of them. About 20 reloads didn't help, exactly same result all the time. Then I added another two low-skilled marines and they were able to pass two decks this time. They died on the 3rd one and the elite group successfully cleaned up the last 4th deck from the first attempt. The "Q" is most annoying ship to board, I'd say. Now it's clear why they have achievement for boarding "Q", not "I".

I think I had to accept the loss of 9 marines taking mine. Haven't done the I or K yet. I wiped numerous times on the I.

Me too, it was my first Xenon boarding in FL- I reloaded countless times from a save seconds before the marines entered the ship but they did successfully capture the I, albeit 7 of their number didn't make it. I was just glad they succeeded, it's been my experience that the I required the most reloads, then the K, then the J, with the Q the least. I must have gotten lucky, only lost 4 marines taking the Q.

I stopped making new marines once I got to 150, I swear at least half of them are still training.