Need help with X3 AP vs FL

[HelicopterGearbox]

I own both, but just recently got into the X series.

I put a couple dozen hours into X3FL. After reading about it online, I learned that the economy in FL is considered broken, and you should play AP instead.

I fired up AP and it might seem livelier where I started, but there are some disadvantages/lack of features.

Which one is a better time sink, do you think?

[OrionTaltos]

I'm firmly happy with FL. I've put little time in X3 for Reunion, TC, AP, and FL. I have a hundred hours in AP and I'm going over 200 in FL.

I'd need to see more context on the economy being 'broken'. That's kind of brought up in all of them. There are always issues with it, but that often is opportunities. Usually it means either some product is not being bought so the station maxes out and becomes inactive (cheap source) or it is inactive because it's always missing something (high selling spot). FL comes preloaded with a lot of quality of life features you'd usually have to get mods for. There are also a few more ships and way sooner to get rolling. The in game encyclopedia, ship browser, and complex planner are so nice to have.

[HelicopterGearbox]

I'm firmly happy with FL. I've put little time in X3 for Reunion, TC, AP, and FL. I have a hundred hours in AP and I'm going over 200 in FL.

I'd need to see more context on the economy being 'broken'. That's kind of brought up in all of them. There are always issues with it, but that often is opportunities. Usually it means either some product is not being bought so the station maxes out and becomes inactive (cheap source) or it is inactive because it's always missing something (high selling spot). FL comes preloaded with a lot of quality of life features you'd usually have to get mods for. There are also a few more ships and way sooner to get rolling. The in game encyclopedia, ship browser, and complex planner are so nice to have.

It does seem like there's more ships in AP, and the stations aren't out of as many resources. Have you experienced this?

[OrionTaltos]

Most stations are maintaining some level of production. But I've found places with deficiencies that I capitalize on. A wheat complex (which have branched out to Husks for the discerning diet) at a high mark-up is paying for my other stations. I poke around where I see an absence or something I need myself. It's not even a closed system, I have to buy energy for it. I actually caused an energy deficiency in the area which I then helped solve

In AP, are you seeing a lot of resource empty stations?

[HelicopterGearbox]

In AP, are you seeing a lot of resource empty stations?

No, I'm seeing lots of resource empty stations in FL. At least in my current game.

[OrionTaltos]

That's really odd from my experience with either version. Pirate / Yaki sectors tend to be empty as its not a safe place for traders. And places like the Void are harder to get to. But most of the stations I see are regularly being supplied at some decent level. Usually halfway as when the prices reach average, traders start veering towards better value.

I'd be excited to see more empty ones so that I can capitalize

Unfortunately, I don't know why you're seeing that more in FL than AP.

[Hwitvlf]

In my opinion, FL is light years beyond other x3 installments. Massive number of quality-of-life improvements and the world is more active in general. The Complex Planner and ship browser alone are massive improvements. I don't think the economy is broken in the slightest - it's very similar to AP. Some products (maja snails etc) are glutted and others are always in demand.

AP does have a bit more story line, but no emergency jump, you always losing Universal Traders with no notice, fleets are mostly useless as they die en-mass during in-system battles, HQ building is useless (slow and no factories), Xenon are boring as they only really impact neighboring sectors.

The only significant criticism I have for FL is its excessive bail rate. Every battle leaves me with 2-10 bailed ships to clean up and it gets tedious after awhile. It ialso imbalances other income sources.

[Sovereign01]

The rep system in FL is the most maligned feature because such missions as station construction and defense missions, which were a well-paid source of credits, are no longer the sure-fire thing they once were. Because you can't please everyone, you won't always have access buy the station they want building, and defending stations will just as much piss off enemies of the faction you did the mission for as raise your rep with them. The exception to the rule being the Teladi, doing missions for them doesn't rock the boat with the other races.

[HelicopterGearbox]

Weird. I was doing the Terran Spy sandbox start. When I started a custom game in X3FL, the universe seemed much more normal. Wonder if that's what they mean by "hard" difficulty...

[Hwitvlf]

Because you can't please everyone, you won't always have access buy the station they want building, and defending stations will just as much piss off enemies of the faction you did the mission for as raise your rep with them.

The station build missions seem to have a filter preventing requests for factories from hostile factions. I think AP was the same. I have gotten requests which require me to raise rep with an already-friendly faction, but that happened in AP too. In FL, there's the possibility of stealing the blueprint from hostile factions and building them at your HQ.

For station defense missions, FL tells you who will be attacking (unlike AP) and its almost always Pirates or Yaki - the 'fodder' factions in the game. You will rarely see a mission defending against the commonwealth - such missions got them mad in AP too. What seems different in FL is that, in addition to the rep hit/boost you get from participating groups, there's also a small effect upon their allies/enemies. The simplified version is, it's very hard to stay friendly with everybody so you have to choose sides; Split/Paranid or Argon/Boron. Teladi/Goner are neutral and Terran/Pirate/Yaki are all isolationists who hate everyone.

[Sovereign01]

Because you can't please everyone, you won't always have access buy the station they want building, and defending stations will just as much piss off enemies of the faction you did the mission for as raise your rep with them.

The station build missions seem to have a filter preventing requests for factories from hostile factions. I think AP was the same. I have gotten requests which require me to raise rep with an already-friendly faction, but that happened in AP too. In FL, there's the possibility of stealing the blueprint from hostile factions and building them at your HQ.

For station defense missions, FL tells you who will be attacking (unlike AP) and its almost always Pirates or Yaki - the 'fodder' factions in the game. You will rarely see a mission defending against the commonwealth - such missions got them mad in AP too. What seems different in FL is that, in addition to the rep hit/boost you get from participating groups, there's also a small effect upon their allies/enemies. The simplified version is, it's very hard to stay friendly with everybody so you have to choose sides; Split/Paranid or Argon/Boron. Teladi/Goner are neutral and Terran/Pirate/Yaki are all isolationists who hate everyone.

Being friendly with a faction isn't the guarantee it once was, you might be able to dock at their stations but still lack the required notoriety to be able to purchase the factories themselves.

[iXenon]

The simplified version is, it's very hard to stay friendly with everybody so you have to choose sides; Split/Paranid or Argon/Boron. Teladi/Goner are neutral and Terran/Pirate/Yaki are all isolationists who hate everyone.

It's hard, but possible. You can be friend for the whole Commonwealth and all the corporations at the same time. It seems there aren't penalties at some low notoriety value, that means the notoriety is being increased for, let's say, TerraCorp, but is being kept for StrongArms at the same low value. Once notoriety is good for most of the Commonwealth participant, agents start with their job. And that's strange, but traders thereafter increase the notoriety for everyone, so it goes up over time, not down.

So, in result it's possible to have at least +5 (1000) for Corporations and at least +7 (10000) for Argon/Boron/Split/Paranid/Teladi. And it becomes a self-sustaining system at this point, so it's not needed to do some tuning there once it's done. But Terran/ATF/Pirates/Yaki/Duke/Xenon/Khaak will be enemy, of course.

[Tharrg]

I am trying TC/AP Plots for FL : v1.01 : 2023/07/04 which gives you the best of both worlds. FL improvements but with all the plots from TC and AP.

Well, I have not left the Void yet so can't say how effective it is. Some of the lore text is a bit off as things are happening in an odd order. Just use head cannon to explain.

I know if I just play vanilla FL, then I will just do the two FL plots and lose interest and go back to X4 or start an X3TC+AP game.

Edit:
It depends on whether plots are important to you, or you just want a sandbox game.

Personally, I think X3TC has the best plot (the one you don't have). However, there are mods to add the TC plots to either AP or FL.

I consider FL to be a more advanced game. The FL relationship method adds a lot of complex micromanaging; If it's your first game I would avoid it. The plot is shorter and can be skipped by gamestart choice, so if you are an experienced player who only wants a sandbox game then maybe this is best.

[BrigandPhantos77]

In my opinion on this, FL is definitely geared toward nerfing the player as much as possible. But a lot of the quality of life improvements are things that would have been nice to have in previous games. This is due to the talent of those involved in this game. I think those improvements make this game worth playing.

Pros for me:

• - Barter System
  - Improved Boarding
  - Improved assets from the start
  - Pandora - Loot system (those random containers)
  - I like the bail rate of this one. But if it's a problem for some, simply pop the pilots and the rate will slow for you. (Low honor and all).
  - I love and hate the Build Software Mk3. It works great, but we should be able to select the complex kit instead of defaulting to Teladi.
  - A lot of the quality of life improvements make this game great. Having the ability to choose between a station being alpha, beta, gamma, delta, ecco** ahem epsilon is cool.

Cons for me:

• - Some of the removed systems
  - Hitting below the belt by some spawns (They spawn at TOAs in places you can't reach quickly without a jump beacon already in place. Or in places that make no sense.)
  - Limitation of what you can build - "Rare ships" and there armaments. (Sorry, but Alderan is one system that bugged me being removed.)
  - Numerous bugs that will never be officially fixed. Though if you don't mind playing modified, Cycrow is working hard to fix them.
  - Unfinished story items left as floating debris.
  - Location of some deactivated gates; some could have been stolen by the Terrans. If the gates are merely failing, Terran's can certainly fix them as they built 2 of there there own. (Some introduced cannon don't make sense to me.)
  - Naming and IDs are very tedious. Game becomes a micro-management game quickly.
  - Spawns seem to focus on who the player has been most aggressive against.
  - Biggest con for me- Factions will attack the player for defending themselves in there space if they happen to be neutral or friendly with the attacker. Rapid response ships will seek out your assets as well if you jump out and look back to see them turn blue. I've had Ozias just sitting somewhere suddenly get attacked by Teladi Rapid Response ships.

Beside this, both games have some great aspects. Storyline is definitely better in AP. FL feels lonely at times in comparison due to that. But once you complete all story aspects in AP, it becomes the same grind and loneliness. FL truly is a build your own story game. Put a couple hundred hours into both I say, then make a decision about which you enjoyed better.

[letwolf]

Weird. I was doing the Terran Spy sandbox start. When I started a custom game in X3FL, the universe seemed much more normal. Wonder if that's what they mean by "hard" difficulty...

Hard - you begin in spacesuit , without repair laser. No hq, no ships, nothing. And in the middle of Xenon sector xD xD xD

[Tharrg]

I own both, but just recently got into the X series.

I put a couple dozen hours into X3FL. After reading about it online, I learned that the economy in FL is considered broken, and you should play AP instead.

I fired up AP and it might seem livelier where I started, but there are some disadvantages/lack of features.

Which one is a better time sink, do you think?

If it's the first time you have played an X game, I would start with X3TC or X3AP with the Terran Conflict mod if you are happy playing mods.

X3FL is more of a challenge for experienced players.