Random News not worthy of own thread

[Falcrack]

First of all, I do not - as you say - carry water for anyone! No need for you to get personal.
There is not enough information around to exclude other reasons for the crash than an assassination at the moment. Just because the Russians have a certain reknown for getting rid of political opposition doesn't automatically makes them guilty. You present judgement based on assumptions and you personal oppinion, not on actual facts.

Fine. I'll ask you a question. If you were a betting man, where would you place your bet? On an assassination, or an "accident"? What would you put the odds for either?

[Cpt.Jericho]

i'm not a betting man.

[Falcrack]

i'm not a betting man.

Fine, if you weren't a betting man but were asked which is more likely, which would you say? Assassination or accident?

[Cpt.Jericho]

I think I was clear enough before when I said there isn't enough information availible to draw any conclusion, yet.

[Falcrack]

I think I was clear enough before when I said there isn't enough information availible to draw any conclusion, yet.

Motive and opportunity, history of Putin's actions towards those who have opposed him, the fact that the plane (one with a remarkably good safety record) fell straight out of the air without a wing, over Russian controlled airspace. Yup, certainly equally probable that the man who betrayed Putin and marched on Moscow died in a plane accident two months to the day after his coup attempt or that Putin ordered him killed.

[Cpt.Jericho]

Well, seems like you made your judgement then - even before there is even officially a case.

[felter]

I think I was clear enough before when I said there isn't enough information availible to draw any conclusion, yet.

I think there is more than enough evidence to say it was not an accident, even the Russians are thinking it was a deliberate act as everything points to that as being so. What is not so clear, is just who was responsible, right now with everything that has gone on in Russia they have to be number 1 suspect, but that doesn't mean they did it, just that it was more than likely that they did it. As I also pointed out, the biggest issue is that Russia are the ones investigating the incident and even if they find indisputable evidence which no one will ever see if they do, they will not admit to it. So far, all they have really said about it was that Putin is not responsible for it, but do you really think something like that could happen in Russia without Putin knowing about or even giving his blessing for it to happen. Russia doing the investigation is like Trump investigating his current list of potential crimes, as you know he would find himself innocent no matter what the evidence points too. I will bet we will never know the truth behind the incident, that the Russians can't find any evidence to say what happened.

[Cpt.Jericho]

Can you elaborate the evidence?

So far I only know of the video showing the crash, footage of the wreckage (which hasn't been properly examined yet - but at least the recorders were salvaged), reports of witnesses and a passenger list of the flight.

I'm open for anything that clears the situation a bit more.

[Golden_Gonads]

This is another one of those cases where pretty much every new word comes as a complete surprise as you read the headline.

I know it was a serious breach of ethics and morally wrong and all that but... I am hopelessly bemused by the two words "Radioactive Chapatti's"

(I'm also bemused by a quick search revealing there are half a dozen 'correct' ways to spell chapati).

[fiksal]

Can you elaborate the evidence?

The reason is simply - why wouldn't Kremlin not do it? Easy opportunity, no downside only pluses and bonuses. A good show of force. Pro Kremlin and pro war crowd only cheered.

But we should be careful, taking about "reasons" and Kremlin in the same sentence - is often a bad idea.

The crash and all its evidence is classified and will remain so forever. Usually that's how these things are done. Kremlin itself is seeding multiple conflicting theories about what could have happened. Again, pretty standard, and another good clue. The goal to have an even spread of conspiracy theories among the population. I have seen some recent small polls that show that it's already working.

[CBJ]

(I'm also bemused by a quick search revealing there are half a dozen 'correct' ways to spell chapati).

Try searching for "poppadom"; there are loads of ways to spell that too. It's not that surprising, though, because it's the same with many words whose original spelling uses a different script. How a word like this gets transcribed into Latin script depends partly on how it sounds when particular native speakers say the original word (potentially with different regional accents, dialects or even related languages) and/or how non-native listeners hear it, bearing in mind that not all the sounds involved will necessarily be ones that have a direct analogue in English. The sound issue can result in spelling variation even for words coming from languages written in Latin script, though. It can take quite a while for these words to settle down and the spelling to standardise, and even then different English-speaking countries often end up standardising on different ones. There are still several accepted spellings for "yoghurt", for example.

[Alan Phipps]

For the UK at least, if a word version is not given in the full Chambers Dictionary then don't use it. It's my go-to reference for Scrabble submissions and crosswords, etc.

[chew-ie]

Great. Now I've the urge to get some Papadams for lunch (CBJ's poppadom in German).

[Cpt.Jericho]

Can you elaborate the evidence?

The reason is simply - why wouldn't Kremlin not do it? Easy opportunity, no downside only pluses and bonuses. A good show of force. Pro Kremlin and pro war crowd only cheered.

But we should be careful, taking about "reasons" and Kremlin in the same sentence - is often a bad idea.

The crash and all its evidence is classified and will remain so forever. Usually that's how these things are done. Kremlin itself is seeding multiple conflicting theories about what could have happened. Again, pretty standard, and another good clue. The goal to have an even spread of conspiracy theories among the population. I have seen some recent small polls that show that it's already working.

I asked for evidence, not yet another conspiracy theory backed by nothing. You may be convinced by the argument that "it had to be the Kremlin because that's what the Kremlin would do". I am not. Therefore I do not accuse anyone so far.

[Falcrack]

Can you elaborate the evidence?

The reason is simply - why wouldn't Kremlin not do it? Easy opportunity, no downside only pluses and bonuses. A good show of force. Pro Kremlin and pro war crowd only cheered.

But we should be careful, taking about "reasons" and Kremlin in the same sentence - is often a bad idea.

The crash and all its evidence is classified and will remain so forever. Usually that's how these things are done. Kremlin itself is seeding multiple conflicting theories about what could have happened. Again, pretty standard, and another good clue. The goal to have an even spread of conspiracy theories among the population. I have seen some recent small polls that show that it's already working.

I asked for evidence, not yet another conspiracy theory backed by nothing. You may be convinced by the argument that "it had to be the Kremlin because that's what the Kremlin would do". I am not. Therefore I do not accuse anyone so far.

I don't have personal evidence, seeing as how I am just an observer relying on published news sources. And Russia is certainly not allowing any outside investigators. That does not mean that a reasonable person cannot come to the conclusion that it was almost certainly Putin who ordered the assassination. This is a reasonable conclusion based on Putin's previous history of taking revenge on political opponents, the unusual circumstances of the plane falling from the sky in the middle of level flight, consistent with a bomb or missile attack, the timing (2 months after the mutiny) and the fact that most reasonable people had concluded long ago that Putin would have Prighozin killed in one way or another as payback for his mutiny. We don't have to just throw up our hands in the air and say "I guess we'll never know", when it is obvious to Russians and non-Russians that this is a calculated message by Putin as a warning to any current or future opponents that you will die in mysterious circumstances if you oppose him.

[Cpt.Jericho]

In short, you accuse Putin to have murdered Prigoshin without any evidence but hearsay, opinions and "educated" guesses.

[Falcrack]

In short, you accuse Putin to have murdered Prigoshin without any evidence but hearsay, opinions and "educated" guesses.

I believe he murdered Prighozin based on his past history of actions, his motive, and his means. Do I have personal proof that such is the case that would hold up in court? No. Do I have sufficient reason to believe that he did it enough to inform my belief that he is not to be trusted were I ever in a position to either vote for him or enter into some form of negotiations with him? Yes.

You never answered the question as to you felt it was probable that Putin ordered his assaination, you've been skirting around that for a while now. Probably because for some reason, you do not want to admit that Putin likely ordered it.

And why do you put the word "educated" in quotes? Are you quoting someone?

[Cpt.Jericho]

As I have said multiple times before: I do not have enough information on which to base my opinion, yet. You and others who referred to my posts didn't contribute to by adding information. If that's not satifying you, that's your problem.

[fiksal]

I asked for evidence, not yet another conspiracy theory backed by nothing. You may be convinced by the argument that "it had to be the Kremlin because that's what the Kremlin would do". I am not.

if you want to be picky every theory about his death is a conspiracy theory including whether or not he is even dead.

and every on of those conspiracy theories is supported by Kremlin, that part is a fact. So is that Kremlin is hiding details of the case, that is the fact too.

Therefore I do not accuse anyone so far.

Do you not?

Let me know if I am splitting hairs but it seems you already have:

Reading all those (conspiracy) theories about the death of that Wagner Chieftain I come only to one conclusion.

Was it an assasination or a simple accident - we'll never get to know the truth.
If he was assasinated, Kremlin and secret service will make sure it's all deposited in the darkest corner of the archives.
If it was just an accident, Western MSM and politicians will still call it an assasination - because, obviously, the Kremlin always lies and therefore the investigation was rigged.

Are you accusing Kremlin in lying and the assassination and the collective so-called "Western" media in the lying and fabrication of evidence? Or not yet? Or just thoughts out loud?

In the post after you've accused CIA.

Anywho, re-join us in the Russian war thread perhaps.

-----------------------


In other news - BAM!


https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/proud-b ... =102832655

A former top organizer for the Proud Boys who was convicted of seditious conspiracy and other felonies stemming from his leadership role in the Jan. 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol was sentenced on Thursday to 17 years in prison.

Joseph Biggs, a U.S. army veteran, was a leader of the group's Florida chapter and a close ally of the former Proud Boys chairman Enrique Tarrio. Biggs was convicted of seditious conspiracy in May alongside two other Proud Boys leaders following a more than four-month-long trial.

In handing down his sentence, U.S. District Judge Timothy Kelly accepted the government's recommendation to apply an enhancement that effectively labeled Biggs' crimes as acts of terrorism in seeking to influence the actions of government through threats and use of force.

Prosecutors had sought 33 years in prison for Biggs, their longest recommended prison sentence yet for any participant convicted of joining the Jan. 6 assault -- their same recommendation for Tarrio. They had previously sought 25 years in prison for Oath Keepers leader Stewart Rhodes, who was convicted for leading his far-right militia members in a separate seditious conspiracy and sentenced earlier this year to 18 years in prison.

Biggs' sentence is the second longest for any defendant charged in connection with the Capitol attack. Tarrio is set to be sentenced next Tuesday.

Prosecutors characterized Biggs as the "tip of the spear" for the mob throughout the Capitol attack in his role as co-leader of the so-called "Ministry of Self Defense," a planning team that later evolved into the Proud Boys' Jan. 6 ground operation.

"The evidence at trial demonstrated that Biggs was a vocal leader and influential proponent of the group's shift toward political violence," prosecutors said in their sentencing memo for Biggs. "More than perhaps any other, Biggs appreciated the tactical advantage that his force had that day, and he understood the significance of his actions against his own government."

They pointed to increasingly threatening and violent rhetoric espoused by Biggs in the days after the November 2020 election leading up to the Jan. 6 attack -- and noted that he had encouraged Tarrio to "get radical and get real men" only hours after former President Donald Trump first announced plans for his supporters to rally in Washington on the day of the certification.

During the assault on the Capitol, prosecutors said Biggs played a role in four separate breaches of law enforcement lines, and after entering the building made his way to the Senate chamber.

After Jan. 6, Biggs recorded a podcast-style interview where he celebrated the attack as a "warning shot to the government" that showed them "how weak they truly are."

In Thursday's hearing, Assistant U.S. Attorney Jason McCullough sought to make the case to Judge Kelly that a significant sentence was warranted for Biggs and the other Proud Boys for deterrence purposes -- setting an example to other extremists that carrying out similar attacks against the government would be punished severely.

"There is a reason why we will hold our collective breaths as we approach future elections," McCullough said during the hearing. "That's what they aimed to do. They aimed to intimidate and terrify elected officials, law enforcement and the rest of the country that they didn't agree with and make them heel to their political point of view."

[Cpt.Jericho]

I asked for evidence, not yet another conspiracy theory backed by nothing. You may be convinced by the argument that "it had to be the Kremlin because that's what the Kremlin would do". I am not.

if you want to be picky every theory about his death is a conspiracy theory including whether or not he is even dead.

and every on of those conspiracy theories is supported by Kremlin, that part is a fact. So is that Kremlin is hiding details of the case, that is the fact too.

Strange, Prigoshin was officially declared dead and was officially buried a few days ago - and you tell me they still spread this conspiracy theory?

Therefore I do not accuse anyone so far.

Do you not?

Let me know if I am splitting hairs but it seems you already have:

Reading all those (conspiracy) theories about the death of that Wagner Chieftain I come only to one conclusion.

Was it an assasination or a simple accident - we'll never get to know the truth.
If he was assasinated, Kremlin and secret service will make sure it's all deposited in the darkest corner of the archives.
If it was just an accident, Western MSM and politicians will still call it an assasination - because, obviously, the Kremlin always lies and therefore the investigation was rigged.

And here I was thinking calling Prigoshin being a chieftain would be enough for people to notice sarcasm. Well, to clarify: I was just anticipating what was likely to to happen in the quagmire of an information vacuum and it did happen. All kind of theories arose and only few of them have died so far. Also, but not only, due to the fact that Russia isn't planning on an international investigation (why anyway? A Russian got himself killed in Russia while flying in his own airplane).

Are you accusing Kremlin in lying and the assassination and the collective so-called "Western" media in the lying and fabrication of evidence? Or not yet? Or just thoughts out loud?

In the post after you've accused CIA.

No, I didn't. I only put them - and others (including Kremlin) - on the short-list of potential culprits who could have pulled it off in case Prigoshin was actually killed (which was only a theory at that moment).

Anywho, re-join us in the Russian war thread perhaps.

Um, and why exactly would I do that?
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