Star Trek Discovery

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Post by Antilogic » Tue, 6. Feb 18, 11:56

burger1 wrote:I'd rather have something you can watch with other adults without being embarrassed.
Question how boring the adults you're watching with are. ^^

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Post by burger1 » Tue, 13. Feb 18, 02:42

I guess it's done for this season.

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Post by Usenko » Tue, 13. Feb 18, 08:00

That was abrupt . . .

I liked much of it, but I felt that the end of the major arc came far too quickly.
Morkonan wrote:What really happened isn't as exciting. Putin flexed his left thigh during his morning ride on a flying bear, right after beating fifty Judo blackbelts, which he does upon rising every morning. (Not that Putin sleeps, it's just that he doesn't want to make others feel inadequate.)

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Post by euclid » Tue, 13. Feb 18, 09:01

Usenko wrote:That was abrupt . . .

I liked much of it, but I felt that the end of the major arc came far too quickly.
Indeed, for a season final a tad disappointing.

And just a side note for those comments on Altered Carbon: I find it quite surprising that people are concerned about the displayed nudity rather than the utter violence. But I suspect that we are more used to the latter.

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Post by pjknibbs » Tue, 13. Feb 18, 09:40

euclid wrote:I find it quite surprising that people are concerned about the displayed nudity rather than the utter violence.
The way TV is censored these days causes that sort of disconnect, I think--it tends to be "Show all the blood and guts you like, but if a female nipple should happen to flash for half a second onscreen, you're in trouble". Makes no sense to me either, but them's the breaks.

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Post by Ketraar » Tue, 13. Feb 18, 12:41

An underwhelming ending to a underwhelming season. The only real upside was that they finally managed to insert some Star Trek into it even if just very late and too little. Even though it made no sense at all for star fleet to agree to such a horrendous plan, but at least it allowed for a very treky speech. Not the subtlest way to convey it, but from this level of writing I was not expecting much anyway.

Also the cheapest of cliffhangers ever made, phoned in fan service. At this point they could just cancel season 2 and I would not care at all.

MFG

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Post by berth » Tue, 13. Feb 18, 23:25

^^^

Pretty much sums up my feelings. All rather lacklustre. I'll watch it if they make more but I'm not really invested in any of the characters or the world they're in.

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Post by Redvers Ganderpoke » Wed, 14. Feb 18, 12:56

Blink and you miss the climax of the season or should I say anti-climax of the season. The cliff hanger at the end wasn't really a cliff hanger. So far the characters seem a bit bland (IMO Saru is the most interesting with Michael Burnham one of the least - a lot of the bridge staff could be played by muppets as much as we now about them, Tilly is almost Wesley in annoyance.)
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Two cliff hangers - although it not a very high cliff and nobody is in danger
1. So what does Cpt Pike want?
2. Who's going to be the new Captain?
I can hardly contain my excitement : :|
A flower?

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Post by Usenko » Wed, 14. Feb 18, 13:34

I didn't hate the episode as some have. I did think that it was not the strongest episode of the season.

My thoughts were as follows:
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* The character arcs of Burnham and Tyler were brought to satisfying conclusions (or stopping points, at least, bearing in mind both are likely to feature next season).

* The character arcs of L'Rell and Saru were not so well managed. Saru was developing as a Captain, and some acknowledgement of this should have been made rather than him simply meekly yielding his position to Captain Whoever on Vulcan. Meanwhile, there was more that could have been done with L'Rell.

* I get that the scriptwriters didn't want to continue the Klingon War arc next season. Okay, I respect that. However, the war came to just too screeching a halt. I found it hard to accept that an interstellar war could be stopped so completely with a simple implied threat, especially if the problem is that the Klingons have so completely fragmented into their 24 houses.

*Here's an alternative: The house that is currently threatening Earth is somehow specifically invested in the bomb attack. So L'Rell has managed to pull them away. Seeing her strength at this, the other houses come to treat with her. She promises nothing more than an armistice to the Federation; the war has become a cold war, but at least we're not shooting at each other. This allows for a different focus next season (in that there's no official hostilities), but a level of political intrigue and possible border skirmishes. The Discovery could still find itself in danger when it accidentally warps into a previously unihabited system which has now caught a bad case of Klingons. Are the warships in system hostile, or are they part of a faction which has accepted the peace? We don't know until we have more information.
Morkonan wrote:What really happened isn't as exciting. Putin flexed his left thigh during his morning ride on a flying bear, right after beating fifty Judo blackbelts, which he does upon rising every morning. (Not that Putin sleeps, it's just that he doesn't want to make others feel inadequate.)

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Post by Ketraar » Wed, 14. Feb 18, 15:05

Thinking about it this season I realized Star Trek Discovery's plot, felt much like the X3 TC Treasure Hunt Plot, a reverse engineered goal with steps made to fit to reach the end result.

One was made by a person who didnt know jack squat about storytelling, the other by a modder. :roll:

MFG

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Post by Hank001 » Fri, 16. Feb 18, 02:00

Bravo moderator "Behold Zeus sends down a hero!" crack him down in scene 215.

No sour grapes but as a 10 year old when I sat on the carpet in front of the box when Kirk first split that mighty infinitive to boldly go, and Gray Mitchell exited stage downward under his rocky grave I was hooked. While my father on the couch scoffed.

I sat through the newest Star Trek watching post processing errors and calculating production values.

Gad I've turned into my father!

:lol: Happy Valentines Day.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery

Post by berth » Sat, 17. Oct 20, 00:19

From the Picard thread:
Gavrushka wrote:
Fri, 16. Oct 20, 08:53
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Fri, 16. Oct 20, 01:49
First episode of Discovery season 3 launched today. I liked the episode quite a bit. I don't wanna spoil so I won't go into any details but I feel like they really set the stage here for some "back to it's roots" Star Trek with the possibility of drawing direct links in the different eras of the various Star Trek series. I'm really looking forward to seeing where this goes and I'm really curious to see if the events played out in Picard lay the foundation for this future universe.
I loved the concept for Discovery, but was continually irked by dialogue between actors which was so damned obviously aimed at 'educating' the viewer, without any subtlety whatsoever.
Such as wrote:"We've a leak in the antimatter core," Burt said, clutching his friend's spanner.

"The antimatter core? That's the power source for the engines which propel us at speeds faster than light," Eric said, one eye bulging from its octagonal socket. "And will you get your grubby hands off my spanner. We're on duty!"
*EDIT* Just watched the opening episode too, and it was very enjoyable. - Michael Burnham is still a student of the Jim Carrey School of Overacting, but that's a minor blip.

Wasn't there a separate Discovery thread?
Found it! :wink:

Just watched the trailer -- looks quite bad, but I'll watch it.

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Re: Star Trek Discovery

Post by Ketraar » Sat, 17. Oct 20, 02:07

Just saw Episone 1 and holly crap its awful. Its fine for a mediocre generic scifi show, but did they forgot to add Star Trek in it? What was that?
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For a season opener it was boring as hell since nothing really happened, felt like a long trailer for a show about to start at some point. Several cheesy rip offs from other scifi stuff, like the alien bug eating a protagonist a la Man in Black and the likes. Was hoping for them to be now free from having to follow cannon but nope, they still clinging to it.
They should not have blown out the budget on those fancy CGI that serves no purpose other than to be shiny. The actor playing Micheal still has amnesia that she "is" Vulcan, some one tell her please!

In summary, writing is still as poor as before and lots of glossy CGI, oh well The Expanse season 5 is not far off.

MFG

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Re: Star Trek Discovery

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sat, 17. Oct 20, 05:03

Ketraar wrote:
Sat, 17. Oct 20, 02:07
Just saw Episone 1 and holly crap its awful. Its fine for a mediocre generic scifi show, but did they forgot to add Star Trek in it? What was that?
Spoiler
Show
For a season opener it was boring as hell since nothing really happened, felt like a long trailer for a show about to start at some point. Several cheesy rip offs from other scifi stuff, like the alien bug eating a protagonist a la Man in Black and the likes. Was hoping for them to be now free from having to follow cannon but nope, they still clinging to it.
They should not have blown out the budget on those fancy CGI that serves no purpose other than to be shiny. The actor playing Micheal still has amnesia that she "is" Vulcan, some one tell her please!

In summary, writing is still as poor as before and lots of glossy CGI, oh well The Expanse season 5 is not far off.

MFG

Ketraar
oh come on. you have to be exaggerating. Maybe your expectations are astronomically high? But the first episode did exactly what it was supposed to do, set the state for the rest of the season.

I didn't find Burnham's role annoying. I don't really understand your comment there. She was raised on Vulcan, by Spock's parents no less. And she was still with the Vulcans up until she was appointed to the Shenzhou. Why would you be surprised if the character exhibits Vulcan traits from time to time? If a child was transplanted from the US to the UK, don't you imagine he/she would adopt an English accent and use weirdo words like "pants" instead of "underwear"? It's not like Burnham doesn't know she's human otherwise she would freak out every time she bleeds and sees that her blood is red instead of green.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery

Post by Olterin » Sat, 17. Oct 20, 06:40

Watched Episode 1 now.
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No coherent federation, no warp drives, now that's an interesting setting for a federation ship and crew to be dropped into, except they aren't. Thus far it's Burnham only, and given how the name of the episode contains "part 1" I'd wager a guess that the second part will be about Discovery crossing the wormhole and arriving months later, with Burnham having had time to learn about the setting from Sahil in the meantime
I didn't have high expectations, to be fair. The episode does the job. It doesn't have glaring major plotholes, it sets the stage. I still dislike the character of "Michael Burnham" but it's not like the show can just switch the lead on a whim. It doesn't feel like Trek at all, it has far more of a Star Wars feel to it (the old classics I mean, not the new Disney stuff) - but eh, who knows, maybe that'll change a bit. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, nor a good thing, it's just "a thing".
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Re: Star Trek Discovery

Post by Ketraar » Sat, 17. Oct 20, 12:05

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sat, 17. Oct 20, 05:03
oh come on. you have to be exaggerating. Maybe your expectations are astronomically high? But the first episode did exactly what it was supposed to do, set the state for the rest of the season.
I'm not exaggerating and also have no expectations, I do however have "demands" to like a show. For example it has to have logic in it, it need to adhere to its own rules and not bounce back and forth as they run out of ideas and another rather important thing is charisma, or chemistry if you like, so that one can have connection to the characters, they are selling this as a drama scifi show but they forgot to make people care. If this is too much to ask then sure its my bad, but considering the quality of shows we had its sad that STD cant get inspiration from those, instead they keep going for the eye candy and hope that it being called Star Trek would be enough, sotty but it isnt.
I didn't find Burnham's role annoying. I don't really understand your comment there. She was raised on Vulcan, by Spock's parents no less. And she was still with the Vulcans up until she was appointed to the Shenzhou. Why would you be surprised if the character exhibits Vulcan traits from time to time?
You misunderstood or I was not clear, she has not been acting as a Vulcan since season 1 episode 2, this is what I'm saying, no traces of logic or rational behaviour, the writers wanted the marketable lineage (same stupid shit they did with Rey) but then wanted all the overacting drama and cheesy outburst that they can cram in. 5 min into the episode this was again happening and she was ALONE!!!!! talking to a robot.

Just for the sake of it I would wager a large family pizza worth that if they had this episode without Burnam at all it would have been much better, they could have had use live in this new "universe" and have follow that Book dude around showing us the inner workings it would have made so much more sense instead of having a rather contrived plot point about WALKING for a gazillion miles to a place where magically they have all the solutions for this rather very specific problem, including plot armour. At one point, not quite 20min in, they made this wide shot and I wonder how the mother of all teleportation devices did they get here?

And this is the problem, they care about looks and very little about content, imho. So yes it was not atrocious or anything, it was just bland and boring and if demanding more from a show is "having expectations" then sure maybe I'm guilty of that.

MFG

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Re: Star Trek Discovery

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sat, 17. Oct 20, 16:08

Ketraar wrote:
Sat, 17. Oct 20, 12:05
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sat, 17. Oct 20, 05:03
oh come on. you have to be exaggerating. Maybe your expectations are astronomically high? But the first episode did exactly what it was supposed to do, set the state for the rest of the season.
I'm not exaggerating and also have no expectations, I do however have "demands" to like a show. For example it has to have logic in it, it need to adhere to its own rules and not bounce back and forth as they run out of ideas and another rather important thing is charisma, or chemistry if you like, so that one can have connection to the characters, they are selling this as a drama scifi show but they forgot to make people care. If this is too much to ask then sure its my bad, but considering the quality of shows we had its sad that STD cant get inspiration from those, instead they keep going for the eye candy and hope that it being called Star Trek would be enough, sotty but it isnt.
I didn't find Burnham's role annoying. I don't really understand your comment there. She was raised on Vulcan, by Spock's parents no less. And she was still with the Vulcans up until she was appointed to the Shenzhou. Why would you be surprised if the character exhibits Vulcan traits from time to time?
You misunderstood or I was not clear, she has not been acting as a Vulcan since season 1 episode 2, this is what I'm saying, no traces of logic or rational behaviour, the writers wanted the marketable lineage (same stupid shit they did with Rey) but then wanted all the overacting drama and cheesy outburst that they can cram in. 5 min into the episode this was again happening and she was ALONE!!!!! talking to a robot.

Just for the sake of it I would wager a large family pizza worth that if they had this episode without Burnam at all it would have been much better, they could have had use live in this new "universe" and have follow that Book dude around showing us the inner workings it would have made so much more sense instead of having a rather contrived plot point about WALKING for a gazillion miles to a place where magically they have all the solutions for this rather very specific problem, including plot armour. At one point, not quite 20min in, they made this wide shot and I wonder how the mother of all teleportation devices did they get here?

And this is the problem, they care about looks and very little about content, imho. So yes it was not atrocious or anything, it was just bland and boring and if demanding more from a show is "having expectations" then sure maybe I'm guilty of that.

MFG

Ketraar
I don't see how this episode could not have centered around Burnham.
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I mean, she literally jumped through time to save all sentient life in the galaxy and found herself stranded but her mission succeeded. Now she had to figure out what's going on in this future, find her crew, and oh, there's no Federation anymore. and oh, dilithium blew up in everyone's face 110 years prior to her arrival. Those were the two big plot openings this episode revealed. If it had centered around Book w/o Burnham, sure we may have picked up on there not being a Federation. But the why, the "burn", probably wouldn't have been mentioned as that is just fact of life for the people in this time. Book even mentioned that himself, it happened long before he was born and his attitude towards it is just that of acceptance and nothing on the why or how of it. It had to be Burnham to ask those questions to set the stage for what's to come.
As far as Burnham not acting like a Vulcan, I don't mean to be snarky but I have to ask, did you see the rest of the series? Just before the end of season 2, Burnham was literally helping Spock put his mind back together, to help him return to logic. Yes, she gets emotional. She's human. She doesn't actively repress her emotions and Sarek even counseled her against doing so. But those Vulcan traits have shown throughout the series, with her budding relationship with Tyler/Voq, to her initial interactions with Tilly. If anything, her relationships with the Discovery crew have helped her to act more human. But just because she doesn't say "live long and prosper" every episode, that doesn't mean her actions don't have a Vulcan influence to them.
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Her fight with Book was her using Vulcan martial arts.
I'm just sayin =p
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Re: Star Trek Discovery

Post by Ketraar » Sun, 18. Oct 20, 12:18

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sat, 17. Oct 20, 16:08
I don't see how this episode could not have centered around Burnham.
Why not? They are basically rebooting the Series, why then not start from scratch? Establish the world in more dtail so that when they arrive we are not as lost as we are now.

But that was just a suggestion, I dont mind them centering it on Burnham, I mind they skimming over information, spending lots of time on idiotic and pointless details that add nothing to the story or characters. All the important things we got to know were TOLD to us, but these writers never grasped the notion of show dont tell, so no surprise there. In addition, and here is my main beef with it (also a long running issue in this series), characters are not consistent at all.
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How long do you recon took Burnham to walk from where she crashed to Book's ship? When we first see the smoke from the crashed ship, its flatland rather long way off. Then after she tells herself to walk (that was cringe worthy more than once) we cut to a scenery with the smoke on the left near a lake and suddenly high rise mountains, so either those teleported in or she was so far away that they were no visible. How far do you think you have to be to not see mountaintops on the horizon? After the title screen we arrive at the crash site and for some reason this dude that is hiding something only now decided to activate cloak, that the lake is now surrounded by some hills I wont even mention, I gave up on consistent landscape 5 min go.

Then this dude attacks some random person for no reason (failing too which is even more stupid), instead of warning or make a threat from a vantage point, considering the defensive stance. No the writer just wanted to force conflict for no reason, because they want to get somewhere. Did I mention the cringe line "no I will count"? That was painful...

So I'll skip a bunch of other nonsense like suddenly being friends and letting her in the ship and all that, including that she immediately understands the console without any explanation, etc etc. I'll just ask again, how long do you think it took for them to WALK to that rather huge city, in total how much time has passed now? Do you think thay had to sleep or eat? Also Burnham forgot she was injured at some point, no longer needing to tel herself to stand or walk anymore.
I could go on and on and on... But I reckon its a waist of time and I suspect so will watching the series be, I dont see them changing the writing style, but I open to be wrong.

MFG

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PS.:
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You do realise that in season 2 they didnt need to jump to the future as they had defeated the AI BEFORE jumping yes?
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Re: Star Trek Discovery

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sun, 18. Oct 20, 17:17

Ketraar wrote:
Sun, 18. Oct 20, 12:18
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sat, 17. Oct 20, 16:08
I don't see how this episode could not have centered around Burnham.
Why not? They are basically rebooting the Series, why then not start from scratch? Establish the world in more dtail so that when they arrive we are not as lost as we are now.

But that was just a suggestion, I dont mind them centering it on Burnham, I mind they skimming over information, spending lots of time on idiotic and pointless details that add nothing to the story or characters. All the important things we got to know were TOLD to us, but these writers never grasped the notion of show dont tell, so no surprise there. In addition, and here is my main beef with it (also a long running issue in this series), characters are not consistent at all.
Spoiler
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How long do you recon took Burnham to walk from where she crashed to Book's ship? When we first see the smoke from the crashed ship, its flatland rather long way off. Then after she tells herself to walk (that was cringe worthy more than once) we cut to a scenery with the smoke on the left near a lake and suddenly high rise mountains, so either those teleported in or she was so far away that they were no visible. How far do you think you have to be to not see mountaintops on the horizon? After the title screen we arrive at the crash site and for some reason this dude that is hiding something only now decided to activate cloak, that the lake is now surrounded by some hills I wont even mention, I gave up on consistent landscape 5 min go.

Then this dude attacks some random person for no reason (failing too which is even more stupid), instead of warning or make a threat from a vantage point, considering the defensive stance. No the writer just wanted to force conflict for no reason, because they want to get somewhere. Did I mention the cringe line "no I will count"? That was painful...

So I'll skip a bunch of other nonsense like suddenly being friends and letting her in the ship and all that, including that she immediately understands the console without any explanation, etc etc. I'll just ask again, how long do you think it took for them to WALK to that rather huge city, in total how much time has passed now? Do you think thay had to sleep or eat? Also Burnham forgot she was injured at some point, no longer needing to tel herself to stand or walk anymore.
I could go on and on and on... But I reckon its a waist of time and I suspect so will watching the series be, I dont see them changing the writing style, but I open to be wrong.

MFG

Ketraar
Okay, you're being waaaayyy too nitpicky. Name for me one episode of Star Trek from any series where someone went to the bathroom on any of the ships. You can find discontinuity in just about anything. How about Troi throughout the entirety of TNG sometimes being able to empathically read Ferengi despite it being canon that telepaths can't read them at all and established at their very first encounter with them. Or somehow a snowball gets thrown through the holodeck hatch by Crusher and nails Picard and somehow he catches a virus from it? I didn't think things created on the holodeck could exist outside of it, something Picard himself demonstrated to Moriarty by throwing a book through the holodeck door. Star Trek has broken its own rules countless times. Are you going to say that all of Star Trek is horrible now?
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Anywho, looks like the landscape is pretty consistent to me. The lake is clearly in some kind of a crater or depression of some type and surrounded by hills. I don't see what your beef there is.
pre intro
post intro

Who cares how long it took for them to walk to the space port? She had rations in her kit. The port itself was surrounded by mountains, who's to say it wasn't that far away? It was obvious from some of the backgrounds that they're on a moon. Do you really need every little detail explained in a single episode?
PS.:
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You do realise that in season 2 they didnt need to jump to the future as they had defeated the AI BEFORE jumping yes?
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Except that they didn't destroy the AI. Sure they won the battle but the AI still exists on the section 31 station and in what's her face's body, and who knows where else. But what they did though was to prevent control from merging with the sphere data to become sentient. And the only reason that battle was won was because of Burnham's manipulation of time to get the Ba'ul and Kelpiens to live together and the Klingons to unite and fight with the Federation. Remember also, there was little left of Star Fleet at this point in time. While Discovery was in the mirror universe, the Klingons had almost wiped out the federation. It's entirely possible that Section 31 had more ships than regular Star Fleet did at this point. Without the aliens joining the fight, it's likely both Discovery and the Enterprise would have been destroyed.

Also bear in mind, that in this new season, from Burnham's prospective this is immediately after that battle. Just food for thought on what state her body and mind could be in.

As far as this being a reboot, no body said this was a reboot of Discovery. The main cast isn't changing other than the addition of a few new people. It's a future, unknown to us, timeline, that's all.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery

Post by Ketraar » Sun, 18. Oct 20, 18:32

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sun, 18. Oct 20, 17:17
Okay, you're being waaaayyy too nitpicky. Name for me one episode of Star Trek from any series where someone went to the bathroom on any of the ships.
Dont think I'm asking too much tbh, also dont see how pointing out flaws in writing in older shows serves as argument to excuse flaws in newer ones. Flaws are flaws. What I would argue though is that TNG was a cheese feel good scifi with some good social and philosophical ideas sprinkled in, whereas STD is clearly aiming to "clone" this new vibe of dark a serious tone, so I'll be more critical of the one that is trying hard to be serious. No one went and said Bill & Ted was bad because its silly, its meant to be.

If a series is interesting and fun enough that I'm engaged, chances are I wont pick up on the nitpicks so much, but for the first 10-15 minutes I was bored out of my mind, it got better after that but the writing is still rather bad and nonsensical, its forced and things happen due to script reasons and not believable. even the last scene that was kinda interesting was so forced and unearned that it ended up just being pitifully sad.

Wrt to Season 2 ending, Georgiou said "I'm in engineering, Control is neutralised!" so there is no real need to even go to the future anymore from a plot point view. The reason they went was to soft-reboot the series that keeps struggling to engage fans (yet again show runners were fired mid season, which is hardly ever a good sine especially the second time)

Anyway, we'll see what Part 2 brings but I have absolutely no hope in this being any good (and mind I kinda liked Picard so I'm not that hard to please)

MFG

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