Biden

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Vertigo 7
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Re: Biden

Post by Vertigo 7 » Fri, 5. Feb 21, 10:35

Yesterday, Biden announced an end of all offensive support for Saudi Arabia, including arms sales, for the war in Yemen. Instead, the US will be spearheading diplomatic solutions and humanitarian aid while backing the UN's push for a cease fire. It is quite a refreshing change since the US's military involvement started under Obama and significantly escalated under Trump. And it's nice to see the state department being used for what it's meant for rather than campaigning on behalf of the incumbent president.
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Re: Biden

Post by clakclak » Thu, 25. Feb 21, 08:17

WAPO wrote:First migrant facility for children opens under Biden
Article

This is still wrong. No matter if Trump or Biden does it. Sure, it may still be morally more defendable than what the EU is doing at it's border, but that does not mean it is good by any means.
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Re: Biden

Post by BrasatoAlBarolo » Thu, 25. Feb 21, 09:02

clakclak wrote:
Thu, 25. Feb 21, 08:17
WAPO wrote:First migrant facility for children opens under Biden
Article

This is still wrong. No matter if Trump or Biden does it. Sure, it may still be morally more defendable than what the EU is doing at it's border, but that does not mean it is good by any means.
Perhaps it's just an emergency solution. A very expensive one, apparently.

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Re: Biden

Post by Vertigo 7 » Thu, 25. Feb 21, 15:10

From some little snippets I saw in the article, it sounds as if the kids are coming across without parents or someone to care for them. They've gotta go somewhere. Whether the government is running it or it's some kind of foster home, it doesn't really make a difference. They also said it's only for a month - partially for covid quarantine but also to locate the sponsors that will be caring for the kids.

Big difference between what's going on here and what Trump was doing. Trump was separating kids from their parents and essentially torturing those families for having the audacity to try to come live in the US. This circumstance is not even remotely the same thing.
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Re: Biden

Post by greypanther » Fri, 26. Feb 21, 14:27

I am curious, what people think about immigration in general, not just the USA, but everywhere.

Should people be allowed to travel to wherever they want, where they perceive a better life is available, without restriction?
Second question would be: Would that really be feasible?
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Re: Biden

Post by Vertigo 7 » Fri, 26. Feb 21, 16:10

I don't have a problem with immigration. Someone wants to come over here for a better life, presumably a part of that is having a job. And having a job also means paying taxes. It's a win/win. There also needs to be some reasonable expectations set for those seeking to come here. If we're in a situation, like the current COVID deal where millions have been displaced from work, it may be difficult to find work.

I find the general opposition to immigration, though, stems primarily from racism and/or xenophobia. The arguments against are always weak, like "dey tuk are jerbs" or calling them all criminals and so forth. Here in the US, at least, we have far more criminals that are citizens than are immigrants. And I've never met anyone who lost their job because there was an immigrant that was better qualified than they were; I've known several that lost their jobs because they sucked at it and had no work ethic.

I see a lot of immigrants just want to live free and earn there way and I just can't see any reason why we should deny them that opportunity. Most of us are here now today because our ancestors wanted that very same thing.
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Re: Biden

Post by Teladi CEO » Fri, 26. Feb 21, 16:18

Some of my best friends immigrated from Pakistan, another from China and another from the Philippines. They have some of the greatest work ethics I have ever seen, I am wholly for immigration. They genuinely came here to find a better life, and add to the US in the process.

I think the world needs to improve its immigration processing, so that no one feels the need to illegally enter the country. Make it easier so that people could enter in legally and technically “exist” within that country. I think it’s better for the inhabitants for the country who already lived there, it spreads ideas and ends stereotypes. It also is just the morally right thing to do.

I dream of a world that people could just live in peace, and that people didn’t need to flee from their countries in the first place. I think the idea of denying someone entrance to a country is absurd because of where they were born. They certainly didn’t have any choice, but they chose to leave that area because they wanted to live somewhere else.
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Re: Biden

Post by greypanther » Fri, 26. Feb 21, 21:56

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Fri, 26. Feb 21, 16:10
because they sucked at it and had no work ethic.
Couldn't agree more. I knew someone who employed Polish people way ahead of English people, because of just this. I spoke to two of them, they worked very hard, spending nothing really, but saving for a move back to Poland and their future. One was saving for a house, the other for a farm.

But, my question was more about how sustainable it all is. I seem to remember an article produced by the UN which suggested that there could be as many as 100 million immigrants inbound to Europe from Sub Saharan Africa, by 2050. That is an awful lot of people in a relatively small span of time. Wish I could find the article. Many more from Asia too, so how sustainable?

Surely a way to make things fairer, would be to spread the wealth around the world better, raise the standard of life everywhere. Personally I would love to live in Southern Africa, for various reasons, not least astronomical! Would people then be so interested in coming to a country like the UK, when there are so many more interesting places to go. :)
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Re: Biden

Post by Vertigo 7 » Fri, 26. Feb 21, 22:31

I can't speak to anything really going on in the EU but obviously the US couldn't sustain the entire population of central and south America should all of them decide to up and move to the US. When population growth exceeds a country's capability to sustain its people, then that's obviously a problem.

There's not really an easy answer to that. The leading developed nations should take an active role in helping to advance other less developed nations without cramming their religious and political ideologies down their throats. Over the long term, if every nation were self-sufficient and able to provide opportunities for their citizenry, there would be far less desire for immigration. Everyone involved would stand to gain and exploitation would be globally reduced.

The bottom line is that if countries invest in people, everyone wins. But so long as there's greed and "me first" driving the boat, we're not gonna get very far.
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Re: Biden

Post by clakclak » Fri, 26. Feb 21, 23:26

greypanther wrote:
Fri, 26. Feb 21, 14:27
I am curious, what people think about immigration in general, not just the USA, but everywhere.[...]
No borders, no nation. No human being is illegal.

I know to many refugees I call my friends to come to any other conclusion. The people I call my friends will always be closer to me and live a life closer to the one I know than Beate Heister ever will, even though both she and I are German.

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Re: Biden

Post by mrbadger » Sat, 27. Feb 21, 18:36

One thing I really don't understand about Americans is their habit of referring to themselves as 'x nation' Americans (Irish, African, whatever), rather than just Americans, and also being proud of this often far distant heritage, often resulting from people who were in desperate need of a new start, while at the same time so many are opposed to immigration now.

I'm not actually from the UK, I'm from Australia, holding duel nationality with the UK and Australia. They stopped allowing it not long after I came here, but I still only call myself English. But I could, by American logic, call myself Nordic-English, since my great grandparents, plus all my family before them came from Norway.

I have relatives, fairly distant ones who went straight from Norway to America. I don't know how they describe themselves as we're not in touch.
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Re: Biden

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sat, 27. Feb 21, 19:12

Just a guess, but it was probably intended as a demographics thing stemming from civil rights going back to where only white males could vote. Efforts to stop anyone else from doing so needed some legal terminology to differentiate other races. The other races were still American so only whites were called American and the rest were African American, Japanese American, etc.

Of course, there's a flaw in that. What if a white guy immigrates from South Africa? He's African American, right? But wait... he's white... we like those guys so, no, he's just plain ol' American.

These are relics of a dark age that still persist in modern times.
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Re: Biden

Post by Teladi CEO » Sat, 27. Feb 21, 19:47

I disagree with the notion of racial lines, while it may be a source of pride I think it divides people more. Like an African American, may be African in heritage, but they are still American, just as American as every European, Asian and Native American is.

With that in mind, I disagree with the term xxxx hero. MLK is not an African American hero, to me he is an American hero because everyone can look up to him, not just African Americans.

I think it is an ethnic nationalism, wanting to keep certain objects to ones own ethnicity or wanting to prevent certain actions.
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Re: Biden

Post by Mightysword » Sat, 27. Feb 21, 20:36

On the flip side...

Do you know it's not appropriate for the most part or at least politically incorrect to call people "Mexican" in the US ? The right words to use are either "Hispanic" or "Latino". Now, at first glance that kinda make sense right? The 2 later words are more inclusive, because not every Spanish speakers in the US are from Mexico, so calling everyone speaking Spanish Mexican is like making an identity assumption right? But that logic kinda go out of the window when you realize even Mexican themselves don't want to be called Mexican. I mentioned it a few time but I found myself on the wrong side of the word before. When I asked my classmate "are you a Mexican", they were offended and reported me to the teacher, and the teacher (who was also a Mexican) explained to me why it is wrong to do so (something along the line the stereotype Mexican = bad people). That reason it didn't escalate because they knew I was just fresh off the plane a few days ago. That was 20 years ago, and in all of my ignorant back then, I thought the idea is pretty dumb. Like ... a Mexican can talk proudly about "Mexican Food" (using the exact words), just ... don't call him a Mexican.

Now, 20 years later, while I don't claim I had become an expert of the US social and culture, but I definitely know a lot more than I was back then ... and I still think it's dumb. :D

My take is someone, somewhere, sometime ago decided this is how the words we use, and this is what we want them to imply and everyone to follow suit. Sure, you can always look back to try and find "some" kind of explanation. It's like a retrospective study, looking back it's easy to say this helps explain that, but offer very little in term of moving forward. :wink:
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Re: Biden

Post by Nanook » Sun, 28. Feb 21, 04:07

All very interesting, but what is the title of this thread? :gruebel: :P
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Re: Biden

Post by Roeleveld » Mon, 1. Mar 21, 08:25

Nanook wrote:
Sun, 28. Feb 21, 04:07
All very interesting, but what is the title of this thread? :gruebel: :P
Maybe move these to a seperate thread called "Migration" ?

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Re: Biden

Post by mrbadger » Mon, 1. Mar 21, 21:12

I don't know much about Biden. To be honest I didn't even realise he'd been Obama's VP. I read an article saying nothing would change because he was the establishment, but we've seen what a supposedly non establishment one does, and it doesn't seem to work any better.

It's a big country, lots of it is lovely and I'd really like to go see it, but I can't because there's still no functional universal health system, regardless of what they claim. to go from the Marshell plan to where they are now in less than 70 years is kind of horrible, but one day someone might be able to put the final piece in place and say they're on the right track to actually being the country they keep claiming to be.

Actually treating everyone equally, stuff like that.

I don't think it's the job of one President though, likely it'll take lots of them.
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Re: Biden

Post by BrasatoAlBarolo » Wed, 17. Mar 21, 20:42

The things you do to get more comments on your thread vs Trump's thread: am I right, Joe?

Seriously, I think if someone very good at his job (i.e. the secret service) tells you "yes, he interfered on elections. Twice.", Biden's words against Putin aren't so unexpected. It was about time someone took a stand against the russian "zar".

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