W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

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Terre
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Terre » Wed, 13. Oct 21, 18:06

Update:

Compatibility issues have been found between some Intel “Killer” networking software and Windows 11. Devices with the affected software might drop User Datagram Protocol (UDP) packets under certain conditions.
- Microsoft is working on a resolution and targeting its release in the October security update (October 12, 2021).

The L3 cache latency issue has been resolved by Microsoft and will be rolling out as a part of an update on 19th October. This will be followed by a driver that will resolve the CPPC issue.
‒ The L3 cache latency issue has been resolved by Microsoft. Microsoft plans to release the fix in their 10C Windows Update which is targeted for 19th Oct.
- The CPPC issue has been resolved. The AMD driver power profile is in the release process and targeted for GA release on 21st. Oct.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by jlehtone » Wed, 13. Oct 21, 21:25

Terre wrote:
Wed, 13. Oct 21, 18:06
... “Killer” networking ...
I have healthy mistrust for anything marketed with that term.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by exogenesis » Sun, 17. Oct 21, 00:26

Well F* U 2 MS

Can't upgrade to Win 11, according to 'PC Health Check' (Win11 upgrade checker app.),
not only due to TPM
(apparently can work around that with registry hack :
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/m ... quirement/)

but also 'CPU not supported' (also TPM related ?)

[ external image ]

Wonder how long Win10 will be 'supported'
(seems they say 14 October 2025.)

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Terre » Sun, 17. Oct 21, 07:22

exogenesis wrote:
Sun, 17. Oct 21, 00:26
Well F* U 2 MS

Can't upgrade to Win 11, according to 'PC Health Check' (Win11 upgrade checker app.),
not only due to TPM
(apparently can work around that with registry hack :
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/m ... quirement/)

but also 'CPU not supported' (also TPM related ?)

[ external image ]

Wonder how long Win10 will be 'supported'
(seems they say 14 October 2025.)
Intel Core i7-2600K was released on the 9th. January 2011 and hit end of life in September 2013.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by pjknibbs » Sun, 17. Oct 21, 08:33

Terre wrote:
Sun, 17. Oct 21, 07:22
Intel Core i7-2600K was released on the 9th. January 2011 and hit end of life in September 2013.
Yeah, this. There's a limit to how long we should expect old hardware to be supported.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Gavrushka » Sun, 17. Oct 21, 08:37

I'd hit the TPM issue when running the Win 11 health check on my I7 10700, and was about to solve it by buying a very cheap module for my MoBo until Vertigo7 pointed out it was just a case of changing a setting in my BIOS (which turned out to be in a very obscure subdirectory with an unhelpful name in the advanced section of... grr)

But the upshot was, the motherboard also had an ability to take a module to, I guess, overcome this issue with older processors lacking the functionality. - But I imagine the module won't be present on all motherboards, although it's worth a check on exogenesis's?

It's a bit irritating how computers now go out of date due to a technicality and not because they're no longer fit for their designated purpose. - I've an I7 8700, 16 GB, good graphics card and it's now gathering dust because of its lack of NVME drive which was too irksome for me to change to from my HDD. - Imagine if we felt compelled to do that with our cars or our homes...

*EDIT* I wonder if there's a TPM expansion card?
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“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by red assassin » Sun, 17. Oct 21, 09:43

Gavrushka wrote:
Sun, 17. Oct 21, 08:37
But I imagine the module won't be present on all motherboards, although it's worth a check on exogenesis's?
This isn't the missing TPM issue (on its own) - the processor is not supported regardless of TPM status.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by jlehtone » Sun, 17. Oct 21, 12:03

red assassin wrote:
Sun, 17. Oct 21, 09:43
This isn't the missing TPM issue (on its own) - the processor is not supported regardless of TPM status.
It is quite possible that the Windows 11 binaries have been compiled with options to use instruction sets / features that can be found only from the latest generations of Intel and AMD processors. The latest instruction sets use CPU more efficiently.
pjknibbs wrote:
Sun, 17. Oct 21, 08:33
Terre wrote:
Sun, 17. Oct 21, 07:22
Intel Core i7-2600K was released on the 9th. January 2011 and hit end of life in September 2013.
Yeah, this. There's a limit to how long we should expect old hardware to be supported.
Indeed. How long will Windows 11 be supported? Ten years? To 2031?
Would you expect to run a CPU bought in 2011 all the way to 2031?
If Win 11 would support it now, then it would have to support it up to 2031?
How much computer hardware do we still run that was new back in 2001?

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by exogenesis » Sun, 17. Oct 21, 13:08

Lots, quite possibly a lot more than is realised,
presumably there's some 'spread' af ages of in-use PC ages, i.e. not all '2001' vintage
(would be interesting to find out/see that info).

Well gone are the years where you wanted/needed to upgrade every couple of years,
'to keep up with performance' etc. (Moore's law ran out a long while ago).

You could be right about the instruction set specificity,
would be interesting to know what 'features' are causing the limitation, & what the gain is...
If true I'd consider that a bit a shot in MS's own foot,
i.e. to deliberately exclude a significant %age of PC's out there.

For MS to enforce an upgrade I think is a bit heavy, if not erroneous,
or part of their 'mandate' (for want a a better word).

I consider my PC to still be pretty capable, even if a decade old,
CPU gets 87% 'Excellent' in UserBenchMark,
although maybe a bit let down by 'limited' peripherals (SATA SSD, older 980 GPU).

Well at least you can get round the TPM thing (no possibility of that onn my M/B).

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Alan Phipps » Sun, 17. Oct 21, 14:02

I'm in the same boat with my i7-3820 PC system from 2012 not being suitable for Win11 for several reasons (even though it plays X4 pretty well).

As I am anyway beginning to get instabilities from my Radeon RX 480 8 GB graphics card (the card not starting about 50% of the time when the cpu/OS does - and yes I have thoroughly cleaned the card and checked the psu and the card's cables and connections), I was thinking it was time to update my system anyway. What a shame that post Covid, crypto-mining and shipping cost rises everything involved is so price-inflated.

I rather hope (perhaps pointlessly) that Win11 will not be so bloated as Win10; I have spent a lot of time after every major Win10 'feature' update disabling/removing the background running of 'must have' new features that I really didn't want to use and had no interest in. (Here be dinosaurs. :) )
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by matthewfarmery » Sun, 17. Oct 21, 17:50

Also running an old system, 4770k. So no windows 11 for me, but then again, I really hate the new UI in 11, that looks very bad. (from the videos I seen from it)

I think 11 is not going to be popular at all, both for businesses and users, especially in the current climate. I can sort of understand that MS wants new hardware for win 11, it will be the instruction sets and other hardware features that will be needed. But the big problem is, MS has basically cut out a good chunk of the market. So I doubt 11 is going to be anywhere a success that MS will have hoped for.

And lets not forget, it has made some huge mistakes in the past, and even had to U turn on many of them. I doubt I will be upgrading anytime soon. So MS can jump of a cliff for now.
=

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sun, 17. Oct 21, 19:42

matthewfarmery wrote:
Sun, 17. Oct 21, 17:50
Also running an old system, 4770k. So no windows 11 for me, but then again, I really hate the new UI in 11, that looks very bad. (from the videos I seen from it)

I think 11 is not going to be popular at all, both for businesses and users, especially in the current climate. I can sort of understand that MS wants new hardware for win 11, it will be the instruction sets and other hardware features that will be needed. But the big problem is, MS has basically cut out a good chunk of the market. So I doubt 11 is going to be anywhere a success that MS will have hoped for.

And lets not forget, it has made some huge mistakes in the past, and even had to U turn on many of them. I doubt I will be upgrading anytime soon. So MS can jump of a cliff for now.
You couldn't be more wrong. For starters, there's a ton of baked in back end features of Windows 11 that are going to be very attractive for enterprise orgs, such as the new SMB compression method, and the piloting currently underway for delivering system updates. 2ndly, enterprise orgs are not deploying ancient hardware to their end users. Most are leasing systems and replacing them every 3-4 years. Most are already running desktop systems that are perfectly capable of running 11. Even still, it'll likely be another year, at the earliest, before they start rolling it out to end users.

People whine every time MS changes the front end UI. This is nothing new. Come on dude, you predicted doom and gloom for CDPR yet they're still here - and they had a bonified set back. Why do you think MS is going to belly up because they're opting not to support some computer from the stone age?
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by BaronVerde » Sun, 17. Oct 21, 22:17

Alan Phipps wrote:
Sun, 17. Oct 21, 14:02
As I am anyway beginning to get instabilities from my Radeon RX 480 8 GB graphics card
There's always a stable, fast, fresh, modern, up-to-date family of OSes to the rescue, in various degrees of "bloatedness" from Ubuntu to home brew and in between. If you're not bound to Windows at all cost and no matter what or because the boss says so :-)

Regarding the graphics card, my newly bought siicon has gone back whence it came, because circumstances. Have ordered a new one with an RX6700XT I paid 760 EUR for. Should come somewhen around the end of the week. Looking forward to how it fares, but it is Debian I'm on, not Windows ...

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sun, 17. Oct 21, 22:26

Yep, because replacing an OS solves hardware problems :roll:
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by matthewfarmery » Mon, 18. Oct 21, 11:27

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sun, 17. Oct 21, 19:42
matthewfarmery wrote:
Sun, 17. Oct 21, 17:50
Also running an old system, 4770k. So no windows 11 for me, but then again, I really hate the new UI in 11, that looks very bad. (from the videos I seen from it)

I think 11 is not going to be popular at all, both for businesses and users, especially in the current climate. I can sort of understand that MS wants new hardware for win 11, it will be the instruction sets and other hardware features that will be needed. But the big problem is, MS has basically cut out a good chunk of the market. So I doubt 11 is going to be anywhere a success that MS will have hoped for.

And lets not forget, it has made some huge mistakes in the past, and even had to U turn on many of them. I doubt I will be upgrading anytime soon. So MS can jump of a cliff for now.
You couldn't be more wrong. For starters, there's a ton of baked in back end features of Windows 11 that are going to be very attractive for enterprise orgs, such as the new SMB compression method, and the piloting currently underway for delivering system updates. 2ndly, enterprise orgs are not deploying ancient hardware to their end users. Most are leasing systems and replacing them every 3-4 years. Most are already running desktop systems that are perfectly capable of running 11. Even still, it'll likely be another year, at the earliest, before they start rolling it out to end users.

People whine every time MS changes the front end UI. This is nothing new. Come on dude, you predicted doom and gloom for CDPR yet they're still here - and they had a bonified set back. Why do you think MS is going to belly up because they're opting not to support some computer from the stone age?
I know that MS won't go under, but I'm not that pleased about them, and I doubt every home owner that is on a limited budget will like the prospect of having to splash out on new hardware. especially in the current climate, and increased costs, it might be a bit better situation in America, but not here in the UK. And I can't afford a new system, and in 4 years time I will have too. So I don't really care much for this forced route from MS, but like I said, they made many mistakes, and had to U turn on a few of them. Alos there is a problem with supply and demand. So again the current climate isn't favourable for a mass world upgrade to get to run win 11. Maybe in the US, businesses will have systems that can run win 11 ok, but else where, I doubt that will be the case.
=

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by BaronVerde » Mon, 18. Oct 21, 13:58

matthewfarmery wrote:
Mon, 18. Oct 21, 11:27
I know that MS won't go under, but I'm not that pleased about them, and I doubt every home owner that is on a limited budget will like the prospect of having to splash out on new hardware. especially in the current climate, and increased costs, [..]
... and when it is avoidable for many if not most of them to do so.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by matthewfarmery » Mon, 18. Oct 21, 15:50

I was in hospital recently, (had a nasty insect bite) and te screens behind the doc, I'm, pretty sure the OS was still windows 7, I had a feeling it was. And the NHS (national health service) in the UK, is struggling. so I doubt they will have the money to upgrade systems to support windows 11, especially if some computers / servers are still on windows 7. So again, it might be easy to say, businesses can upgrade. But reality is, those of the small business end especially in the UK / EU with raising costs. May have to decide what to do. and again I doubt many will be happy with this change.

So very wrong of MS to think everyone will have the funds to able to afford £2000+ systems.
=

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Gavrushka » Mon, 18. Oct 21, 16:08

Just did a quick check, as I doubted the validity of needing £2,000 for a Win 11 PC, and there are plenty available sub £500. - As I understand it now, it's just 4th generation and back processors which aren't capable of running Win 11, or am (again) mistaken?
“Man, my poor head is battered,” Ed said.

“That explains its unusual shape,” Styanar said, grinning openly now. “Although it does little to illuminate just why your jowls are so flaccid or why you have quite so many chins.”

“I…” Had she just called him fat? “I am just a different species, that’s all.”

“Well nature sure does have a sense of humour then,” Styanar said. “Shall we go inside? It’d not be a good idea for me to be spotted by others.”

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Mon, 18. Oct 21, 17:06

matthewfarmery wrote:
Mon, 18. Oct 21, 11:27
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sun, 17. Oct 21, 19:42
matthewfarmery wrote:
Sun, 17. Oct 21, 17:50
Also running an old system, 4770k. So no windows 11 for me, but then again, I really hate the new UI in 11, that looks very bad. (from the videos I seen from it)

I think 11 is not going to be popular at all, both for businesses and users, especially in the current climate. I can sort of understand that MS wants new hardware for win 11, it will be the instruction sets and other hardware features that will be needed. But the big problem is, MS has basically cut out a good chunk of the market. So I doubt 11 is going to be anywhere a success that MS will have hoped for.

And lets not forget, it has made some huge mistakes in the past, and even had to U turn on many of them. I doubt I will be upgrading anytime soon. So MS can jump of a cliff for now.
You couldn't be more wrong. For starters, there's a ton of baked in back end features of Windows 11 that are going to be very attractive for enterprise orgs, such as the new SMB compression method, and the piloting currently underway for delivering system updates. 2ndly, enterprise orgs are not deploying ancient hardware to their end users. Most are leasing systems and replacing them every 3-4 years. Most are already running desktop systems that are perfectly capable of running 11. Even still, it'll likely be another year, at the earliest, before they start rolling it out to end users.

People whine every time MS changes the front end UI. This is nothing new. Come on dude, you predicted doom and gloom for CDPR yet they're still here - and they had a bonified set back. Why do you think MS is going to belly up because they're opting not to support some computer from the stone age?
I know that MS won't go under, but I'm not that pleased about them, and I doubt every home owner that is on a limited budget will like the prospect of having to splash out on new hardware. especially in the current climate, and increased costs, it might be a bit better situation in America, but not here in the UK. And I can't afford a new system, and in 4 years time I will have too. So I don't really care much for this forced route from MS, but like I said, they made many mistakes, and had to U turn on a few of them. Alos there is a problem with supply and demand. So again the current climate isn't favourable for a mass world upgrade to get to run win 11. Maybe in the US, businesses will have systems that can run win 11 ok, but else where, I doubt that will be the case.
And when those old machine die, and they're already beyond any warranty period and there's no replacement parts available? You expecting most of those refusing to upgrade to just throw their hands up and say "oh well! no computer for us!"

Hey look, I get it, there's die hard boffins out there that refuse to shell out to replace their old computers. There's people still running Windows XP to this day for that very reason. If you're one of them, thats on you for making that choice. Despite your accusation, MS isn't forcing you, or anyone else, to do jack. You can stay on your machine and keep using it, if it's still functional, beyond 10's EOL. If you wanna go to linux, again, that's up to you. The vast majority of people will upgrade to 11 with or without you being part of it, as they have always done.

I know, I know, MS is the big evil company that's responsible for all your woes. But take a step back and ask yourself - what does MS really owe you? Why are you entitled to something they're not offering?
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by matthewfarmery » Mon, 18. Oct 21, 17:26

Gavrushka wrote:
Mon, 18. Oct 21, 16:08
Just did a quick check, as I doubted the validity of needing £2,000 for a Win 11 PC, and there are plenty available sub £500. - As I understand it now, it's just 4th generation and back processors which aren't capable of running Win 11, or am (again) mistaken?
If you want a basic system with a low end card, then sure, but quarter of that cost factors in the Gcard, and many of them are pretty steep price.

@Vertigo 7

In a certain way, it is forced, ok maybe not now, but in a few years time, otherwise, support for windows 10 will drop, same with 7, no one supports 7 apart from a handful of stuff. So the upgrade was forced. otherwise, no more security patches, no games will run on 7, etc. once 10 is no longer supported, its either a forced upgrade or switch to something else.

How is that not forced?
=

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