Russia-Ukraine War

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clakclak
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by clakclak » Fri, 23. Sep 22, 07:11

Warenwolf wrote:
Thu, 22. Sep 22, 22:40
I keep noticing that the ones who complain about Western abuse of power and hypocrisy (which admittedly are plenty of historic examples) at same time totally ignore Putin's abuse of power and hypocrisy. While Putin threatens with nuclear strikes, the very same people discuss legality of freezing assets of the guy threatening with nukes...go figure...

[...]
Keep in mind that time and time again we see internal politics of western countries bleed into the discussion here, especially German politics and they can explain some of the narratives we find. Many people in Germany dislike the more established parties, especially the Greens, but there are certain groups on the political fringes that have cultivated a deep and intense open hatred for everything done by them and they will oppose anything they do no matter the issue, as they see them as the ultimate evil.

If Baerbock would say that breathing is good for you they would gladly perish just to proof her wrong. These people and the parties that they belong to now, obviously, side with Russia because the established parties side with Ukraine. Furthermore Russia an some of the more fringe parties have shared interests in creating their own reality and thus often work to achieve the same goals. Here a bit more on that.

Recently their cooperation increased further with members of Germany's AfD going on a sightseeing tour through occupied regions of Ukraine.
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by mr.WHO » Fri, 23. Sep 22, 08:35

JSDD wrote:
Fri, 23. Sep 22, 00:33
its called: "american way of life" .. dont care about my neighbour, only about those dollar bills :lol: *joking*
And that's how you get a Pearl Harbor 2.
Quality of basic education or even just common sence has dropped very rapidly in US last decades.

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by fiksal » Fri, 23. Sep 22, 18:29

JSDD wrote:
Thu, 22. Sep 22, 23:31
i dont like both policies, neither russian nor ukrainian
what makes me (no angry but) "annoyed" is the bigotry of those (writing here in this forum) who support westerners unconditionally ... no matter what
easterners vs westerners is the nationalism talking
your tribe, theirs,
your nation, etc

same questions Russians struggle with, where atrocities are only not ok when someone else is doing them. Where the idea of truth always put in context of "which people or nation it benefits". Because it's always about your tribe above all else, for fascists, nationalists. That's the main perspective.

I support easterners, Ukrainians and Russians alike. I don't support the Russian regime. I didn't support it back when it wasn't obviously fascist either.

And I am not nationalist, I don't buy into their vision of reality. What is acceptable to do. I don't cheer for them to win
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by JSDD » Fri, 23. Sep 22, 19:31

clakclak wrote:
Fri, 23. Sep 22, 07:11
If Baerbock would say that breathing is good for you they would gladly perish just to proof her wrong. These people and the parties that they belong to now, obviously, side with Russia because the established parties side with Ukraine. Furthermore Russia an some of the more fringe parties have shared interests in creating their own reality and thus often work to achieve the same goals. Here a bit more on that.
dude, i know many "russlanddeutsche", nobody thinks the way you described
the only difference(s) between a todays german and a so-called "russian-german" is/are that ...
-- those guys are stricktly parented
-- those guys are mostly devoted christians
-- those guys have suffered for generations and were excluded from society
-- many of them have lost family members in russian labour camps

hence, these people (often, not always) align with right-wing "afd" not because they are stupid, but conservative (since CDU is neither christian, nor conservative)
they want to be able to preserve their traditions of which they are proud
they cant really stand the liberals with their gay-lesbian-parades because this is not "right" in the eyes of god
they dont want their children to grow up like those [more racist terms removed - CBJ], roaming through the streets and make the hood unsafe

these are very respectable people ... you just need get known to one and convince yourself

and regarding you baerbock-"parable", this green-thinking has become nowadays mor of an ideology or a religion
any responsible person in power should do whaZ best for the (own) people, not whatZ best for the environment ...
hence, i care about being able to pay my bills and helping others around me, i've never been neither in russia, nor ukraine ...
it wouldnt affect my life if tomorrow half of ukraine population would fall over and be dead ... i'd only read about it in the newZ
(and of course, the one who'd be guilty of it would be clear beforehand: .. the putler, who else?! :roll: )

Falcrack wrote:
Fri, 23. Sep 22, 01:32
I would sacrifice all my dollar bills if it was what was required to ensure the freedom and safety of not just my children, but the children of strangers too. Because I believe everyone on this earth has an obligation to treat each other as brothers and sisters.
you sound like a soviet communist! whatZ up with you today? :gruebel: :D

mr.WHO wrote:
Fri, 23. Sep 22, 08:35
JSDD wrote:
Fri, 23. Sep 22, 00:33
its called: "american way of life" .. dont care about my neighbour, only about those dollar bills :lol: *joking*
And that's how you get a Pearl Harbor 2.
Quality of basic education or even just common sence has dropped very rapidly in US last decades.
i dont know what you are talking about / i dont get the context but .. yeah, i'm thankful to have my bachelors degree while not being bankrupt with several K dollars in debt
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by chew-ie » Fri, 23. Sep 22, 22:27

JSDD wrote:
Fri, 23. Sep 22, 19:31
hence, these people (often, not always) align with right-wing "afd" not because they are stupid, but conservative (since CDU is neither christian, nor conservative)
they want to be able to preserve their traditions of which they are proud
they cant really stand the liberals with their gay-lesbian-parades because this is not "right" in the eyes of god
they dont want their children to grow up like those [more racist terms removed - CBJ], roaming through the streets and make the hood unsafe
I call them stupid - as they vote the worst possible option which destroys the country. Afd is _NO_ alternative to CDU, no matter what. CDU is the bottom line IF you have to vote "conservative" (which I don't btw).

About the gay-lesbian-parades & muslim thing - that's just blown out of propotion and has nothing to do with reality. Typical populist mindsets which oversimplify things and spure people up with nonsense just to make them vote for them.

Hence people are stupid if they don't see through this cheap populists toolset.

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by Warenwolf » Sat, 24. Sep 22, 07:40

Meanwhile in Putin occupied territories:

In some areas armed men go from door to door together with collaborators and ask people to vote regarding annexation:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63013356

Alleged security video example:
https://twitter.com/ian_matveev/status/ ... 4420419584

I am confident that "NO" option voters will soon be in their respective local mass grave :roll: .

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by clakclak » Sat, 24. Sep 22, 10:38

JSDD wrote:
Fri, 23. Sep 22, 19:31
clakclak wrote:
Fri, 23. Sep 22, 07:11
If Baerbock would say that breathing is good for you they would gladly perish just to proof her wrong. These people and the parties that they belong to now, obviously, side with Russia because the established parties side with Ukraine. Furthermore Russia an some of the more fringe parties have shared interests in creating their own reality and thus often work to achieve the same goals. Here a bit more on that.
dude, i know many "russlanddeutsche", nobody thinks the way you described
the only difference(s) between a todays german and a so-called "russian-german" is/are that ...
-- those guys are stricktly parented
-- those guys are mostly devoted christians
-- those guys have suffered for generations and were excluded from society
-- many of them have lost family members in russian labour camps

hence, these people (often, not always) align with right-wing "afd" not because they are stupid, but conservative (since CDU is neither christian, nor conservative)
they want to be able to preserve their traditions of which they are proud
they cant really stand the liberals with their gay-lesbian-parades because this is not "right" in the eyes of god
they dont want their children to grow up like those [more racist terms removed - CBJ], roaming through the streets and make the hood unsafe

these are very respectable people ... you just need get known to one and convince yourself[...]
I know many Russian Germans. I used to live in a neighbourhood where you are greeted in Russian not German when you go to the local Netto because Russian is the diffault language of the area (followed by Arabic and Turkish and only then German). Many of the Russian Germans are very great people. Many Russians I met are also great people. Many of them are also shit-heads who reject everything that does not fit a deeply racist and facist world view in which Putin is a religious like saviour figure. My goal is not to make sweeping statements about Russian-Germans, but to explain why internal political conflicts in Germany are constantly bleeding out into the discussion regarding Ukraine. Also as someone who is not straight himself, I can tell you that there are a lot of Russian/Russian-Germans who are also part of the LGBTQI community in Germany and very much enjoy these parades. :wink:


JSDD wrote:
Fri, 23. Sep 22, 19:31
and regarding you baerbock-"parable", this green-thinking has become nowadays mor of an ideology or a religion
any responsible person in power should do whaZ best for the (own) people, not whatZ best for the environment ...[...]
I guess thanks for proving my point about, about people hating Baerbock and the Greens beyond what is healthy and projecting all their bad feelings into them.
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by fiksal » Sun, 25. Sep 22, 01:22

A short video
"Russian journalist Yevgenia Albats discusses why she fled Russia and Putin's move to call-up citizens to fight in Ukraine."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCCZ-LXA-Nw
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by JSDD » Sun, 25. Sep 22, 05:50

*** jonny, you need to stop using those bad words any longer *** ... (speaking to myself :wink: )

@fiksal
wow, i've got another one for you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gYQo6U ... nnel=MSNBC
(uploaded in march 2022)

american propaganda then, russian propaganda now
(interesting, then in 2001, i never ever heared the term "propaganda" in the news)
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by fiksal » Sun, 25. Sep 22, 06:43

Another fun news from my family

A relative of mine falls into a possible draft criteria. Didn't get in this time.

He said before the draft Russians didn't feel there was a war and now they do

On the question if he'll go, he said of course, to defend Russia and Russian people from genocide. Paraphrasing.


Best I could say to him, to go ahead. Luckily I have zero need for any direct communication with that side.

Such is life
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by UnknownObject » Sun, 25. Sep 22, 16:33

fiksal wrote:
Sun, 25. Sep 22, 06:43
On the question if he'll go, he said of course, to defend Russia and Russian people from genocide. Paraphrasing.
My good friend says the mobilization doesn't defend from genocide, the mobilization IS THE GENOCIDE.
И да, своя рубашка всегда ближе к телу.
Мир всем народам на свете.
Нам не нужна
Война!

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by fiksal » Sun, 25. Sep 22, 17:03

UnknownObject wrote:
Sun, 25. Sep 22, 16:33
fiksal wrote:
Sun, 25. Sep 22, 06:43
On the question if he'll go, he said of course, to defend Russia and Russian people from genocide. Paraphrasing.
My good friend says the mobilization doesn't defend from genocide, the mobilization IS THE GENOCIDE.
И да, своя рубашка всегда ближе к телу.
Your good friend is right.

There are some rumours that the next wave of drafts will be less restrictive and will be looking for more people. Hopefully you stay well out of trouble. And I hope you are thinking of plan B.
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by mr.WHO » Sun, 25. Sep 22, 18:00

Well, givine the amount of clusterf*** on Russia side, with partial mobilisation underway, the full mobilisation is only a matter of time.
The writing is on the wall - people who left Russia in February/March are the smart ones.

I wonder what will be the Ukraine and West counter to this? There are more and more rumors about giving the proper modern western heavy equipment - aparently even the ex-USMC Abrams are on the table.
Unfortunately with sheer human and material advantage of Russia, Ukraine window to retake the areas occupied since February will become less and less likely.
If they won't retake them before winter, then it will go into stalemate for sure.


On different note, Sweden and FInland NATO mebership require sign-off by last 3 countries:
Hungary - Recess until 26 September 2022
Slovakia - 27 September 2022
Turkey - Recess until 1 October 2022

There might be some shenanigans on the final streach before the finish line - hopefully with Russia declaring mobilisation, it might convince them to make a right choice.

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by UnknownObject » Sun, 25. Sep 22, 18:31

fiksal wrote:
Sun, 25. Sep 22, 17:03


There are some rumours that the next wave of drafts will be less restrictive and will be looking for more people. Hopefully you stay well out of trouble. And I hope you are thinking of plan B.
Thank you! I highly doubt a four-eyed flat-footed SSRI-dependent guy could be recruited, but I have a few relatives to worry about.
Мир всем народам на свете.
Нам не нужна
Война!

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by Falcrack » Sun, 25. Sep 22, 19:41

UnknownObject wrote:
Sun, 25. Sep 22, 18:31
fiksal wrote:
Sun, 25. Sep 22, 17:03


There are some rumours that the next wave of drafts will be less restrictive and will be looking for more people. Hopefully you stay well out of trouble. And I hope you are thinking of plan B.
Thank you! I highly doubt a four-eyed flat-footed SSRI-dependent guy could be recruited, but I have a few relatives to worry about.
Well, I saw one news article indicating that flat feet and scoliosis may not be enough to deter conscription.

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-mobiliza ... 46855.html

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by burger1 » Sun, 25. Sep 22, 21:20

I wonder what a country wide workers strike in protest would do?

Putin has apparently retreated back to his bunker while sending people off to fight.

https://www.businessinsider.com/photos- ... ort-2022-9

The exodus from Russia continues. Long lines at the borders, sold out flights, etc... Still think setting up a colony in Africa to house escaping Russians isn't the worst idea.

Mir banking transactions being cut by more countries possibly to help with the current large Russian immigration issue. Uzbekistan, Armenia, Vietnam and Kazakhstan. Might not be totally true for all banks.

https://www.reuters.com/business/financ ... 022-09-23/

https://kyivindependent.com/uncategoriz ... -mir-cards

China, India, Chechnya and other countries are distancing themselves from Russia. India's apparently in talks with Saudi Arabia for oil and now buys more from Saudi Arabia than Russia even with Russia's discount.

Russia keeps puling people from critical industries to fight in the war. Airlines, railway workers, etc... Might have an issue with maintaining basic stuff.

US still doing stuff with the Lend Lease Act which apparently will come into effect in just over a week? Don't understand how it's not currently in effect but people keep mentioning that it hasn't started yet?

It looks like Ukraine will be getting some better weapons.

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by Observe » Mon, 26. Sep 22, 00:04

When do we expect to see results from the Donbass annexation referendums? If Russia annexes Donbass, will this cause the war to languish into indefinite stalemate? After all, no one wants to attack Russia, even if they (other countries) don't agree with the annexation.

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by Tamina » Mon, 26. Sep 22, 00:35

I guess a lot of people are wondering about Russias long term plans behind the whole war - if there is even one.

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by Falcrack » Mon, 26. Sep 22, 03:11

Observe wrote:
Mon, 26. Sep 22, 00:04
When do we expect to see results from the Donbass annexation referendums? If Russia annexes Donbass, will this cause the war to languish into indefinite stalemate? After all, no one wants to attack Russia, even if they (other countries) don't agree with the annexation.
The anticipation of how lopsided the Russians will rig the election results in favor of annexation by Russia is almost too much to bear! They'll have to throw in some "no" votes to try and give it some semblance of plausibility, but the real question is, what is the margin of victory they plan to manufacture?

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by Sovereign01 » Mon, 26. Sep 22, 03:14

Observe wrote:
Mon, 26. Sep 22, 00:04
When do we expect to see results from the Donbass annexation referendums? If Russia annexes Donbass, will this cause the war to languish into indefinite stalemate? After all, no one wants to attack Russia, even if they (other countries) don't agree with the annexation.
Best thing Ukraine can do is completely ignore the referendums and maintain pressure on the Russian invaders.

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