Russia-Ukraine War

[felter]

So Putin met with mothers of soldiers he has sent to Ukraine, turns out they are Putin supporters, now I'm not going to condone him for doing so, as they all do this, for example Johnson did it when he met with family members of those who lost relatives during the pandemic, but anyone who falls for this type of crap and believes what he is saying are just pure dumb. Politicians do not want to meet up with people who are going to ask them the hard questions.

[mr.WHO]

There is some bizzare rumor from Newsweek, that in mid 2021 Russia was preparing to go to war with Japan over Kuril islands, but decided to go for Ukraine instead.
Looking at the performance of Black Sea fleet against non-existent Ukrainian fleet, I'm not suprised they discarted the idea of facing Japanese fleet.
That, also explain suprisingly big number of Japanese volunteers in Ukraine International Legion.

[fiksal]

There is some bizzare rumor from Newsweek, that in mid 2021 Russia was preparing to go to war with Japan over Kuril islands, but decided to go for Ukraine instead.
Looking at the performance of Black Sea fleet against non-existent Ukrainian fleet, I'm not suprised they discarted the idea of facing Japanese fleet.
That, also explain suprisingly big number of Japanese volunteers in Ukraine International Legion.

interesting, can't confirm that. Putin supporters may not be against that idea. Ukraine war was planned and hoped for, for awhile though.

Since the protests in Kyiv, and talk about EU membership.

[Warenwolf]

Call me cynic but this is one of the stories which you never can prove or disprove so, just like the NK's supposed claim to have landed man on the sun, it is perfect for getting traction without too many critical questions asked.
Newsweek has reputation of running such stories.

My first question would be - how come Russians would start a war about Kuril islands when it is Japanese who feel that it is their territory that is being infringed upon.

[EGO_Aut]

A former US Marine General is leading the british Wagner Battalion Prigozhin claimed that.
I wonder why they still lost the east side of Dniper/Kherson region.

[Vertigo 7]

Call me cynic but this is one of the stories which you never can prove or disprove so, just like the NK's supposed claim to have landed man on the sun, it is perfect for getting traction without too many critical questions asked.
Newsweek has reputation of running such stories.

My first question would be - how come Russians would start a war about Kuril islands when it is Japanese who feel that it is their territory that is being infringed upon.

this:

Let's say that by the end of the summer Ukraine has recovered most of the East and South, do you think they would try to take back Crimea?

IMO, Crimea is waaaay to easy to defend for Russia, to be worth risking attrition by Ukraine.
Hell, it will be extremely hard for Ukraine to pass Dnieper, if they retake Cherson (aparently Russia has the bridges mined already, in case they need to blow them up).

The more viable strategy for Ukraine would be to keep claim on it, but let Russia hold it as occupied territory, then roll new Marshall plan for Ukraine.
That way we would have West/Est Germany scenario, so in decade or so of Ukraine rebuilding and Russia kept under sanction, people of Crimea might want to get back on their own accord.

I think, this was Ukraine stance during last round of peace talks, that Crimea status would put on hold for 15 years.

You guys may or may not be aware, on the other side of the continent, Russia has been holding Japanese territory in the chain of islands off the mainland of Japan to the north, the Kuril Islands. Russia occupied those islands and has refused to return them to Japan since before WW2 - fun fact, WW2 is still ongoing between Japan and Russia as Japan has refused to sign a treaty until Russia returns the territory.

That island chain provides access to the Pacific for Russia's Navy and is of extreme strategic value to Russia. And there was a pretty massive oil deposit discovered there a few decades ago. Russia deported all Japanese nationals from the island chain after WW2

Since Russia started this war with Ukraine, Japan followed Europe and the US with sanctions against Russia and as a result, Russia formally withdrew from any peace talks with Japan and has since been building up its military presence in the Kuril Islands. Meanwhile, Japan has been building up its defenses to counter North Korea and China and they've been considering as well moving against the Kuril Islands to take their land back.

[JSDD]

@mr.WHO

On that note - our former chancellor Angela Merkel reflected these days that appeasement didn't work with Putin but it might with Russia "afterwards". (that's basically what drives / drove her - the longterm development between the nations)

merkel !?
she claimed in an interview that putin thinks the dissolution of sovietunion was the "worst thing in the 20st century" ...

in reality, putin said two thinks:
1. those who DONT wish back the soviet union dont have a heart .. and ..
2. those who DO wish back the soviet union dont have a brain (kind of)

.. doesnt sound as "imperialistic", so .. lets just lie about the context + omit the 2nd sentence + interpret the first sentence in our own words ^^

very clever

as "clever" as the attempt to accuse russia of genocide for a famine in ukraine, thats what the current hippi-led government of germany these days does
omitting all those facts (most people dont know) that ... (you can read them in german wikipedia)
--> in kazachstan, twice as many people died (relative to the population, but today nobody seems to care about that, at least not in the german government)
--> in russia, the famine caused almost the same number of starved people (3 million in russia, 3.5 in ukraine)
--> nobody "killed" anybody, people just starved to death because of political (lets call them) "mistakes" which led to a "peasants war"
--> "kulaks" were exterminated or deported, those remaining peasants didnt earn much for their work so at some point in time they tried to flee the fields

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLfoJTW ... WallStreet
--> hunger was always present in the soviet union of the 1930s, even in tsarist times peaants in central russia crawled over the fields to find something to eat

[Warenwolf]

[
merkel !?
she claimed in an interview that putin thinks the dissolution of sovietunion was the "worst thing in the 20st century" ...

in reality, putin said two thinks:
1. those who DONT wish back the soviet union dont have a heart .. and ..
2. those who DO wish back the soviet union dont have a brain (kind of)

I see that commentary about Merkel was more as an opportunity to strike into discussion about SSSR and Holodomor which is weird because it is not that relevant to the current war except as reinforcement element of hostilities between the two sides.

It took me 5 seconds to find that in 2005 in a address, which was about the state of the nation, to parliament and the country’s top political leader (1). Since then he has stated similar things in various form throughput the years - I linked to an example from 2021 (2).
So Merkel WAS not the initial source of the statement and the entire thing is not some sort of sinister plot to blacken Putin's good name. That part he manages on his own.

Sources:
(1) https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna7632057
(2) https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... 021-12-12/

[mr.WHO]

very clever

as "clever" as the attempt to accuse russia of genocide for a famine in ukraine, thats what the current hippi-led government of germany these days does
omitting all those facts (most people dont know) that ... (you can read them in german wikipedia)
--> in kazachstan, twice as many people died (relative to the population, but today nobody seems to care about that, at least not in the german government)
--> in russia, the famine caused almost the same number of starved people (3 million in russia, 3.5 in ukraine)
--> nobody "killed" anybody, people just starved to death because of political (lets call them) "mistakes" which led to a "peasants war"
--> "kulaks" were exterminated or deported, those remaining peasants didnt earn much for their work so at some point in time they tried to flee the fields

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLfoJTW ... WallStreet
--> hunger was always present in the soviet union of the 1930s, even in tsarist times peaants in central russia crawled over the fields to find something to eat

..and this suppose to make Russia less bad...how?
Starving tens of millions of people, your own and not your own is still starving millions of people - no matter if it was done directly or indirectly, consciously or by sheer incompetence.
This war course of actions (pillage and looting of crops and forests, bombing of power plants), suggest it's more of a continous conscious tradition.
Complete disregard not only towards Ukrainian civilians, but even towards Russian conscripts, is also in line with historical Russian behavioral patern.


This build an image of nation and goverment full of psyhopaths that need to be walled off, instead of craving the double penetration by Putin pipes.

[jlehtone]

in reality, putin said two thinks:
1. those who DONT wish back the soviet union dont have a heart .. and ..
2. those who DO wish back the soviet union dont have a brain (kind of)

When and where?

[JSDD]

coincidence? ... who knows

now that russia, saudies and others of the opec+ countries want to reduce oil production, america "comes around the corner" and eases sanctions against venezuela
and this be our motto: "drill, baby! drill" ... chevron already got permission to strengthen the allmighty petro dollar
together with that 400 billion dollar subsidy for us companies, america is good to go into 2023 ... while europe's gonna start that year with an oil import stop from russia

[mr.WHO]

together with that 400 billion dollar subsidy for us companies, america is good to go into 2023 ... while europe's gonna start that year with an oil import stop from russia

Europe is already set with Norway, Quatar and North Africa supply, that's why it's dropping Russia supply.

[Chips]

coincidence? ... who knows

now that russia, saudies and others of the opec+ countries want to reduce oil production, america "comes around the corner" and eases sanctions against venezuela
and this be our motto: "drill, baby! drill" ... chevron already got permission to strengthen the allmighty petro dollar
together with that 400 billion dollar subsidy for us companies, america is good to go into 2023 ... while europe's gonna start that year with an oil import stop from russia

Irrelevant to the topic, create a new thread for that if you're interested in it.

[felter]

I have to say these guys are the true heroes, they put their own lives at risk daily to help out others and not by killing anyone.

This one's a good one on the current state of Russia's economy I did say a while back that sanctions would not take effect till around November, looks like I called that one right,

[mr.WHO]

Looking at the conditions of mobilized troops, it might be that Russian army will be severly hit by COVID over next few months:
https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/ ... 8689020928

[Cpt.Jericho]

very clever

as "clever" as the attempt to accuse russia of genocide for a famine in ukraine, thats what the current hippi-led government of germany these days does
omitting all those facts (most people dont know) that ... (you can read them in german wikipedia)
--> in kazachstan, twice as many people died (relative to the population, but today nobody seems to care about that, at least not in the german government)
--> in russia, the famine caused almost the same number of starved people (3 million in russia, 3.5 in ukraine)
--> nobody "killed" anybody, people just starved to death because of political (lets call them) "mistakes" which led to a "peasants war"
--> "kulaks" were exterminated or deported, those remaining peasants didnt earn much for their work so at some point in time they tried to flee the fields

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLfoJTW ... WallStreet
--> hunger was always present in the soviet union of the 1930s, even in tsarist times peaants in central russia crawled over the fields to find something to eat

..and this suppose to make Russia less bad...how?
Starving tens of millions of people, your own and not your own is still starving millions of people - no matter if it was done directly or indirectly, consciously or by sheer incompetence.
This war course of actions (pillage and looting of crops and forests, bombing of power plants), suggest it's more of a continous conscious tradition.
Complete disregard not only towards Ukrainian civilians, but even towards Russian conscripts, is also in line with historical Russian behavioral patern.


This build an image of nation and goverment full of psyhopaths that need to be walled off, instead of craving the double penetration by Putin pipes.

You're omitting major parts of that part of history.

1. It wasn't the Russian gouvernment (neither current nor past) but the gouvernment of the USSR.Which means: there was no such thing as our people or not our people.
2. Stalin was Georgian not Russian.

By neglectingthose non-Ukrainian death, you also belittle the losses of people in other parts of the USSR.

But, hey, since Russia invaded there aren't any Nazis in Ukraine anymore; corruption there is non-existent; and every dime sent there is helping the troops fighting the good fight.
Oh, I almost forgot: Information coming from Ukraine is always right, never propaganda that goes unchecked into print.

P.S.: @JSDD
There are no hippies in the German gouvernment. Only post-pacifists, post-anti-nuclear powerists, post-environmentalists and pre-millionaires (and some pre-billionaries, probably).

[Chips]

very clever

as "clever" as the attempt to accuse russia of genocide for a famine in ukraine, thats what the current hippi-led government of germany these days does
omitting all those facts (most people dont know) that ... (you can read them in german wikipedia)
--> in kazachstan, twice as many people died (relative to the population, but today nobody seems to care about that, at least not in the german government)
--> in russia, the famine caused almost the same number of starved people (3 million in russia, 3.5 in ukraine)
--> nobody "killed" anybody, people just starved to death because of political (lets call them) "mistakes" which led to a "peasants war"
--> "kulaks" were exterminated or deported, those remaining peasants didnt earn much for their work so at some point in time they tried to flee the fields

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLfoJTW ... WallStreet
--> hunger was always present in the soviet union of the 1930s, even in tsarist times peaants in central russia crawled over the fields to find something to eat

..and this suppose to make Russia less bad...how?
Starving tens of millions of people, your own and not your own is still starving millions of people - no matter if it was done directly or indirectly, consciously or by sheer incompetence.
This war course of actions (pillage and looting of crops and forests, bombing of power plants), suggest it's more of a continous conscious tradition.
Complete disregard not only towards Ukrainian civilians, but even towards Russian conscripts, is also in line with historical Russian behavioral patern.


This build an image of nation and goverment full of psyhopaths that need to be walled off, instead of craving the double penetration by Putin pipes.

You're omitting major parts of that part of history.

1. It wasn't the Russian gouvernment (neither current nor past) but the gouvernment of the USSR.Which means: there was no such thing as our people or not our people.
2. Stalin was Georgian not Russian.

By neglectingthose non-Ukrainian death, you also belittle the losses of people in other parts of the USSR.

But, hey, since Russia invaded there aren't any Nazis in Ukraine anymore; corruption there is non-existent; and every dime sent there is helping the troops fighting the good fight.
Oh, I almost forgot: Information coming from Ukraine is always right, never propaganda that goes unchecked into print.

P.S.: @JSDD
There are no hippies in the German gouvernment. Only post-pacifists, post-anti-nuclear powerists, post-environmentalists and pre-millionaires (and some pre-billionaries, probably).

They also didn't mention:

The Cambodian Genocide
The Armenian Genocide
The Rwandan Genocide
The Greek Genocide
Dzungar genocide
Assyrian Genocide
Croatian Holocaust
Hutus during the first congo war
Armenian massacres
Romani Genocide
Darfur
Ikiza
Asiatic Vespers
Isaaq Genocide
Anfal Genocide
Crimean Tatars
Guatemalan genocide
Aboriginal Genocide of Queensland
Rohingya genocide
Bosnian genocide
Parsley Massacre
Haiti Massacre
Yazidis
Moriori genocide
Uyghur
Punic wars (third)

but why would they... I'd need convincing why failing to mention any of the above (or any other instance) in the same breath is remotely relevant or pertinent. In fact, please outline why its supposedly relevant to acknowledge every instance, or talk about every instance, otherwise it undermines any instance being discussed.

Oh wait, whataboutery doesn't require it does it

[Cpt.Jericho]

Well, ignore the fact that todays Russia isn't the USSR as much as you want.

[Falcrack]

Well, ignore the fact that todays Russia isn't the USSR as much as you want.

The USSR was simply Russia that was subjugating the rest of the Soviet Republics. The heart and core of the USSR was Russia.

[Cpt.Jericho]

That's fake-news.