What is your littering contributing to science and technological development, to mankind? I'd rather see a few people blow up a big rocket than 8 billion people throwing their waste on the streets.felter wrote: ↑Fri, 21. Apr 23, 02:08You know what I hate, if I was to drop a bag or a can in the streets I would be fined for littering, these guys blow up a massive rocket spreading a lot of waste and pollutants over a massive area and then just walk away from it without any kind of worry or care about any damage that they have done, and no one seems to give a damn
SpaceX Starship
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Re: SpaceX Starship
Re: SpaceX Starship
Have you actually had a look around at the litter that there is on this planet, have you not been paying attention to the waste that is dumped into our seas on a daily basis by big corporations with next to know penalty for doing so, have a walk down your street and take a look at the rubbish blowing in the wind and tell me that's okay. Musk was asked if he was going to retrieve his so-called rocket after he fired it, he just shrugged his shoulders and said "NAH we're just going to leave it" he doesn't give a damn to any damage he causes, and you think that is okay because he is contributing to science, it doesn't matter if he kills the planet while doing so. I mean seriously you can't have it both ways, without making at least some kind of effort.
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We live in a crazy world where winter heating has become a luxury item.
We live in a crazy world where winter heating has become a luxury item.
Re: SpaceX Starship
It drives me nuts when I hear dumb people asking "what about snails, what about whales", "we need to save Earth before we go to space".
This is really terrible case of short sigthness.
Salvation of Earth lies completely in space and space programs.
You complain about people littering and producing tons of trash? Space Flight and Space Colonization will require near perfect recycling and zero waste approach that will be very useful down here on Earth.
You complain about polution and toxicity? Both things are extremely dangerous in closed environments like space ships, space stations and colonies - you'll learn to find what things cause what issue, while down on Earth it would be just diluted dumping into water or air.
You complain that humanity cut down forests and make more farms? Space colonization will require hyper eficient farming in close and narrow spaces with limited resources - can be used on Earth as well.
Same with industry - space programs require extreme emphasis on light weight, light volume and super efficiency - basically build more and more useful things for less and less resource and energy. You could possibly move most of industry off-Earth in far future.
Saving Earth from climate changes? Start screwing with Mars and Venus terraforming - you can learn many things from it. Even if you fail something, you'll just end with slightly warmer/colder wasteland. If you fail on Earth it's game over.
Potential benefits outweight total mass of all rocket junk from all rocket programs past and future combined.
Saving one planet? I think we can aim higher, to have 3 habitable planets and hundred moon and space habitat colonies.
This is really terrible case of short sigthness.
Salvation of Earth lies completely in space and space programs.
You complain about people littering and producing tons of trash? Space Flight and Space Colonization will require near perfect recycling and zero waste approach that will be very useful down here on Earth.
You complain about polution and toxicity? Both things are extremely dangerous in closed environments like space ships, space stations and colonies - you'll learn to find what things cause what issue, while down on Earth it would be just diluted dumping into water or air.
You complain that humanity cut down forests and make more farms? Space colonization will require hyper eficient farming in close and narrow spaces with limited resources - can be used on Earth as well.
Same with industry - space programs require extreme emphasis on light weight, light volume and super efficiency - basically build more and more useful things for less and less resource and energy. You could possibly move most of industry off-Earth in far future.
Saving Earth from climate changes? Start screwing with Mars and Venus terraforming - you can learn many things from it. Even if you fail something, you'll just end with slightly warmer/colder wasteland. If you fail on Earth it's game over.
Potential benefits outweight total mass of all rocket junk from all rocket programs past and future combined.
Saving one planet? I think we can aim higher, to have 3 habitable planets and hundred moon and space habitat colonies.
Re: SpaceX Starship
Indeed - I'd also say earth is a lost cause. Eventually we wipe us out or the planet can't sustain our way of living anymore. A good example is the current state of the world after having a long time of peace. There is very little learning from the past - some always drag us down to previous "dark ages". Like the snail trying to climb a vertical branch.
Thus sending our best and brightest without the dead weight (nations, cultural differences, quarrel over imaginary borders, currency) is the best chance we have as a species.
(that doesn't rule out living a sustainable way of live for me - it'll still take a long time before we truly reach the stars. So those after us have to survive that long).
Thus sending our best and brightest without the dead weight (nations, cultural differences, quarrel over imaginary borders, currency) is the best chance we have as a species.
(that doesn't rule out living a sustainable way of live for me - it'll still take a long time before we truly reach the stars. So those after us have to survive that long).
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Königinnenreich von Boron: Sprich mit deinem Flossenführer
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Re: SpaceX Starship
He's not killing the planet though is he. He may be creating debris, but is it harmful debris? What, precisely, does it consist of? Arguing a case is never helped with hugely vastly overexaggerated claims.felter wrote: ↑Sat, 22. Apr 23, 01:32Have you actually had a look around at the litter that there is on this planet, have you not been paying attention to the waste that is dumped into our seas on a daily basis by big corporations with next to know penalty for doing so, have a walk down your street and take a look at the rubbish blowing in the wind and tell me that's okay. Musk was asked if he was going to retrieve his so-called rocket after he fired it, he just shrugged his shoulders and said "NAH we're just going to leave it" he doesn't give a damn to any damage he causes, and you think that is okay because he is contributing to science, it doesn't matter if he kills the planet while doing so. I mean seriously you can't have it both ways, without making at least some kind of effort.
I mean ships sink in the oceans all the time, but apart from fuel leaks and recovery of the fuel to prevent environmental disasters, they're not considered to be damaging to the extent of "must recover everything". Indeed, they sink old ships on purpose to create artificial reefs to help with aquatic environments/life.
Similarly there's likely more "litter" created in a single day from Walkers crisp packets than Elon Musk's exploded rocket; but it does depend upon the materials. While I understand the issue, and sets a bad precedent of "he can, so we can", at the same time - there are significant differences. But it should be challenged at least.
Elon Musk's space attempts aren't going, by themselves, to destroy the planet though. A vastly greater impact is concentrating more on other factors, than him burning yet more oil materials in trying to recover debris from the ocean floor without understanding what actual impact it may or may not have (again, depends on materials). Improving recycling, changing the worldwide habits and reliance on single use products and plastics and so on. Correctly disposing off our individual litter that is very harmful to the environment.