150 hours, FUBAR Noteriety System, Goodbye, Good Luck

[Cycrow]

5MJ and 25MJ shields can be bought at Teladi, always neutral buddy and do not require a high rep to get. 200MJ can't be bought by any mean by the "Other side" meaning you have to steal or you are screwed.

while the 5 is available from Teladi, the 25 is not, its only available from Split and Paranid

And i'm happy to hear all ships are possible to see cause there are a few thread asking about the Griffon and a few other ships that can't be seen outside of missions or not at all. (I named the Griffon but could also name the Advanced Chokaro)
Once again playing the split/Paranid side i could see how easy it is to get any ship. Hyperions are all over the place Aggamenon are used more than the Deimos, the new OP enhanced heavy dragon are staked in StrongArms sectors and all their ships are equaly easy to get. On the other hand, i'm looking for the Aamon for days and not a single one. Yes i have it in my encyclopedia, but only cause i sent an agent to unlock it at Omicron only to see "Hey sorry dude but you need as much rep to get this M3 than you need for an M7 goodbye".

well i just checked the ships avaialble in a new game, there was 1 Griffon, 5 Griffon Raiders and 3 Advanced Chakaro (the later is not available from Argon either)
There was also 23 Aamon Prototypes available (however a number of them are just called Freight Transporters)
The Hyperion is also the only ship that will always be fully stocked with marines and boarding defences, so its generally more difficult to get
Pirates can also have any races M6 or M7, so you could also try them

The drone carriers are the ones that only have small numbers available, but thats the same for all races

[Midnightknight]

well i just checked the ships avaialble in a new game, there was 1 Griffon, 5 Griffon Raiders and 3 Advanced Chakaro (the later is not available from Argon either)
There was also 23 Aamon Prototypes available (however a number of them are just called Freight Transporters)
The Hyperion is also the only ship that will always be fully stocked with marines and boarding defences, so its generally more difficult to get
Pirates can also have any races M6 or M7, so you could also try them

The drone carriers are the ones that only have small numbers available, but thats the same for all races

And yes sorry for the 25mj i mistkan with the 1mj.
The Aamon seriously? Lol at least that's one mystery solved.

Well then where are those ships? I mean i can miss the Griffon (Not the raider i was asking for the Griffon) cause Argon space is large and if there is only one, ok. But the Advanced Chokaro? Yaki space is really small and i spent hours in their 3 sectors blowing up everything and looking for every TM to get this one. I captured 4 Chokaros, various other TM from random races that spawn as scavengers but not a single advanced one. If there was 3 Adv Chokaro in my game i really think i would have seen them.

For pirates yeah i saw the M6 too, but M7 are almost always Caracks in my game too (and i say almost cause i'm not 100% sure, but i'm pretty confident they spawned only carracks), i never see them with something else, while i have already seen them in Acynonyx and Argons M6. That might also be why people feel really different about this, games looks so different, at least yours and mine. Or you changed it in 1.2? Cause i'm still on 1.1, can't play with the built in equipment missing issue.

[Deianeira]

This should answer all your questions: https://roguey.co.uk/x3tc/help/tanmoy/a ... ng-eye.php

[Midnightknight]

This should answer all your questions: https://roguey.co.uk/x3tc/help/tanmoy/a ... ng-eye.php

Thanks, just checked a few ships.

Adv Chokaro, Siroko, Griffon, Tyr, Karuido, Senshi none are in my game.
Just like many other people telling those ships are hard or impossible to get. If they are destroyed then they respawn really slowly if they respawns at all. Will check from time to time now with the script but i'm often in Yaki space and it's easy to see you never have most of their ships around.

The good news there are some M3 i was looking for spawned as pirates, Aamons and Adanced Eclipse i was looking for. Fun fact, Adv Eclipse are Atreus ships but none are used by atreus or borons or argons.

[Hwitvlf]

I've done some modding stuff and saw similar reactions to new content and was surprised, so I'm more wondering what people 'feel' is wrong than in drawing charts to prove what is wrong. From a designer's viewpoint, you can't really argue with people's gut-reaction; it is what it is.

My best guess is that new system is a bit confusing and different from our beloved TC/AP - maybe causing some backlash. I think the pop-up showing faction relationship changes probably isn't helpful. I took a Xenon patrol mission in a Pirate sector and got "OTAS>>>"; it makes things feel more complicated than they are. If there was a simple friend/foe list in the encyclopedia faction entries, it would probably be easier for people to grasp.

I chose the splits cause i like their ships, they are usually really fast and punchy just like i like to play

I like Split ships too...and I'm too cheap to buy them...which is why the Split don't like me too much

[Midnightknight]

I've done some modding stuff and saw similar reactions to new content and was surprised, so I'm more wondering in what people 'feel' is wrong than in drawing charts to prove what is wrong. From a designer's viewpoint, you can't really argue with people's gut-reaction; it is what it is.

My best guess is that new system is a bit confusing and different from our beloved TC/AP - maybe causing some backlash. I think the pop-ups showing faction relationship changes probably isn't helpful. I took a Xenon patrol mission in a Pirate sector and got "OTAS>>>"; it makes things feel more complicated than they are. If there was a simple friend/foe list in the encyclopedia faction entries, it would probably be easier for people to grasp.

I chose the splits cause i like their ships, they are usually really fast and punchy just like i like to play

I like Split ships too...and I'm too cheap to buy them...which is why the Split don't like me too much

Yeah and i think you played it better than i do. I tried to get allied to the one i'm using most ships to buy them and befriend. In the end, Hyperion can't be bought from Paranid so you have to board your friends ... And it's harder to get those ships i want (rep+cost) than board them ... >.<

I do agree too that the system is poorly explained, but i must admit, even with the table of the relations, it's seriously way too complicated, and have way too many intricate issues. Makes me remember Pokemon's table of types in gen 1, lot of types but making sense. Then they added new types that were awkward but it was still understandable, and in the end simple, if your type was weak against someone, the someone was strong against you. Easy. Here this is such a mess, special mention for the Goner that are enemies of people that aren't their enemies. Sometimes it's symmetric, sometimes not ... The lock isn't explained either, i just tested with OTAS, when you are locked (at 98%) sending an agent tells you will have progress on that rep, but in the end, nothing and you lost the influence.
I also still do not understand why my agents give so little rep for some factions and a ton for others. And once again i'm not locked cause they actually gives some rep, it's just painfully slow, like 20% for 1000 influence with Teladis.

[Argonaught.]

Any side can get access to all the stations, you just have to steal the blueprints and build them at your HQ.
The Argon side is also missing some stations to buy that are on the Spilt/Paranid side. The 5 and 25mj shield factories cant be bought from Argon/Boron, and the Beam weapon factories are only available to Split
You can use your agents and HQ to plug any holes

Other than the plot, i cant think of any unique ships that you cant acquire on either side. Everything thats buyable at shipyards can be found in the universe (either flying around or from missions), or blueprints from the Explorers Guild/Missions

How are agents got again...oh yes...limited missions that immediately lower half the universe to enemy...not ideal at all. make it way less.....akin to the grind to raise your rank.
Also, the killing of xenon pirate or khaak in any system should not count as a rep change for enemies of the folks that own that system you do it in, whether you gain in rank with the system owner or not.

I am trying real hard to play this game unmodified but you guys really haven't a breeze whats fair and what isn't.

Argo.

[Ramdat]

If there was a simple friend/foe list in the encyclopedia faction entries, it would probably be easier for people to grasp.

There is a simple friend/foe list in the encyclopedia faction entry.

How are agents got again...oh yes...limited missions that immediately lower half the universe to enemy...not ideal at all.

The missions are not limited. The chance to be offered an agent scales to how many you currently own. It is ideal to spend them as soon as possible so that you can easily acquire more.

If you want to be very careful, you can only accept missions from Teladi until you use the agents earned from this to stablize relationships with other factions. However, it is mostly unnecessary as the relationship improvement gained from agent actions is enormous.

[Argonaught.]

How are agents got again...oh yes...limited missions that immediately lower half the universe to enemy...not ideal at all.

The missions are not limited. The chance to be offered an agent scales to how many you currently own. It is ideal to spend them as soon as possible so that you can easily acquire more. If you want to be very careful, you can only accept missions from Teladi until you use the agents earned from this to stablize relationships with other factions. However, it is mostly unnecessary as the relationship improvement gained from agent actions is enormous.

They are limited as one agent will not raise that half of the universe back to where your ranks were in the first place.
The more missions you run the more agents you need...and each agent you get from doing a mission lowers everything beyond what is acceptable.
The limitation also comes from who offers the mission as you can get mission from any race all over the place...if it's the wrong race you don't want then you can't take the mission for the agent offered.....limited.

Argo.

[Ramdat]

They are limited as one agent will not raise that half of the universe back to where your ranks were in the first place.
The more missions you run the more agents you need...and each agent you get from doing a mission lowers everything beyond what is acceptable.

It will vary depending on how many tasks each agent can use, but generally an agent is more valuable than the reputation hit from earning it.

Most of the problems with the reputation system occur when the player is at a low relationship level with a faction, since at this point it is easier for a mission to turn a relationship hostile. The amount of influence an agent must spend to raise a relationship at this level is small, so it is easy to raise it, even to a higher place than it was before the mission. One agent certainly can't fix everything, but the overall relationship ranks trend upwards as you earn more agents. The player can maintain a relationship of 6-7 rank with most factions, and max with a couple. It is fairly tedious to maintain, but not difficult.

The limitation also comes from who offers the mission as you can get mission from any race all over the place...if it's the wrong race you don't want then you can't take the mission for the agent offered.....limited.

In this case you just drive to the next sector and accept another mission. Inconvenient, but not limited in the way you are suggesting.

[atroces]

How are agents got again...oh yes...limited missions that immediately lower half the universe to enemy...not ideal at all.

The missions are not limited. The chance to be offered an agent scales to how many you currently own. It is ideal to spend them as soon as possible so that you can easily acquire more. If you want to be very careful, you can only accept missions from Teladi until you use the agents earned from this to stablize relationships with other factions. However, it is mostly unnecessary as the relationship improvement gained from agent actions is enormous.

They are limited as one agent will not raise that half of the universe back to where your ranks were in the first place.
The more missions you run the more agents you need...and each agent you get from doing a mission lowers everything beyond what is acceptable.
The limitation also comes from who offers the mission as you can get mission from any race all over the place...if it's the wrong race you don't want then you can't take the mission for the agent offered.....limited.

Argo.

Teladi Agents.

[Argent Valcendre]

My experience with the reputation system is that there are massive swings in the very beginning of a game.

While doing missions for the factions, the reputation rapidly kind of freezes and I have stable good and bad relations with the different factions. Major factions tend to get all friendly and minor factions unfriendly. No direct contact is needed to get the bad relations with the minor factions, it‘is just happening as you do missions for all the major factions.

I‘m playing version 1.1. It just makes no sense to start the game with huge reputation swings after doing just one single mission. Then the game changes into long term frozen relations, just after doing a few dozens of missions.

The game ends up in a state where I barely notice any reputation changes even after dozens of missions.

I don‘t understand whats going on with the reputation, but frozen relations are very bad. Either the relations could be dynamic or could be more predictable - I‘m fine with both approaches - but the freeze I experience in my games is very annoying to say at the least.

[fireanddream]

In my opinion most people who like the system just wants to have stable friends and stable enemies, which we can already achieve in any older games by setting them as friend/foes on day 1.

I have NEVER met a single person who enjoys the rep DYNAMICALLY SWINGING. Why? Because we have satellites to replace, hostile ships to apologize to, stations to hack, and god know how many small trade/scout ships to replace.

People speak as if we hate the system because it's hard. Most of us have already logged hundreds of hours on AP or TC. It's absolutely not hard, but unstable and ungodly tedious.

This is not Mount & Blade where you go "lol whateves" when an empire declares war on you. Dipping into the red for one second will need hours of manual labors to bring things back to normal. Agents raise my rep yes, but do they replace my satellites? My trade ships? Do they calm down all the hostile laser towers?

Again, guys, you are enjoying a permanent friend/foe setting for each playthrough, which we can already do in all previous games. You are NOT enjoying a dynamically swinging reputation system. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Argent Valcendre]

Again, guys, you are enjoying a permanent friend/foe setting for each playthrough, which we can already do in all previous games. You are NOT enjoying a dynamically swinging reputation system. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I can‘t say anything as the reputation system seems broken. I‘d like to give it a try once it’s fixed.

[laux]

200MJ can't be bought by any mean by the "Other side" meaning you have to steal or you are screwed.

Have a look at CEOs Sprite. My HQ is full of 200MJ shilds i bought there.

Anyway, I've also decided to go with the Split. I still have a lot of fun after more than 100 hours in the current run. The only thing I needed so far from the "other side" were Cloth Rimes for production in HQ. But that has been a fairly easy problem to solve.

[phantomrock2]

wow did not think this would such a polarizing issue but as I see, it is
just have to maximize who you ca be friends with and not be friends with
I have 5 percent Hero of Sol and a couple of ranks from the highest one with the Teladi and after knocking out six or seven Teladi M2s in BT Delta the rank was at a all time low but after sending some agents I was able to get the rank back up so this gives me some wiggle room to leave the Sol System and do business with the Teladi and even do my rank with the Paranoid Argon Boron and Split and ugh the Yak are low I can still see all offering some very tempting credit rewards for doing missions. Does it seem limited? Yep? However, it gives the game an edge no like the other chapters.

[birdtable]

Not sure what "DYNAMICALLY SWINGING" reputation actually infers but I make full use of "SWINGERS" .. Based in Split territory and had no problem initially buying Cloth Rimes using barter/trade in Argon bordering sectors, eventually was lucky enough to get offered a Cloth Rimes factory blueprint, now have more Rimes than I could ever need but they sell well enough... Also finally got offered a Wheat Farm blueprint so that offered up a new income stream by enlarging it..... The only reason I ended up in Split Sectors was because of the initial excessive Xenon spawn and needed extra protection... Playing Terran Spy so my close association with the Split came back to bite me in the posterior later in game. The Devs are trying to introduce a more tactical and thinking aspect to the game so cut them a little slack..
As phantomrock2 said " It gives the game an edge " . ..."edge" is good.

[Cycrow]

Any side can get access to all the stations, you just have to steal the blueprints and build them at your HQ.
The Argon side is also missing some stations to buy that are on the Spilt/Paranid side. The 5 and 25mj shield factories cant be bought from Argon/Boron, and the Beam weapon factories are only available to Split
You can use your agents and HQ to plug any holes

Other than the plot, i cant think of any unique ships that you cant acquire on either side. Everything thats buyable at shipyards can be found in the universe (either flying around or from missions), or blueprints from the Explorers Guild/Missions

How are agents got again...oh yes...limited missions that immediately lower half the universe to enemy...not ideal at all. make it way less.....akin to the grind to raise your rank.
Also, the killing of xenon pirate or khaak in any system should not count as a rep change for enemies of the folks that own that system you do it in, whether you gain in rank with the system owner or not.

I am trying real hard to play this game unmodified but you guys really haven't a breeze whats fair and what isn't.

Argo.

This is not true. It depends very much on who you do the mission for and what ranks you are currently at
If you are at low ranks with a race then it takes very few points to drop into an enemy. So if you were rank 9 with argon, and rank 2 with Paranid and split. Doing a single mission for Argon will drop you into enemy, but thats only because your rank is so low.

if however you did a mission with Split or Paranid instead, then your Argon rank would barely move.
you can of course also do Teladi missions which will only drop your with the Yaki

doing an average mission for Argon at rank 9 will give you about 3000 notoriety points. This will barely move you 1%.
but when you apply 30% to thier enemies which is 1000 points, this is enough to drop from rank 4 to -2, simply because there are only about 400 points between all those ranks
but a agent using 1000 influence will get a minimum of 2000 notoriety points which could take you from -3 to +5

you can also get Agents through the Explorers Guild, which has no notoriety change

[Midnightknight]

Agents raise my rep yes, but do they replace my satellites? My trade ships? Do they calm down all the hostile laser towers?

I stoped using my satellite network in the end. Being spammed each time one of the corporation trader fly around and trigger the "Hostile ship". At first i had the solution to put laser towers before my first gate, but since you get attacked sooner or later by the police for doing so, you are forced to endure the everlasting spam, and more and more as more corporations turns hostile what can't be helped.

doing an average mission for Argon at rank 9 will give you about 3000 notoriety points. This will barely move you 1%.
but when you apply 30% to thier enemies which is 1000 points, this is enough to drop from rank 4 to -2, simply because there are only about 400 points between all those ranks
but a agent using 1000 influence will get a minimum of 2000 notoriety points which could take you from -3 to +5

That's funny cause -Xenon- claims everywhere, using screenshots to prove it, that with 1000 influence of an agent you can jump from -3 to +10. So at some point i really wonder what is going on with this system.

[Cycrow]

going from negative ranks was bugged, but its fixed in 1.2, both using agents and doing missions.
also note, the amount of notoriety you gain via Agents is dependent on the rank you are currently at, the higher the rank, the more points you will gain. The same is true with the negative ranks, the lower you are, the more you will gain.
There is however a minimum amount, which is twice the influence, this is mainly for the neutral ranks that have smaller gaps, allowing you to move through a few ranks at a time at the low levels