Russia-Ukraine War

[chew-ie]

Modern society my ass

[fiksal]

so we are on it seems.
whatever happened to all these "oh no Russia would never attack, it's all scare tactic". I can guess


https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60454795

Ukraine's foreign minister has tweeted: "Putin has just launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine."

He's stressed that Ukraine "will defend itself" and that "the world can and must stop Putin".

"Reports are now coming of explosions in several Ukrainian cities, and gunfire near Kyiv's main Boryspil airport."

[burger1]

Its looks like they cut communications. Belarus also invaded along with Russia? They are bombing the cities and airports. Their navy is gone.

Wonder if Ukraine has any kind of biological MAD plan left over from the cold war era.

[mr.WHO]

...so Taiwan next?

coz I really think China won't like to miss the opportunity as well.

[pjknibbs]

The opening salvo which will eventually herald the start of WWIII begins February 23rd, 2022.

If you think this is a preface to a world war you're fooling yourself. Nobody in the West is going to directly attack Russia over Ukraine. They'll sanction the heck out of them, but war? Nope.

[Warenwolf]

Wonder if Ukraine has any kind of biological MAD plan left over from the cold war era.

Nope.... They gave up all their stuff to Russians in exchange of guaranties of respecting the sovereignty (Budapest Memorandum).

[mr.WHO]

There are also things like:
- sharing satelite data
- sending loads of weapons
- taking wounded
- training volunteers
- taking refuges (the actual WAR refugees now, I bet now all media will give you about it is crickets)

There are a plenty of things you can do to support, but stupid media and stupid people are fixated on boots on the ground.
Ukraine has good army and disparity with Russia is not big if you consider that Russia is huge and has also other areas (including other potential flashpoints) to cover.
Maybe they can't will the war in the long run, but blood draw is well within their capability, which will be basically a major defeat for Russia.

[Olterin]

Wonder if Ukraine has any kind of biological MAD plan left over from the cold war era.

Nope.... They gave up all their stuff to Russians in exchange of guaranties of respecting the sovereignty (Budapest Memorandum).

Yep, and this is going to completely destroy any attempts at getting a deal of nuclear non-proliferation with any country in the future (starting with Iran). Because not having them is not an option anymore, apparently.

[Warenwolf]

Ukraine has good army and disparity with Russia is not big if you consider that Russia is huge and has also other areas (including other potential flashpoints) to cover.

Maybe... but I am bit skeptical. Reason being that this army has been sitting in trench warfare with rebels, with "action" limited to that. I am no expert and have no desire to read upon the subject but generally speaking if an army has been active in just one type of warfare for prolonged period of time, it can be challenging to transition into maneuvering type of warfare.But I am no expert here.

[unfounded conspiracy modus]
I am also thinking that we may see Orban (hungary) attacking to grab some land if given opportunity. Of course he will send in troops under guise of humanitarian action.
[/unfounded conspiracy modus]

whatever happened to all these "oh no Russia would never attack, it's all scare tactic".

They will switch onto blaming Ukrainians and West into provoking glorious Putin into expanding his territories. For team Putin, this is a day of celebration.

[mr.WHO]

Seem like Belarussian troops crossed the border as well, so it's 2v1.

I have 1939 flashbacks.

[Warenwolf]

Seem like Belarussian troops crossed the border as well, so it's 2v1.

I have 1939 flashbacks.

If you are Pole, I can totally see the parallels.

[Chips]

A truly suspicious mind would also ask when is this imminent invasion actually happening? The "any day now" theme has been going on since last year and yet Russian troops have been sitting on their side of the border doing - well - nothing. To me this seems more like a smokescreen from the Biden administration to divert interest from domestic problems.

There has never been a single shred of evidence presented by the US that Russia actually ever planned to invade. The US claimed that Russia will do so - Russia denied. The US claimed any day now - Russia denied. The Russians return to their barracks and the US still claim any day now.
The Russians do as they have been saying from the beginning and are still being accused of being the Axis of Evil? Time to take of your tinfoil hats...

Those stupid invasion warnings from US medias are laughable, maybe in 4 month it will get hot, meanwhile we will see what the west will do.

We will see if time proves me wrong.

Hindsight is always easy, but can't help but feel the dislike/distrust of USA/UK/EU/West overshadowed/discounted all the reports supplied with regards to the build just because "it's USA/EU saying it". You can be critical of both... it's not a "you're one side or the other" scenario.

Sad times regardless. So so so many people's lives are going to be violently cut short to satisfy Putin's ego (his state address over the validity of Ukraine as a state still makes me believe this would have happened regardless. It's not NATO, it's his legacy of rebuilding a stronk superpower Russia back to something that "matters"; Russia's become an also-ran in world politics and that smarts for Putin). Who knows what/where the end goal is going to be, his comments indicate he's got to "de-militarise" Ukraine -- a nations first role is the protection of its citizens, especially in their own country. If they're never allowed to protect their citizens because bullyboy next door deems any weapons they have a threat to its significantly larger countries security, then... what does that say for any bordering nation?

The only thing we're really seen so far is that Putin is full of lies. There's no way to trust anything he is saying with regards to what Russia is doing in Ukraine now, nor where it'll end.

As for "Only targeting military..." that they'll be claiming - as the US and the rest of us showed in Iraq/Afghanistan; you can have "the most advanced weapons...", there's always collateral, there's always mistakes. It's not just military who will die, and even if it were, the Ukraine military are citizens trying to defend their homes; they're not aggressors.

[greypanther]

As I linked earlier, his very recent speech sounded very much like one Hitler gave in Berlin in 1938, just before he annexed Sudetenland. History does have a habit of repeating itself.

The thing is, this has all been building for years now, just look at Putin's rhetoric? Just what has emboldened him though?

The first real warning signs were when, they began developing hypersonic missiles, which are clearly intended as a first strike weapon. ( From very quiet submarines. ) Also his alleged updating of the Russian submarine fleet, which is far superior to our submarine fleet. Another warning sign, is when Russian attack submarines have been found clearly scouting the British Trident base. Tracking trident? If he feels that he can neutralize our retaliation, to any use of nuclear weapons, then, ( at least in his mad mind, ) Mutually Assured Destruction, is no longer valid, and he might think he has nothing to fear...

He has also been updating his ICBM fleet, in ways we don't really know. The Russian army regularly train with the use of battlefield nuclear weapons, by them.

Has he had his fleet tracking US deterrent subs?

Then you have China, whom have also been developing hypersonic missiles, have also been using rhetoric similar to Hitler's. Taiwan anyone?

The biggest question is though where will he stop? I would be very nervous if I lived in any of the ex Soviet republics, or for that matter the Baltic states; Poland; Romania etc.

It seems to me, are damned if we do, damned if we don't. He has to be opposed, Hitler showed us that, but the problem with " ending his nation ", as someone said, is that even if we still can, it will also end ours. What chance humanity at the moment?

Worst of all, even if he stops with half of Ukraine, how many will die because of food price rises, in poorer parts of the world that depend on food grown there?

[mr.WHO]

Worst of all, even if he stops with half of Ukraine, how many will die because of food price rises, in poorer parts of the world that depend on food grown there?

Aparently Russian units broke out of Crimea and are already at the outskirts of Cherson (confirmed by Ukraine).
You don't need to be a military genius to see that everything east of Dnieper is pretty much FUBAR.

[greypanther]

Dnieper the new border? Yes pretty much half of Ukraine. The best we can hope for is a new Cold War...

[mr.WHO]

Dnieper the new border? Yes pretty much half of Ukraine. The best we can hope for is a new Cold War...

There is also Russian Transniestria in Moldowa-Ukrainia border and Odessa was under shelling as well, so Russian might as well go all in.
Aparently Russian paratroopers took an airport 10km from Kiev in massive helicopter attack.

[greypanther]

so Russian might as well go all in.

That is the worrying thing isn't it? Where will be enough for him?
Proper little Blitzkrieg eh?

[euclid]

Life Feed

Cheers Euclid

[Warenwolf]

However much your life sucks - it can always get worse:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-22/ ... /100847942

Life Feed

Cheers Euclid

Thanks Euclid. That being said - when it comes to wars, in the phase as Ukraine is now, I tend to not follow live coverage. Situation is chaotic and disinformation, wrong info and rumors tend to drown real information.

[euclid]

EU and Nato statements about 80 mins ago.

@Warenwolf I agree but it applies to all sources of information.

Cheers Euclid