Trump Presidency

[clakclak]

Just lean back an watch the show. See how comes out on top between the oligarchy wing and the MAGA base. Currently they are butting heads about Visa policy, but I feel like eventually the poorer elements of Trumps fanbase might end up understanding that people like Musk don‘t care about them and that their level of wealth means that he lives in a reality so far removed from their own he might be living in another country. I doubt they will understand that the same is true, but still, someone will come out on top. The interesting question is only who it will be and if Trump is capable of keeping his base divided so they don‘t eventually come after him, if things don‘t work out for them. Musk grew up in Apartheid South Africa and is probably a lot more familiar with the divide and conquer game than Trump, as he was born into a society based on it, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[matthewfarmery]

Which still tells me that Musk will be the one in charge. No matter how you spin this. And it's going to hurt quite a few in the process. Musk won't care, and neither will those that spin around his inner circle. People who Trump can only dream of being with.

I can see Musk gaining more and more power and influence, anyone still says he hasn't a government job, is very sadly mistaken. Trump's weak and feeble mind will not see this, but its likely he will still need Musk for now, but with the rest of his cabinet picks, it going to be chaos.

[chew-ie]

TBH the more that awful M gets involved in the politics the more I'm hoping for a balancing act by his greedy profession. No way other powerhungry CEOs let him overtake a whole country - good old competition will kick in.

And once the fallout of that balancing act is over US citizens maybe learn[ed again] why there are elections and democracy and no mob law. And hopefully the rest of the world, too. Maybe we even get some reservation against big money out of that in citizens minds, too.

[clakclak]

Which still tells me that Musk will be the one in charge. No matter how you spin this. And it's going to hurt quite a few in the process. Musk won't care, and neither will those that spin around his inner circle. People who Trump can only dream of being with.

I can see Musk gaining more and more power and influence, anyone still says he hasn't a government job, is very sadly mistaken. Trump's weak and feeble mind will not see this, but its likely he will still need Musk for now, but with the rest of his cabinet picks, it going to be chaos.

We will see how this turns out. Lavrentiy Beria was for a certain time the most dangerous person in the Soviet union, but in the end he was shot like a dog that outlived his usefullness and had become infested with rabbies. I could give a great many example's of henchman to the leader getting the boot, we will see how Musk turns out. I don't feel like he has the cult of personality that Trump managed to create. It will be interesting to see if he stays in power for Trump's termor if he gets kicked out before the end of it (whenever that may be). Along the way he will do a lot of damage, sure, but all of these people in Trump's orbit will do that. They are determined to restructure the American government to serve their interests, all salavating for their peace of meat. Like the ravenous beasts they are, they will claw bite and piss on one another in hopes of getting just a bit more from the still squirming corpse of the American government, their appetite unyielding and insatiable. The American public will get sprinkled with the gore of their mad carnage. The only question is, will the people convince themselves that the residual is a golden shower or will they recognise what is going on for what it is?

[matthewfarmery]

I would say that for a few of his cabinet picks, there going to be massive conflict of interest. The other problem is, Trump have very few guard rails, unlike last time. And fewer still will really say no to him. This will put congress and the senate at greater odds, with the welfare of the people VS Trump. While Musk will very likely remain in power to exploit America for his own greedy end. I don't see this ending well. Especailly if Trump tries and use his power to push other crazy / silly shit. Sadly, I see Trump being able to push stuff through, without much pushback. Especailly as the Supreme court giving him that kind of power.

[matthewfarmery]

Which still tells me that Musk will be the one in charge. No matter how you spin this. And it's going to hurt quite a few in the process. Musk won't care, and neither will those that spin around his inner circle. People who Trump can only dream of being with.

I can see Musk gaining more and more power and influence, anyone still says he hasn't a government job, is very sadly mistaken. Trump's weak and feeble mind will not see this, but its likely he will still need Musk for now, but with the rest of his cabinet picks, it going to be chaos.

We will see how this turns out. Lavrentiy Beria was for a certain time the most dangerous person in the Soviet union, but in the end he was shot like a dog that outlived his usefullness and had become infested with rabbies. I could give a great many example's of henchman to the leader getting the boot, we will see how Musk turns out. I don't feel like he has the cult of personality that Trump managed to create. It will be interesting to see if he stays in power for Trump's termor if he gets kicked out before the end of it (whenever that may be). Along the way he will do a lot of damage, sure, but all of these people in Trump's orbit will do that. They are determined to restructure the American government to serve their interests, all salavating for their peace of meat. Like the ravenous beasts they are, they will claw bite and piss on one another in hopes of getting just a bit more from the still squirming corpse of the American government, their appetite unyielding and insatiable. The American public will get sprinkled with the gore of their mad carnage. The only question is, will the people convince themselves that the residual is a golden shower or will they recognise what is going on for what it is?

Well written and thought out. I also don't see Musk lasting, but if he goes, it will be one ugly showdown. As Musk will say he used his influence to get Trump in,.So Trump owes Musk big time. So I don't think Musk will make Trump forget that. It's clear that Musk isn't fully on Trump's side, and has his own agenda. And clearly that agenda isn't to serve the American people's interests either.

[mr.WHO]

While I wouldn't call myself a fanboy, I held Musk in high regards for long time.

First red flag that poped out for me was during Gamestock event, when Musk poped out of nowhere and tried to diver people to sh*tty dogecoin.
Since then, I started to noticed Musk doing this constantly all the time.

For some time I though he's just trolling, but he keeps doing it while gaining more power and fame.

He's speedrunning to become unhinged Soros 2.0 at alarming pace.

[Observe]

There are things to admire about Musk and there are things not so much. He is a flawed human like all of us. Unlike most of us however, he has a rare penchant for doing the near impossible...over and over again.

Many consider his methods to be madness. Nevertheless, I'm interested to see what his contributions to the Trump administration may reap. The government is inefficient and wasteful in so many ways. I don't see Musk making things any worse than they are. If we are lucky, his not inconsiderable talents and passion will lead to improvements. What have we got to lose? Things will only continue to get more bogged down in wasteful inefficiencies and bureaucracy, if left to the usual cast of characters.

[felter]

I’m interested to know what you think Musks "not inconsiderable talents and passion" are, Personally I don't think he has any talent apart from annoying people and using others for his own personal gains. Right now he is running tesla into the ground, and the less said about what his talents has done for Twitter the better. So I'm not exactly sure what he exactly brings to Trump's so-called government, apart from himself and what he wants. Right now he is saying he came to America on a H1B visa when in reality he went to America on a student visa to study, never went to any kind of school and worked illegally and then got a H1B visa after the facts, so he is showing he is just as honest as Trump is, so there is that I suppose.

Here's a question, can anyone name something good he has ever done for anyone where he has not personally gained from doing so, or turned the event into a Musk circus to make him the centre of attention.

[PersonyPerson]

I’m interested to know what you think Musks "not inconsiderable talents and passion" are, Personally I don't think he has any talent apart from annoying people and using others for his own personal gains. Right now he is running tesla into the ground, and the less said about what his talents has done for Twitter the better. So I'm not exactly sure what he exactly brings to Trump's so-called government, apart from himself and what he wants. Right now he is saying he came to America on a H1B visa when in reality he went to America on a student visa to study, never went to any kind of school and worked illegally and then got a H1B visa after the facts, so he is showing he is just as honest as Trump is, so there is that I suppose.

Here's a question, can anyone name something good he has ever done for anyone where he has not personally gained from doing so, or turned the event into a Musk circus to make him the centre of attention.

No.

Musk has not done anything or even created anything himself. He continuously parasites off of other people's investments/creations and then tries takes credit for it by claiming he "founded" or "invented" them. In reality, he was sacked from PayPal for being an incompetent buffoon. He stole Tesla from its actual founders in where he retroactively named himself as a "co-founder" as part of a lawsuit settlement. It only survived because of government loans. He has also repeatedly scammed his customers over Tesla's "Full Self-Driving" capability, which has resulted in actual deaths. SpaceX only exists because it has always lived off of government subsidies. Many of his smaller companies(The Boring Company, Neuralink, SolarCity etc.) have produced nothing but outright scams. Even his beloved Starship is a scam because its capabilities are nothing and will never be anything compared to what Musk falsely claimed it would do 10+ years ago.

His only real "talent" is knowing how to manipulate stock markets, which is the main source of his wealth. He doesn't do this through actions but mainly through words. Those words are typically based on false hype, false promises and outright lies. It's the hype he figured out that he can industrially weaponise to make other people with wealth interested in his scammy projects, regardless of the lack of rationality for doing so. It's got to the point where his biggest cash cow, Tesla, has ridiculously over-inflated stock. Tesla is worth more than the rest of the automotive industry combined, despite the fact in reality they produce nothing anywhere close to a single other major car manufacturer, with the things that they do produce being vastly inferior to other said manufacturers. It's a Ponzi scheme that for some reason hasn't yet been cracked down upon. It makes you question whether the real problem is people like Musk, Trump, Farage etc. (Conmen), or the millions of utter morons who continuously believe them time after time. I've increasingly been in the latter camp. A conman cannot get power if there is no one they can con, which is why the kakistocracy from top to bottom is the true enemy.

Unlike the majority of the scams like you typically see on something like Kickstarter, Musk uses loopholes, his wealth, his influence and undeserved personal popularity in order to not get be taken to account for it, with an army of unhinged libertarian and "tech-bro" cultists that uncritically believe every false promise he ushers protecting him from what would otherwise be overwhelmingly deserved negative attention if media companies did their jobs properly. He has never achieved anything by merit. Was bankrolled by his dad that profited from Apartheid, until he conned more people into bankrolling him for his useless projects.

It is actually disgusting how the Americans have let him get away with his fraudulent behaviour for so long and allowed such an individual to legally acquire a large social media company... It should not have been any surprise to anyone that he is cheering on and trying to sponsor far-right terrorism in Europe (Cheering on the AfD and attempting to sponsor Reform UK). The only reason we haven't sanctioned him is because our governments do not have the backbone to treat dangerous rich individuals from the US like we do when they're from other aggressive and hostile regimes, regardless of the demonstrable harm that they bring onto us. It is a weakness that is rapidly becoming our undoing.

Musk should've been put in jail a decade ago.

[matthewfarmery]

That is very informative, which brings me to another possible conclusion. Musk might try and bring the US economy down. Put it this way, the debt ceiling will be reached some point January (I thought it was going to be later then that) So we will have another power play, and very likely another government shutdown. There will be those that will want to raise the debt ceiling, and those that don't. Musk clearly has influence around those that don't. Trump on the other hand will be screaming for it to be abolished or raised. So another power play between those men will certainly happen. I don't see Musk helping Trump. Something tells me, Musk will use his power to obstruct Trump. Trump will be weaker, but still. Musk is only out for himself.

Otherwise, what is in it for Musk? Why is he there at all? unless he really does plan on doing damage, or maybe spiral the US economy into the gutter. Unless there is another reason? then why bother influencing the spending bill? Like I said,I think Musk is flexing his muscles, and his influence will only increase. But to what end?

[matthewfarmery]

So much for putting America first,

President-elect Donald Trump told the New York Post he supports immigration visas for highly skilled workers, appearing to side with Elon Musk in the roiling intra-MAGA debate on the issue.

Said Trump: “I’ve always liked the visas, I have always been in favor of the visas. That’s why we have them.”

He added: “I have many H-1B visas on my properties. I’ve been a believer in H-1B. I have used it many times. It’s a great program.”

That isn't going to go down with this cult faithful, who think that Trump is helping Americans and helping to put them back into a good job. Just more BS from the kind of BS. By early or a bit later next year, I wonder how many will start to really hate his guts?

So much for MAGA, if average American jobs or higher are being taken by foreign nationals. His fanbase will probably start fuming at some point.

Edit

The backlash is already starting, with a few users on his social media platform accusing him of selling out America over this issue.

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-selling- ... -backlash/

A Truth Social user by the name of Joseph, who is known as @realconservitive and proudly boasts he has never voted for a Democrat, said, "#H1BVisa kills American jobs! PUT AMERICA FIRST AS PROMISED! Or MAGA will be destroyed!"

"Labor shortage in tech industry is a big lie. Don’t listen to F ing Elon!" the user added.

A user who claims to have voted for Trump, Aaronminus, also weighed in.

"Clarify your position on this now. Are you selling us out to Big Tech? Or are you America First? 'Buy American Hire American'? Remember?" the user wrote.

This is going to be a major fallout, I wonder how long before he changes his tune and backtracks on this? otherwise, his cult will probably have knives out. The GOP infighting will be something to see, buyers remorse is very likely.

[Chips]

So much for MAGA, if average American jobs or higher are being taken by foreign nationals. His fanbase will probably start fuming at some point.

Will they? I thought his fanbase were the uneducated and so on and so forth; at least that's the impression given with the dismissive nature of people's posting with regards to their fellow voters! Probably depends upon the H-1B Specialty Occupations Visa requirements?

The occupation requires:

• Theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge; and
• Attainment of a bachelor's or higher degree in the specific specialty (or its equivalent) as a minimum for entry into the occupation in the United States.

The position must also meet one of the following criteria to qualify as a specialty occupation:

• Bachelor’s or higher degree or its equivalent is normally the minimum entry requirement for the particular position
• The degree requirement is common to the industry in parallel positions among similar organizations or, in the alternative, the job is so complex or unique that it can be performed only by an individual with a degree
• The employer normally requires a degree or its equivalent for the position
• The nature of the specific duties is so specialized and complex that the knowledge required to perform the duties is usually associated with the attainment of a bachelor’s or higher degree.*

For you to qualify to perform services in a specialty occupation you must meet one of the following criteria:

• Hold a U.S. bachelor’s or higher degree required by the specialty occupation from an accredited college or university
• Hold a foreign degree that is the equivalent to a U.S. bachelor’s or higher degree required by the specialty occupation from an accredited college or university
• Hold an unrestricted state license, registration, or certification that authorizes you to fully practice the specialty occupation and be immediately engaged in that specialty in the state of intended employment
• Have education, specialized training, and/or progressively responsible experience that is equivalent to the completion of a U.S. bachelor’s or higher degree in the specialty occupation, and have recognition of expertise in the specialty through progressively responsible positions directly related to the specialty.**

https://uscis.gov/working-in-the-united ... ccupations

If your "average" American job requires a bachelors degree as a minimum, then I'm sure they'll be outraged. But it still seems at odds with how people refer to them...

So how many jobs require a degree in the US? Says only 17.6% of job postings require a degree. "Average" is 1 in 6?
https://www.spglobal.com/marketintellig ... t-86507076

Apparently the average educational attainment in the US per state:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education ... ted_States

Rep vs Democrate states
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_state ... lue_states

A quick correlation to the average education attainment vs Republican/Democrat states indicates that Republican states it's 27-33% of people have degrees, whilst democrat states its approx 36-42%.

It'd seem a *bit* hopeful that his base will get outraged?

Or is it trust in the outrage that gets generated at headlines, rather than bothering to do any reading? That does indeed appear to work across the board. There's hope for you on that front then.


As for Musk - seeing the hatred really does example how we ignore readily available information that'd contradict our opinions for convenience. I mean, I can't stand the guy either, but...

[Vertigo 7]

but what? but just because he's rich he should be given a pass for racism and antisemitism? but just because he owns a potentially successful private space company we should ignore his hypocritical stance on free speech? but just because he claims he's gonna champion government waste reduction, we should ignore the absurd amount in government subsides the world's richest man has been happy to ask for and receive?

Just because the guy did a guest appearance on the Big Bang Theory, pretending to work food service for the homeless, that doesn't mean he's an actual humanitarian and/or worth a tinkers damn bit of respect.

[Chips]

but what? but just because he's rich he should be given a pass for racism and antisemitism? but just because he owns a potentially successful private space company we should ignore his hypocritical stance on free speech? but just because he claims he's gonna champion government waste reduction, we should ignore the absurd amount in government subsides the world's richest man has been happy to ask for and receive?

Just because the guy did a guest appearance on the Big Bang Theory, pretending to work food service for the homeless, that doesn't mean he's an actual humanitarian and/or worth a tinkers damn bit of respect.

I may be mistaken, but this response is strawman. Feel free to provide any relevance to what I posted *if* it's aimed at me.

[Vertigo 7]

but what? but just because he's rich he should be given a pass for racism and antisemitism? but just because he owns a potentially successful private space company we should ignore his hypocritical stance on free speech? but just because he claims he's gonna champion government waste reduction, we should ignore the absurd amount in government subsides the world's richest man has been happy to ask for and receive?

Just because the guy did a guest appearance on the Big Bang Theory, pretending to work food service for the homeless, that doesn't mean he's an actual humanitarian and/or worth a tinkers damn bit of respect.

I may be mistaken, but this response is strawman. Feel free to provide any relevance to what I posted *if* it's aimed at me.

It is aimed at you. You're claiming readily available information about him is being ignored. That's readily available information about him that's not being ignored and pretty common knowledge. It seems like pretty damn good reasons to hate the guy. Are you claiming it isn't? that all of that ridiculous behavior of his is just par for the course and the hatred is unwarranted?

[matthewfarmery]

@Chips

They might start fuming if American jobs are no longer American jobs, but imported immigration worker. I mean, Trump is also trying to say that illegal immigration people should be booted, but now saying he and Musk need people from other countries to start filling up higher end jobs. That really not American first, is it? What Trump told them, to some degree, is that he will put America first. But now, he no longer needs them. So back stabbed the very people he needed to get back into the WH.

They won't be dumb enough to realise that, or realise that Trump no longer cares about them. So it could lead to a lot of infighting. But we all know that he was full of BS from the very start, his gullible fanbase eat every word of it. And this is very likely the start. As for his stance, Trump could flip flop, but that would also be a dangerous game to play.

[Observe]

Issues around the H1-B foreign worker visa are multi-faceted and complex. This touches on subjects including education, fair wages, cultural conflicts, politics, corporate competition, economics etc.

In an ideal world it would be simple: Companies could hire skilled individuals from anywhere in the world without restriction. Alas, as humans are involved, things tend to get complicated.

I'm guessing that Trump has done a 180, after receiving a lesson from Musk about the benefits of
American companies being able to form the best 'teams' by hiring the top available talent in the world. In other words, "make America great again". Whatever that means. There are certainly plenty of people for whom America was never great to start with and likely won't be any time soon.

Whatever Musk is or isn't, he has tremendous wealth and the power that comes with it. It was to Biden's detriment that he snubbed Musk at every turn. One key example was when Biden neglected to include Musk and Tesla at a White House event in 2021 to promote electric vehicles. Executives from Ford, General Motors and others, along with representatives from the United Auto Workers were invited. The word is that Biden excluded Tesla because they weren't a union company. If Musk wasn't already one, Biden made an enemy of him that day.

In any case, it is good that these things are being publicly discussed. The cage needs rattling. Love or hate him, Musk is accomplishing that much.

[mr.WHO]

Issues around the H1-B foreign worker visa are multi-faceted and complex. This touches on subjects including education, fair wages, cultural conflicts, politics, corporate competition, economics etc.

This is another example of Musk smoke and mirrors BS.

H1-B visa is not about high skilled workforce (there is a separate visa, O-1 for ultra skilled specialist) - Musk out of all people can't feint ignorance in this matter - He try to push for H1-B, yet he use ultra-skill specialist as example for suporting it.

Musk is straight up lying in people face and barelly anybody is taking any effort to challenge him.

[clakclak]

So much for MAGA, if average American jobs or higher are being taken by foreign nationals. His fanbase will probably start fuming at some point.

Will they? I thought his fanbase were the uneducated and so on and so forth; at least that's the impression given with the dismissive nature of people's posting with regards to their fellow voters! […]

Who, besides Trump, said that his fanbase are the uneducated? Guy got a lot of votes, I‘d assume there is a non insignificant amount of educated people among them. America has a rather high % of its population that is college graduated, so with his voter numbers there is bound to be at least a certain % of educated and highly educated people among them.

As for the topic at hand, I am surprised that the visa stuff is taking people off guard. Getting cheap yet qualified labor is paramount for any employee so it should not surprise anyone that the oligarch class like Trump and Musk will do anything to ensure their supply of such human resources. The real question is why people still believe that billionaires care about them. American or Indian, what matters is not who you are, but what value you can generate for them. If someone on a visa generates more value, by demanding a lower wage, they prefer them. If a machine does it cheaper they will switch to that. Simple as that. It is business and labor cost is just a number in the equation that must be reduced.