Trump Presidency

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Chips
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by Chips »

Vertigo 7 wrote: Sun, 29. Dec 24, 17:07 It is aimed at you. You're claiming readily available information about him is being ignored. That's readily available information about him that's not being ignored and pretty common knowledge. It seems like pretty damn good reasons to hate the guy. Are you claiming it isn't? that all of that ridiculous behavior of his is just par for the course and the hatred is unwarranted?
As said, Strawman.
clakclak wrote: Mon, 30. Dec 24, 02:05 Who, besides Trump, said that his fanbase are the uneducated?
Well, that's easy :)Just search "moron" and this thread to find out who calls Trump voters morons, idiots, stupid, trumpanzees etc. As said, "I was given the impression..." with regards to this form - nothing more :)

But H1-B is about skilled workers, so whether it'll really rile up the voters remains to be seen. Probably relies heavily upon someone doing the "whipping up" - and we've all seen how little evidence, accuracy, honesty, transparency is required to result in a change in beliefs, thoughts, intent.
Mr Who wrote: H1-B visa is not about high skilled workforce (there is a separate visa, O-1 for ultra skilled specialist) - Musk out of all people can't feint ignorance in this matter - He try to push for H1-B, yet he use ultra-skill specialist as example for suporting it.
Something doesn't seem quite right here. "High skilled workforce" before mentioning the "Ultra skilled specialist". Already linked the criteria of the high skilled, so here's the 0-1

That was *their* definition of high skilled, not mine. So here's the O-1.
O-1 Visa: Individuals with Extraordinary Ability or Achievement
  • The O nonimmigrant classification are commonly referred to as:
  • O-1A: Individuals with an extraordinary ability in the sciences, education, business, or athletics (not including the arts, motion pictures or television industry);
  • O-1B: Individuals with an extraordinary ability in the arts or extraordinary achievement in motion picture or television industry;
  • O-2: Individuals who will accompany an O-1 artist or athlete to assist in a specific event or performance; and
  • O-3: Individuals who are the spouse or children of O-1 and O-2 visa holders.

    Documentation of the beneficiary’s receipt of nationally or internationally recognized prizes or awards for excellence in the field of endeavor.
    Examples:
  • Awards from well-known national institutions and well-known professional associations.
  • Certain doctoral dissertation awards and Ph.D. scholarships.
  • Certain awards recognizing presentations at nationally or internationally recognized conferences.

    Considerations:
    While many scholastic awards do not have the requisite level of recognition, there are some Ph.D. scholarships or dissertation awards, for example, that are nationally or internationally recognized as awards for excellence such that they may satisfy the requirements of this criterion. Relevant considerations include, but are not limited to:
  • The criteria use to grant the awards or prizes;
  • The national or international significance of the awards or prizes in the field;
  • The number of awardees or prize recipients; and
  • Limitations on eligible competitors.

    Documentation of the beneficiary’s membership in associations in the field for which classification is sought, which require outstanding achievements of their members, as judged by recognized national or international experts in their disciplines or fields.
    Examples:
  • Membership in certain professional associations.
  • Fellowships with certain organizations or institutions.
    Considerations:
  • The petitioner must show that membership in the association requires outstanding achievements in the field for which classification is sought, as judged by recognized national or international experts.
https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-un ... chievement

I mean it's their own published specifications and naming of the visas that you're disagreeing, its not *my* interpretation, but that's quite a difference.

But as this started out - people believe it's going to rile up the base and cause issues whereby he'll U-Turn. Think Observe already pointed out, Trump already has... he originally said he'd do away with H1-B didn't he, though the news is so flooded with the current statements that Googling will take time I don't wish to expend to find it. That he's now appearing to support it *after* Elon Musk spoke about it does give the impression that someone has quite the influence...

And yes, I think Musk is an epic (&*$!! But the American people voted for this, so we'll have to see how this all goes. For sure 2 epic egos will, eventually, fall out.
Last edited by Chips on Mon, 30. Dec 24, 14:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by matthewfarmery »

I think there is another issue why his MAGA fanbase is up in arms, Trump promised to curb immigration. So now he and Musk are saying we need more workers in the US to fill high tech jobs. And Musk is now saying "I will go to war over this issue"

But those that believed him were warned that Trump was full of BS. So things are pretty much in turmoil for the GOP.
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by Chips »

matthewfarmery wrote: Mon, 30. Dec 24, 14:43 I think there is another issue why his MAGA fanbase is up in arms, Trump promised to curb immigration. So now he and Musk are saying we need more workers in the US to fill high tech jobs. And Musk is now saying "I will go to war over this issue"

But those that believed him were warned that Trump was full of BS. So things are pretty much in turmoil for the GOP.
Is it because this is the first bit of "immigrant" related news they've heard regarding upcoming policy? As far as I remember it was illegal migration, those undocumented migrants within the US, the DACA and so on, that were being attacked as "Anti American" immigration stances.

Overall, skilled workers are seen as a top priority for immigrants to come in on. At least, with those supporting it.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads ... -priority/

I'd imagine some fiery rhetoric and anti-illegal press releases will smooth the furore. After all, those seemed to be the areas he promised to "curb" immigration on, right?
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by clakclak »

Chips wrote: Mon, 30. Dec 24, 14:37
Vertigo 7 wrote: Sun, 29. Dec 24, 17:07 It is aimed at you. You're claiming readily available information about him is being ignored. That's readily available information about him that's not being ignored and pretty common knowledge. It seems like pretty damn good reasons to hate the guy. Are you claiming it isn't? that all of that ridiculous behavior of his is just par for the course and the hatred is unwarranted?
As said, Strawman.
clakclak wrote: Mon, 30. Dec 24, 02:05 Who, besides Trump, said that his fanbase are the uneducated?
Well, that's easy :)Just search "moron" and this thread to find out who calls Trump voters morons, idiots, stupid, trumpanzees etc. As said, "I was given the impression..." with regards to this form - nothing more :)
We could split hairs about rather or not intelligent and educated are synonyms, I personally don't think so, as I am a person with a university degree and still often a dumb idiot. That being said, Trump himself said that he "won with highly educated". So either he is lying (which I mean it is Trump, so it is always an option) or his base is not only the poorly educated.
matthewfarmery wrote: Mon, 30. Dec 24, 14:43 I think there is another issue why his MAGA fanbase is up in arms, Trump promised to curb immigration. So now he and Musk are saying we need more workers in the US to fill high tech jobs. And Musk is now saying "I will go to war over this issue"

But those that believed him were warned that Trump was full of BS. So things are pretty much in turmoil for the GOP.
In the end it does not really matter what his fanbase thinks anymore. They have fullfilled their purpose and he does not need them now, no matter how much they may or may not puff out their chest. They have no power beyond their vote and they are about to find that out the hard way.
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by Vertigo 7 »

Chips wrote: Mon, 30. Dec 24, 14:37
Vertigo 7 wrote: Sun, 29. Dec 24, 17:07 It is aimed at you. You're claiming readily available information about him is being ignored. That's readily available information about him that's not being ignored and pretty common knowledge. It seems like pretty damn good reasons to hate the guy. Are you claiming it isn't? that all of that ridiculous behavior of his is just par for the course and the hatred is unwarranted?
As said, Strawman.
Begging your pardon, your majesty, but you made the claim. Are you immune to being challenged? "I mean, I can't stand the guy either, but..." YOUR words. What's the 'but' there? Finish your thought. Tell us why we're wrong for despising him
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by matthewfarmery »

“House Democrats are pushing back furiously against a proposed change to House rules that would allow only Republicans to force a vote on removing the speaker of the House,” Axios reports.

“Top Democrats are arguing the move would inhibit bipartisanship and effectively make House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-LA) answerable only to his members — not the entire House.”

Said Rep. Jim McGovern (D-MA): “This makes it clear that they have no intention of working together to find common ground.”
So, I don't see this really working. The GOP clearly has no idea what kind of chaos this will bring, when they only have a very slim majority in the house at all. If they are saying, that only the house GOP can oust a speaker, then what about trying to find comman ground when it comes to other matters? I think the way things are going for the GOP. This will probably wind up hurting them more then they realise.

So basically, the dems won't give a damn, when it comes the debt ceiling, or a spending bill. The GOP simply can't govern in their current state.
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by Chips »

Vertigo 7 wrote: Mon, 30. Dec 24, 18:53
Chips wrote: Mon, 30. Dec 24, 14:37
Vertigo 7 wrote: Sun, 29. Dec 24, 17:07 It is aimed at you. You're claiming readily available information about him is being ignored. That's readily available information about him that's not being ignored and pretty common knowledge. It seems like pretty damn good reasons to hate the guy. Are you claiming it isn't? that all of that ridiculous behavior of his is just par for the course and the hatred is unwarranted?
As said, Strawman.
Begging your pardon, your majesty, but you made the claim. Are you immune to being challenged? "I mean, I can't stand the guy either, but..." YOUR words. What's the 'but' there? Finish your thought. Tell us why we're wrong for despising him
I addressed someone's post - it was with regards for dismissing Musk as having done nothing, contributed nothing, only fed off of others. Google will help you find out - that's just not true. Go back to his early days.

True, he's "led" companies via employing talented and skilled people to do his bidding, but then we're down the path of "leadership is not a skill" again.

The rest of whatever you've posted with the "he's racist, he's an ass, he's blah blah DO YOU NOT AGREE WITH THIS?!?!?" is the strawman. You're not addressing the discussion, you're trying to insert a tangent that implies by NOT agreeing with your opinion I'm somehow a bad person, or do support something generally accepted as bad/negative/wrong/against the norm. I have absolutely given zero indication or time on this. I don't. I have posted repeatedly over the last year that I think Musk is an arse and not a nice person.

All I was posting was "hang on, he does have some talents, we may not like them, but he has transformed companies and is a key driver in those changes - and we don't get to rewrite history nor claim things are factually wrong, just because we don't like someone". The "but" you're hung up on is exactly this; it was too subtle.

Somehow, rather than recognise this or address it, instead this is being manipulated to imply I support his viewpoints/attitude and am defending his character. It is *literally* the textbook definition of Strawman that I'm being cast in that light.

Now begone back to the ignore list as this is the only way you engage with anyone who doesn't align with YOUR opinion - as you have the way of being "if you disagree, I must smash you and insult" - it's tedious and been going on for *years* now. Frankly, you're wasting my time as you've zero engagement beyond trying to create conflict / antagonism, and so it's time to permanently ignore going forward.
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by matthewfarmery »

The problem is with Musk, he sticking his nose and his fingers in places where they are not needed. He has or is having more say and power then Trump, he now trying to meddle in EU and UK affairs. He thinks he has power and wants to use it. For a so called adviser, he way too powerful, and is meddling in stuff that he has no right to meddle in.

I don't trust him, I don't see this ending well. Trump is a lame duck president elect, while Musk will be the one sitting on the throne. Really, he should not have being able to buy Twitter. I think was that a stupid mistake. Now he is here to stay. And like the spending bill, he meddled with that. I just wonder what else he will meddle with? and what outcome that will be? What is his goal? his endgame? I fear he is flexing his muscles, and this is just the beginning. As for Trump, its becoming clear, that Trump is getting influenced by Musk, but again, what is the end game? Again, Musk is not to be trusted, even less so then Trump.

Edit


Looks like Jonhson is loosing the fight to remain speaker, So despite Trump trying to rally people to his aid, that has fallen flat. Now the question is, what side does Musk stand in? even though he might have wanted Johnson at first, I'm just wondering, if this chaos is what Musk really wants? Trump is losing his power over congress, that is for sure. So Musk seems have influence still. I wonder how long until he steps into the ring and declares who will be the next speaker and what will it cost?

edit 2

Johnson is still speaker, so Trump will be happy, two voters switched back to Johnson on the first round of voting. Lets see how long he lasts this time?
Last edited by matthewfarmery on Fri, 3. Jan 25, 20:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by Observe »

matthewfarmery wrote: Fri, 3. Jan 25, 19:20Really, he should not have being able to buy Twitter.
Why should Musk have not been able to buy Twitter? People can choose to use it or not. I find X to have value for me. There are various scientists, philosophers, game companies, AI and more that I like to be informed about the latest developments. Also, I find Grok AI to be useful at times. FYI: I blocked Elon Musk because I tire of his egotistical "me, me, me" nature. However, as a social media and alternative news site, X is serving a purpose that millions find useful.

Elon Musk has a personal narrative and agenda, just as do many others who ply their influence known or unknown. Keep in mind, no matter how loudly Musk preaches from his pulpit, he and Trump will have to work within the mechanisms of government to accomplish anything. More often than not, the so-called 'balance of powers' results in much talk with little action.
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by matthewfarmery »

Basically, it has given Musk a megaphone to help Trump and his raise to power. The chaos surrounding the spending bill is proof of that. It's just another rung up the ladder to the corridors of power for Musk.
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by Observe »

matthewfarmery wrote: Fri, 3. Jan 25, 20:39 Basically, it has given Musk a megaphone to help Trump and his raise to power. The chaos surrounding the spending bill is proof of that. It's just another rung up the ladder to the corridors of power for Musk.
Can you remember a spending bill in the US that wasn't chaos due to competing and conflicting interests? I can't. It always seems to be a last-minute do-or-die fiasco. It's true that having Twitter has given Musk (and others) a megaphone to compete with other platforms. Nothing wrong with that. BTW I'm not trying to dismiss your concerns, which are indeed legitimate imo.
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by matthewfarmery »

But if you remember, BOTH parties agreed to the last spending bill, it was only when Trump and Musk got involved, did things spiral out of control. And there was a prospect of a government shutdown. Trump wanted the spending bill to pass, Musk did not. I would say, before those too got involved, that spending bill would have one of the few that would have past without much drama.

Soon, there will be another drama, and it going to be interesting which side Musk takes, and if Trump is forced to agree with Musk or not. Same as last night, over the speaker fight, sure, it was another circus, but only the republicans seem to be having real issues. I see Musk hand there too. Not sure if he claiming credit yet, but wouldn't surprise me if there was a backroom deal for a vote for Johnson.

And this chaos will probably just be the start of things to come.
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by chew-ie »

Yet another indicator for the "funny" times the USA is going into with their "dream team": Musk got caught again as he parroted nonsense of his rightwing extremist echo chamber. This time it went against Starmer / UK and in the process Musk and Farage (formerly best buddies <3) are now throwing punches.

Not sure what anyone still sees in that suit, but behaviour like this is neither fit for a CEO level nor for the political stage. :roll:

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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by matthewfarmery »

Musk and Trump may likely have a showdown.
A long-time Trump friend told Maggie Haberman that Donald Trump is “a one-ring circus” and that there’s not room for Elon Musk.

Said Haberman: “I’m not sure that Musk has figured that out yet. And Trump does complain a bit to people about how Musk is around a lot,”

She added: “So he really parked himself in Trump’s face. But what that looks like… when Trump becomes president? I don’t know.”
Of course Musk will be in Trump;s face, Musk will be demanding more and more in the coming months. Musk's raise to power is only really starting. Either Trump tries to get rid of him, or Musk will very likely make things difficult for Trump. But they will come to blows. I can see things getting interesting. Maybe Trump should have not bothered to have Musk;s help? but there is always a price. And I don't think Trump realises that yet.
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by Observe »

The more Musk stirs things up on the domestic and international stage, the more Trump can be seen as a voice of moderation. I'm guessing this is a deliberate strategy that the two have agreed upon.

Trump will be in the White House soon enough and Musk will be busy attending to whatever he wants. Neither will be happy until liberal governments and progressives are defeated worldwide. On that front, they are united.

Trump has much to gain by association with Musk. Likewise, Musk has much to gain by being in a position to manipulate the government to make things easier for his (and others) businesses to prosper. It's a marriage made in heaven (or hell, depending on point of view).
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by clakclak »

Observe wrote: Tue, 7. Jan 25, 19:26 The more Musk stirs things up on the domestic and international stage, the more Trump can be seen as a voice of moderation. I'm guessing this is a deliberate strategy that the two have agreed upon.
Oh come on. This is not some 5d chess move. These people aren't playing some weird game. Your voice of reason just said that he wouldn't rule out taking Greenland and the Panama Canal by military force. He is out here declaring imperial ambitions and threatening wars against allies because he wants to appear like a voice of moderation? Weird way to do that. (Also so much for Trump being anti-war, that lie is out the window now.) These are not strategic geniuses coming up with plans. They are two narcissists acting on feelings. You really think Musk is a genius? Really? This guy?
Observe wrote: Tue, 7. Jan 25, 19:26Trump will be in the White House soon enough and Musk will be busy attending to whatever he wants. Neither will be happy until liberal governments and progressives are defeated worldwide. On that front, they are united.

Trump has much to gain by association with Musk. Likewise, Musk has much to gain by being in a position to manipulate the government to make things easier for his (and others) businesses to prosper. It's a marriage made in heaven (or hell, depending on point of view).
I mean that last part we can agree on. Depending on ones view and depending on rather you are employee or employer this is either heaven or hell for you.
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by mr.WHO »

You missed annexation of Canada to the stack.
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by matthewfarmery »

For someone who is suppose to be just an advisor, Musk has far too much power and influence. And as I stated recently, Trump tried to address the fact that Musk isn't president, so that means, Trump already looking over his shoulders. I don't think Trump fully realizes the cost for Musk's help yet. Musk will continue to gain power, while Trump may struggle? But still, Trump will threaten, and is no peace maker. He may very well continue with his threats, how far that goes, is anyones guess.

Edit

You can also add that Trump is threatening hell if the Hamas Hostages Aren’t Released. What will he do if they aren't? Declare all out war?

Edit 2


From an article I read, Trump will have access to only a handful of people who will have access to the Oval Office. probably to try and cover up his dementia and his failing health. Now the key question is, will Musk have access to Trump? or will he be shown the door each time?

Still, they are trying desperately to hide things from people, or maybe have $50,000 entrance fee to see the president?
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by fiksal »

future US president:
- (repeatedly) threatened Canada
- threatened Greenland and Denmark
- threatened Panama with military

the American province is gonna shrink its number of allies
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Re: U.S. Presidential Election 2024

Post by matthewfarmery »

and threatens Hamas

So yes, This is a president who may very well declare war on a few nations. Which will most certainly invoke WW3. Trump is the kind of person to do this. Especially if Putin gets him to do it first. And with a fool for a defence secretory, I can see things going his way, unless more of the 3 / 4 star generals say no? And try and take the nuke codes from the man-baby's hands?

Seriously, I can see Trump doing this. and his cabinet picks all yes men.

@Observe,
“In June 2019, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. traveled to the small Pacific island nation of Samoa, where he met with activists calling for Samoans to skip measles vaccines and opt for alternatives instead. Now that visit — and the country’s subsequent measles outbreak — are receiving new political attention, as Democrats and advocates seek to block Kennedy’s confirmation as America’s top health official,” the Washington Post reports.

“Five months after Kennedy’s visit, Samoa declared a measles emergency, with leaders warning that vaccination levels had declined precipitously.”
More proof that that fool isn't able to do this job, I hope he doesn't get the job, otherwise, his policies could very well harm more people in the coming year /s. I don't see what you see him in? I mean come on, he is dangerous with those views. Especailly if his anti vaccine policy winds up hurt more people, like the above example.

Edit

Trump is NOT ruling out military force to take Greenland and the Panama Canal. All I see is all out war if that happens.

Edit 2#
“President-elect Donald Trump is considering declaring a national economic emergency to provide legal justification for a large swath of universal tariffs on allies and adversaries, as Trump seeks to reset the global balance of trade in his second term,” CNN reports.

“The declaration would allow Trump to construct a new tariff program by using the International Economic Emergency Powers Act, known as ‘IEEPA,’ which unilaterally authorizes a president to manage imports during a national emergency.”
I can see this happening, once he unleashes his tariffs, he could invoke this. and bring even more chaos into the mix. I really don't think this is a mild threat, I can see him doing this. A dictator would. And this is the direction Trump is taking.
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