[MOD] [TC/AP] X3 Rebalance Mod (XRM) - Total conversion - v1.30d (02.12.13)

[nap_rz]

no, a single bomber shouldent be able to wipe out a capital ship in 10 seconds....

M6 is capital too. And M8 usually cannot kill well defended destroyer or M7 in so little time. I killed these guys when I was on lowish fight rank, in my M3. Now if you complained about G's or other M7M's, I would show more compassion

i will say i encounred a Xenon missile cruiser an that also killed me in seconds but im talking about a M8 bomber killing a M7 with 5 GJ of sheild plus with the High armour mod on with it

it alone simply destroyed my ship in 1 Salvo..... or 2 salvos put together some how cause it was just a swarm of missiles flying right into me the SECOND i jump in to the gate.

p.s M6 isnt a capital ship, its a corvette basicly its a Gunboat.

M7 (frigate) is smallest class of capital ship

what ship were you in? did you use turret script? did you have the correct weapons?

im in a Hayabusa one of the Heaviest M7 ships i believe, but i didnt even get a chance to use my weapons, when i jumped in, before i realise anything i had a huge swarm of missiles coming at me an it just killed me right there, didnt get a chance to turn to fire back...

the bombers fire salvoes just waaaay to large, if they fired no more than 2 at a time than it be a more fair fight. and more balanced,

unless the bomber and missiles already near you (like <5 km) when you jumped it (missiles reacquired new target, that is, you) I don't see how a Hayabusa, providing you set it up well, can be defeated in such easy way...

like i said its overpowered... my ship is fully set up, full sheilds an everything.

p.s off this particular subject, Paul, these arms dealer stations, arnt they a little bit too generous? they sell everthing in huuuuge quantities, bit much isnt it?

how about your guns and turret command?

about weapon dealers selling everything in huge quantities, well, try equipping a fleet full of tyrs and bragis without them

btw I haven't seen a Valhalla in this XRM AP...

isnt that where Producing your own factories comes into this?

i thought thats one of the main pointers is to build an empire? building your own ships, building your own weapons so you dont have to rely on buying it from the other factions equipment docks.

i dont like havuing everything i could possibly need in 1 station..... it kinda spoils the game doesnt it?
having weapons dealer to sell a few things in much smaller quanitties would be better an less spoiling the game

not everyone bothers or want to build factories...

[ShadowGod56]

no, a single bomber shouldent be able to wipe out a capital ship in 10 seconds....

M6 is capital too. And M8 usually cannot kill well defended destroyer or M7 in so little time. I killed these guys when I was on lowish fight rank, in my M3. Now if you complained about G's or other M7M's, I would show more compassion

i will say i encounred a Xenon missile cruiser an that also killed me in seconds but im talking about a M8 bomber killing a M7 with 5 GJ of sheild plus with the High armour mod on with it

it alone simply destroyed my ship in 1 Salvo..... or 2 salvos put together some how cause it was just a swarm of missiles flying right into me the SECOND i jump in to the gate.

p.s M6 isnt a capital ship, its a corvette basicly its a Gunboat.

M7 (frigate) is smallest class of capital ship

what ship were you in? did you use turret script? did you have the correct weapons?

im in a Hayabusa one of the Heaviest M7 ships i believe, but i didnt even get a chance to use my weapons, when i jumped in, before i realise anything i had a huge swarm of missiles coming at me an it just killed me right there, didnt get a chance to turn to fire back...

the bombers fire salvoes just waaaay to large, if they fired no more than 2 at a time than it be a more fair fight. and more balanced,

unless the bomber and missiles already near you (like <5 km) when you jumped it (missiles reacquired new target, that is, you) I don't see how a Hayabusa, providing you set it up well, can be defeated in such easy way...

like i said its overpowered... my ship is fully set up, full sheilds an everything.

p.s off this particular subject, Paul, these arms dealer stations, arnt they a little bit too generous? they sell everthing in huuuuge quantities, bit much isnt it?

how about your guns and turret command?

about weapon dealers selling everything in huge quantities, well, try equipping a fleet full of tyrs and bragis without them

btw I haven't seen a Valhalla in this XRM AP...

isnt that where Producing your own factories comes into this?

i thought thats one of the main pointers is to build an empire? building your own ships, building your own weapons so you dont have to rely on buying it from the other factions equipment docks.

i dont like havuing everything i could possibly need in 1 station..... it kinda spoils the game doesnt it?
having weapons dealer to sell a few things in much smaller quanitties would be better an less spoiling the game

not everyone bothers or want to build factories...

lol my god its fourmception

[Nemesis_87]

btw, is the hub in xrm ap?

[morikaane]

aaaghhh..... too much........ quoting........... *dying*

btw, is the hub in xrm ap?

No, the Hub plot isn't in XRM:AP but the hub itself is --- its non-functional, so I've heard. There's a post out there in ES where a bunch of people are trying to throw all the TC plots into AP. I'm not sure how far along they are yet...

having weapons dealer to sell a few things in much smaller quanitties would be better an less spoiling the game

Deja vu?

Paul will say that the Weapons Dealers are staying. If you don't like the idea of them don't buy weapons from them (this discussion has been had before, at tremendous length).

M.

[Nick 031287]

aaaghhh..... too much........ quoting........... *dying*

btw, is the hub in xrm ap?

No, the Hub plot isn't in XRM:AP but the hub itself is --- its non-functional, so I've heard. There's a post out there in ES where a bunch of people are trying to throw all the TC plots into AP. I'm not sure how far along they are yet...

having weapons dealer to sell a few things in much smaller quanitties would be better an less spoiling the game

Deja vu?

Paul will say that the Weapons Dealers are staying. If you don't like the idea of them don't buy weapons from them (this discussion has been had before, at tremendous length).

M.

yeah but it takes away some elements of the game, if paul limits what the weapons dealer sells, so it doesnt simply sell EVERYTHING it wont spoil the game so much. and dont tell me to not play XRM simply cause of it.... i love this mod, just the little things like these that just annoys me, does noone see my point??

[nap_rz]

aaaghhh..... too much........ quoting........... *dying*

btw, is the hub in xrm ap?

No, the Hub plot isn't in XRM:AP but the hub itself is --- its non-functional, so I've heard. There's a post out there in ES where a bunch of people are trying to throw all the TC plots into AP. I'm not sure how far along they are yet...

having weapons dealer to sell a few things in much smaller quanitties would be better an less spoiling the game

Deja vu?

Paul will say that the Weapons Dealers are staying. If you don't like the idea of them don't buy weapons from them (this discussion has been had before, at tremendous length).

M.

yeah but it takes away some elements of the game, if paul limits what the weapons dealer sells, so it doesnt simply sell EVERYTHING it wont spoil the game so much. and dont tell me to not play XRM simply cause of it.... i love this mod, just the little things like these that just annoys me, does noone see my point??

everyone annoyed by some points

now, any other super TP than the Bat? what do the Paranid and Split have? haven't seen them yet

[joelR]

aaaghhh..... too much........ quoting........... *dying*

btw, is the hub in xrm ap?

No, the Hub plot isn't in XRM:AP but the hub itself is --- its non-functional, so I've heard. There's a post out there in ES where a bunch of people are trying to throw all the TC plots into AP. I'm not sure how far along they are yet...

having weapons dealer to sell a few things in much smaller quanitties would be better an less spoiling the game

Deja vu?

Paul will say that the Weapons Dealers are staying. If you don't like the idea of them don't buy weapons from them (this discussion has been had before, at tremendous length).

M.

yeah but it takes away some elements of the game, if paul limits what the weapons dealer sells, so it doesnt simply sell EVERYTHING it wont spoil the game so much. and dont tell me to not play XRM simply cause of it.... i love this mod, just the little things like these that just annoys me, does noone see my point??

I do see your point and even at one time I agreed with you but I will say that its actually rather nice having them ready when buying a new ship. You still have the option of setting up your own complexes. There are a few things about XRM that dont fit my style of play and so I learned some basic modding to change things. Overall I agree with how paul and mizuchi have done things. Weapons dealers are a pretty fundamental part of the XRM experience so they wont be going anywhere. Maybe you could teach yourself a few things and remove them? Either that or play for awhile and see how the fit rather well into the XRM universe.

[Teladidrone]

Not liking that all ships and weapons are easily buyable.
Rarer ships should have to be boarded (and take the huge rep dive that AP has introduced) and then rebuild by yourself if you want more of them.
But unfortunately XRM is apparently going down the same route that X-Tended has taken - everything is for sale in almost unlimited quantities (these "PAR" shipyards fall into the same category here).
This takes away a huge part (setting up logistics/own factories/complexes) of the game and kills long time motivation pretty fast.

[mr.WHO]

There should be a forum rule to limit quotes in quotes to 3 levels - who need to go deeper?

[Nick 031287]

Not liking that all ships and weapons are easily buyable.
Rarer ships should have to be boarded (and take the huge rep dive that AP has introduced) and then rebuild by yourself if you want more of them.
But unfortunately XRM is apparently going down the same route that X-Tended has taken - everything is for sale in almost unlimited quantities (these "PAR" shipyards fall into the same category here).
This takes away a huge part (setting up logistics/own factories/complexes) of the game and kills long time motivation pretty fast.

thats EXACTLY what im trying to say, it kills the need to have to build your own production facilities to get what you want easier.....

i mean, whats the point putting EVERYTHING for sale in a single station?

i mean if you wanna go down that road, why not just let us buy every ship from 1 shipyard?
i dont wanna bother boarding Xenon ships, its to haaard......
lets have a ship dealer that sells Xenon ships, and kha'ak ships too, cause its too haaaard to capture them.....

is that the next step?

Lazy Gamers is one of the main people responsible of all the great games getting Dumbed down these days.
dont ruin a good mod paul.... this mod is about rebalancing is it not?

a good game is a game that makes a challange, sure weapons dealer is a good idea, but dont make them sell EVERYTHING at HUGE quantities... make it reasonable like diffrent weapons dealer deals in diffrent weapons from diffrent areas. so the game is still a challange, and still gives the player a Purpose to have to resort to manufacturing his own weapons to arm his own fleet.
And thats what makes X a great game...
dont just tell people like me to "pretend its not there then" becuase it is there and i know its there and i cant just ignore it...

[morikaane]

yeah but it takes away some elements of the game, if paul limits what the weapons dealer sells, so it doesnt simply sell EVERYTHING it wont spoil the game so much.

Again, you do not need to use the Weapons Dealers. The Weapons Dealer M and Weapons Dealer L sell different wares. It also varies depending upon which race the dock belongs to, with exception to the Weapon's Dealer XL.

Do not forget that you can remove any product from a station with the Cheat Package. That includes weapons / missiles for sale at the Weapons Dealers.

and dont tell me to not play XRM simply cause of it.... i love this mod, just the little things like these that just annoys me, does noone see my point??

I did / would not suggest or imply that you should or should not play XRM. No one here would tell you that. XRM is for everyone (and awesome).

Not liking that all ships and weapons are easily buyable.

You don't need to buy them.

Nothing is preventing you from boarding or capturing them.

If you are looking for ships that exist in the game that can't be bought there are a substatial number of them (argon / teladi / boron pirates, xenon and the khaak... and that sneaky unknown ship ).

Cheers,
M.

[A5PECT]

I have to agree with Nick and Teladidrone.

I understand that you try to add challenge by making weapons dealers hard to find, but once you find it the challenge is gone. At that point it undercuts the entire need for the player to set up his own combat infrastructure. You no longer need to spend any time or money searching for NPC stations that have weapons in stock them or setting up your own factories to produce them.

Would it be possible to make them move around? Sort of like pirate bases, but they change locations at set intervals rather than when they're destroyed.

You could justify it moving about by converting a ship model like a TL into a station (also like Pirate Bases).

At least have some kind of AL option to turn them off.

[nap_rz]

Not liking that all ships and weapons are easily buyable.
Rarer ships should have to be boarded (and take the huge rep dive that AP has introduced) and then rebuild by yourself if you want more of them.
But unfortunately XRM is apparently going down the same route that X-Tended has taken - everything is for sale in almost unlimited quantities (these "PAR" shipyards fall into the same category here).
This takes away a huge part (setting up logistics/own factories/complexes) of the game and kills long time motivation pretty fast.

thats EXACTLY what im trying to say, it kills the need to have to build your own production facilities to get what you want easier.....

i mean, whats the point putting EVERYTHING for sale in a single station?

i mean if you wanna go down that road, why not just let us buy every ship from 1 shipyard?
i dont wanna bother boarding Xenon ships, its to haaard......
lets have a ship dealer that sells Xenon ships, and kha'ak ships too, cause its too haaaard to capture them.....

is that the next step?

Lazy Gamers is one of the main people responsible of all the great games getting Dumbed down these days.
dont ruin a good mod paul.... this mod is about rebalancing is it not?

a good game is a game that makes a challange, sure weapons dealer is a good idea, but dont make them sell EVERYTHING at HUGE quantities... make it reasonable like diffrent weapons dealer deals in diffrent weapons from diffrent areas. so the game is still a challange, and still gives the player a Purpose to have to resort to manufacturing his own weapons to arm his own fleet.
And thats what makes X a great game...
dont just tell people like me to "pretend its not there then" becuase it is there and i know its there and i cant just ignore it...

yes... just pretend it's not there then let's see it this way, you can still play it the way you want to play, but me? for example I never want to have complexes, so without these weapon dealers selling everything in high quantity, it will take forever for me to fully equip a capital ships, let alone in multiple numbers... mind you I never done boarding either TBH I haven't really understand the mechanic of both and yes I'm lazy in that gameplay area what I actually want to see is something that can be said as integrating the concept of modern fighter simulation mechanics into this spaceship game, things like multiple sensors systems, multiple way of reading the sensors, complex weapon management, 'avionics' and their variations if you may say so... but that is just a dream I may never see...

[Nick 031287]

Not liking that all ships and weapons are easily buyable.
Rarer ships should have to be boarded (and take the huge rep dive that AP has introduced) and then rebuild by yourself if you want more of them.
But unfortunately XRM is apparently going down the same route that X-Tended has taken - everything is for sale in almost unlimited quantities (these "PAR" shipyards fall into the same category here).
This takes away a huge part (setting up logistics/own factories/complexes) of the game and kills long time motivation pretty fast.

thats EXACTLY what im trying to say, it kills the need to have to build your own production facilities to get what you want easier.....

i mean, whats the point putting EVERYTHING for sale in a single station?

i mean if you wanna go down that road, why not just let us buy every ship from 1 shipyard?
i dont wanna bother boarding Xenon ships, its to haaard......
lets have a ship dealer that sells Xenon ships, and kha'ak ships too, cause its too haaaard to capture them.....

is that the next step?

Lazy Gamers is one of the main people responsible of all the great games getting Dumbed down these days.
dont ruin a good mod paul.... this mod is about rebalancing is it not?

a good game is a game that makes a challange, sure weapons dealer is a good idea, but dont make them sell EVERYTHING at HUGE quantities... make it reasonable like diffrent weapons dealer deals in diffrent weapons from diffrent areas. so the game is still a challange, and still gives the player a Purpose to have to resort to manufacturing his own weapons to arm his own fleet.
And thats what makes X a great game...
dont just tell people like me to "pretend its not there then" becuase it is there and i know its there and i cant just ignore it...

yes... just pretend it's not there then let's see it this way, you can still play it the way you want to play, but me? for example I never want to have complexes, so without these weapon dealers selling everything in high quantity, it will take forever for me to fully equip a capital ships, let alone in multiple numbers... mind you I never done boarding either TBH I haven't really understand the mechanic of both and yes I'm lazy in that gameplay area what I actually want to see is something that can be said as integrating the concept of modern fighter simulation mechanics into this spaceship game, things like multiple sensors systems, multiple way of reading the sensors, complex weapon management, 'avionics' and their variations if you may say so... but that is just a dream I may never see...

you just want everything handed to you on a silver platter.... thats not part of the game. why dont you just use cheat scripts? thats for lazy players
theres no need for a good mod to make shortcuts like this.. it ruins it for people who wanna play the game properly

[morikaane]

I understand that you try to add challenge by making weapons dealers hard to find, but once you find it the challenge is gone. At that point it undercuts the entire need for the player to set up his own combat infrastructure. You no longer need to spend any time or money searching for NPC stations that have weapons in stock them or setting up your own factories to produce them.

Weapons Dealers do not prevent you from doing so. You cannot blame anyone but yourself for taking the easier option. Nothing is preventing you from building your own combat infrastructure*.

* except your bank account.

Would it be possible to make them move around? Sort of like pirate bases, but they change locations at set intervals rather than when they're destroyed.

All you need do is keep a single fighter docked to it and it never will move. I'm not sure if having them move around would change anything.

Though... if used properly and not exploited... it might make a difference and if it isn't too difficult to do perhaps Paul will consider it.

At least have some kind of AL option to turn them off.

I'm not sure if that would work. They're actually integrated into the universe and managed by GOD not scripts like they were in SRM (because you could turn them off in that).

M.

[A5PECT]

Weapons Dealers do not prevent you from doing so. You cannot blame anyone but yourself for taking the easier option. Nothing is preventing you from building your own combat infrastructure.

I'm fully aware of the"don't like it, don't use it" concept, and I practice it. I just wish I didn't have to. When I have to do that I just see it as a wasted opportunity to add depth to gameplay.

Isn't part of the purpose of XRM supposed to make no ship completely obsoleted by another ship? Aren't there supposed to be no "I win" ships?

Weapons Dealers are "I win" stations. Weapons dealers make weapon factories completely obsolete. Time is just as much of a resource as money; and weapons dealers remove time as a requirement from acquiring weapons. If you're going to give that advantage to dealers than you need to give them some kind of disadvantage to balance them out (sound familiar?). That's why I suggested making the stations move, so they're a quick way to get weapons, but not something you can rely on.

All you need do is keep a single fighter docked to it and it never will move. I'm not sure if having them move around would change anything.

I'm not entirely familiar with the script editor, but I'm pretty sure there's an instruction to force a ship to undock from a station. Just run that line of code before the one that moves the station.

Although, if you really want to be mean you can just delete the station while the player's ship(s) are still inside. This is the script engine we're talking about here, not GoD.

At least have some kind of AL option to turn them off.

They're actually integrated into the universe and managed by GOD not scripts like they were in SRM (because you could turn them off in that).

That I didn't know; I was wondering why the option was removed. I guess if I want dealers out of my universe I can just throw together a script that removes them.

That's my only real gripe. I know I can just leave the dealers there and ignore them, but the obsessive part of me wants them gone if they aren't going to be used.

I mean, they're just there.

Mocking me.

[ external image ]

[Valenzio]

Not liking that all ships and weapons are easily buyable.
Rarer ships should have to be boarded (and take the huge rep dive that AP has introduced) and then rebuild by yourself if you want more of them.
But unfortunately XRM is apparently going down the same route that X-Tended has taken - everything is for sale in almost unlimited quantities (these "PAR" shipyards fall into the same category here).
This takes away a huge part (setting up logistics/own factories/complexes) of the game and kills long time motivation pretty fast.

thats EXACTLY what im trying to say, it kills the need to have to build your own production facilities to get what you want easier.....

i mean, whats the point putting EVERYTHING for sale in a single station?

i mean if you wanna go down that road, why not just let us buy every ship from 1 shipyard?
i dont wanna bother boarding Xenon ships, its to haaard......
lets have a ship dealer that sells Xenon ships, and kha'ak ships too, cause its too haaaard to capture them.....

is that the next step?

Lazy Gamers is one of the main people responsible of all the great games getting Dumbed down these days.
dont ruin a good mod paul.... this mod is about rebalancing is it not?

a good game is a game that makes a challange, sure weapons dealer is a good idea, but dont make them sell EVERYTHING at HUGE quantities... make it reasonable like diffrent weapons dealer deals in diffrent weapons from diffrent areas. so the game is still a challange, and still gives the player a Purpose to have to resort to manufacturing his own weapons to arm his own fleet.
And thats what makes X a great game...
dont just tell people like me to "pretend its not there then" becuase it is there and i know its there and i cant just ignore it...

yes... just pretend it's not there then let's see it this way, you can still play it the way you want to play, but me? for example I never want to have complexes, so without these weapon dealers selling everything in high quantity, it will take forever for me to fully equip a capital ships, let alone in multiple numbers... mind you I never done boarding either TBH I haven't really understand the mechanic of both and yes I'm lazy in that gameplay area what I actually want to see is something that can be said as integrating the concept of modern fighter simulation mechanics into this spaceship game, things like multiple sensors systems, multiple way of reading the sensors, complex weapon management, 'avionics' and their variations if you may say so... but that is just a dream I may never see...

you just want everything handed to you on a silver platter.... thats not part of the game. why dont you just use cheat scripts? thats for lazy players
theres no need for a good mod to make shortcuts like this.. it ruins it for people who wanna play the game properly

this mod hasnt ruined anything.... dont use EQD to stock your ships with weps/shield only do so with what your factories make. Simple as that!

And who says stocked EqD arent proper? the universe has been around long before your so called character has been alive! there should be some sort of stocks already there and maintained in a way.

[mib666007]

Haha, I thought the weapons dealers were vanilla AP...I kinda raised an eyebrow the first time I saw them. WAY too easy , maybe a config to remove them from the galaxy?


Also - are the borders super heavily guarded or is it just me??

[Valenzio]

Haha, I thought the weapons dealers were vanilla AP...I kinda raised an eyebrow the first time I saw them. WAY too easy , maybe a config to remove them from the galaxy?


Also - are the borders super heavily guarded or is it just me??

dont use em same affect!

andd borders hmmm, seem some are more guarded then others.




In my travels I have found a Weapons Dealer EqD that has 80 stock of every weapon/shield in game! i was surprised when I seen that.

[deca.death]

having weapons dealer to sell a few things in much smaller quanitties would be better an less spoiling the game

Oh for sakes remove damn quotes of 50 people before you, and use only text that is relevant for what you trying to say. It's like basic web netiquette. You wouldn't wipe your nose with your sleeve in public, now would you?

i thought thats one of the main pointers is to build an empire? building your own ships, building your own weapons so you dont have to rely on buying it from the other factions equipment docks.

Well you were (and still are) in delusion if you thought so. This game can be played in countless ways and no way is more right then other. I've steal 50 Terran warships in vanilla, and they HAD no economy. They had no capital weapons to sell.

Now make me a complex that would arm 50 destroyers in some reasonable time. You would need like 100+ PSP/SSC factories, with all supporting industry. Sometimes it is cheaper to just buy damn things then to produce them. And building big complexes is major pain in the ass. I hate it.

you just want everything handed to you on a silver platter.... thats not part of the game. why dont you just use cheat scripts? thats for lazy players
theres no need for a good mod to make shortcuts like this.. it ruins it for people who wanna play the game properly

My friend, get a grip, pronto. It's not for you to decide who's lazy and way other ppl suppose to play games. That's rude and inconsiderate. And frankly quite immature.

With some of the new additions to the M6 class I am having a ridiculously hard time trying to decide on my first corvette. Has to be Argon/OTAS and I will be using it as my personal ship for a while. Any suggestions?

Sentinel versions are great for AA control, but not to kill other vettes. I had dragon sentinel and it was really awesome ship, fast, maneuverable, with ton of gun points. Split M6 weaponry is much faster then CW normal variants. From heavy vette "hunters" H.Hydra has everythig. Speed, shield, steer, cargo. No weak spots. And weapons that peel of shields 2 x better then normal M6 maingun /PPC shield damage really. For hull you have cyclones and 6 PRGs under the chin. I used to take down pirate shirke and other M7 with H. Hydra alone.

I have this itch to do some high paid VIP limo services throughout the universe :devil: what's the best, armed to the teeth, TP ship available?

If this game is anything like vanilla that could be one and only - boron angel.