[MOD] [TC/AP] X3 Rebalance Mod (XRM) - Total conversion - v1.30d (02.12.13)

Sorkvild · Post by **Sorkvild** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 14:17

paulwheeler wrote:Only the hidden xl weapon dealer jumps in xrm.

Strongarms weapon dealer. The one with huge stock and all laser & missiles. I just wanted to say they stay in one sector for too long

dougeye · Post by **dougeye** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 14:30

Sorkvild wrote:
paulwheeler wrote:Only the hidden xl weapon dealer jumps in xrm.
Strongarms weapon dealer. The one with huge stock and all laser & missiles. I just wanted to say they stay in one sector for too long

there are many weapons dealerers in xrm all of them but one stay in exactly the same position as they start so strong arms will probably be there infinitly.

MMBR update ...

As Paul sais and as i pointed out in my testing essay i wrote lol defence force responses are over powered with MMBR rearguard. I have now switched Rearguard off but when i was testing i went overboard and set the counter to 5000. hence why i got 10 m1/m2 jump in against the single Bragi lol

Im using MMBR becauee i want not just a terran argon conflict but i want the rest of the races to have active militaries! nothing like a universe wide war going on!

swatti · Post by **swatti** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 14:34

Someone mentioned ships from other games in XRM, I dont see problem with that as long as the famous ones stay out of it(star destroyers, trekkie-tubs, etc)

Who ever designed most of the new terran ships has played a lot of Homeworld and personaly id say thats one game that has lot to offer for this mod.

mr.WHO · Post by **mr.WHO** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 14:44

I wonder - if M/AML is frigate only - M6 grade weapon, and Terrans have two M6 grade weapons, then why not make M/AML a full frigate weapons (both compactibility and power wide) as Terrans lack proper M7 weapon for their wide range of frigates and cruisers.

Mizuchi · Post by **Mizuchi** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 14:57

In regards to the M/AM thing:

You're all starting to sound like hardcore WoW raiders arguing about which weapon has the best DPS to Speed ratio.

That's not good.

[ external image ]

I mean, does it matter? Really? Is it really worth fighting over? Just pick the one you like best and hold down the "fire" button until the enemy goes away.

mr.WHO · Post by **mr.WHO** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 15:05

Hey Mizuchi - a friendly advice - GTFO with those frequent pony images, there was a guy almost banned here for same pony spam. It's fun from time to time, but once you cross the line you start to irritate people.

deca.death · Post by **deca.death** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 15:10

mr.WHO wrote:I wonder - if M/AML is frigate only - M6 grade weapon, and Terrans have two M6 grade weapons, then why not make M/AML a full frigate weapons (both compactibility and power wide) as Terrans lack proper M7 weapon for their wide range of frigates and cruisers.

As I was saying, no race has them, except teladi. You really want to give already cool and uber terran ships real M7 gun? Who would choose anything else, ever, to fly? If Terrans get it all should. It's "all or none" business. We'll exclude teladi, their ships are somewhat mediokrish. They have gauss C. because of that exactly.

I say make something wild and unexpected with it :) like ... long range bomb launcher. High damage, 10km range, low ROF low bullet speed :) Pepper form distance and pray :)

Alternatively; weed out aldrin guns (good idea, really) and introduce argon/boron and split/paranid version of M7 gun. no, wait, we are still one type short... damn.

Erenar · Post by **Erenar** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 15:11

Don't... want... to... bite.....

So you are ok with heated over-opinionated whine but not My Little Pony?

What has the world come to??? That is Mizuchi's trademark and being the co-author of XRM I believe it may be his right to post what he wants in this thread.

Damnit, I bit

Sn4kemaster · Post by **Sn4kemaster** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 15:31

deca.death wrote: IBL is nerfed from vanilla. Now it's exactly mid way between capital guns (roughly 10k shield damage) and M6 guns (5k) with 7.5k. Teladi M7s use it too (yaki and pirates both). Weapon has nothing to do with PPC except lore or perhaps original intention of Ego. It's a weapon of it's own class.

I think on this one we will have to agree to disagree for the sake of the forum...

Enemy has no business in your aft. Cyclops can bring 3x4 PPCs on target, in worse case 2x4. That's twice then Kvasir. And PSP has worse ROF from all capital non beam weapons. Which is again a flaw, imho. Beam works better the bigger, slower and better armed/armored you are. Not an M7 gun.

No of course it hasn't but under AI control your Cyclops will be showing its ass as much if it were starring in a porn movie! Under Player control i agree that its probably top dog though for M7+, Interesting though the PSP although slower and with a lower rate does have a noticeably bigger punch than the Argon PPC.

Ocelot, no question there. Lateral ISRs work wonders on missiles and fighters, not to mention PALCs. Truly awesome ship, reminds me of old vanilla powerful M7s. It can take out even K with some good piloting, although in XRM frigates are not supposed to "clean entire sectors" as in vanilla and it's considerably more difficult killing ship from "upper" class then yours. Also has 9 main guns and energy to actually use them, unlike many M7+es.

Aggy has to use M6 PPG in spinal, and tri beam are somewhat "lighter" then other capital beams. but 8+8 of them actually should kick nicely, I have to test that ship more.

But yes, AI loves turrets, Kvasir is best mini warship out there. I just feel crippled shooting from my side whole the time

I like the Ocelot, always have but you need to try the Agamemnon out more, AI vs AI between the too the Aggy will generally get the better of the Ocelot ....... just!

But don't fit the Tri Beam, the PSG is the weapon of choice for the Aggy (and all paranid cap ships) it does more shield and hull damage and is faster than say the PPC and has a huge bullet which will connect with most things.....its just a little short on range... brilliant weapon 2nd only to the Split anti cap gun! so PSG on front turret, PPG on main guns and the EDA on the other turrets doing anti-fighter role...its a tough little ship.

Sn4kemaster · Post by **Sn4kemaster** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 15:34

mr.WHO wrote:Hey Mizuchi - a friendly advice - GTFO with those frequent pony images, there was a guy almost banned here for same pony spam. It's fun from time to time, but once you cross the line you start to irritate people.

That's a bit OTT

Its his mod as much as Paul's, and he was just being friendly and telling us all to calm it.

nap_rz · Post by **nap_rz** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 15:34

paulwheeler wrote: Regarding m/am:

It is intended as frigate only weapon.

Looking at damage per hit is not as useful as looking at damage per second or minute - that is how I have balanced the weapons. If you want a quick easy reference look at the mars data file as this states damage per second and is up to date.

Also, bullet speed is a big factor as is refire rates, especially as oos in AP now takes it all into account.

I know m/am is a favourite of many from vanilla, probably because there was no alternative and due to it being ammo based, it was very powerful. In the xrm it is just another gun.

Having said that, I will look at it again as I do remember having a dilemma of what to do with it as no other race has two medium weapons.

Be aware that I am limited by the game engine - you can't just keep adding weapons - we have 32 subtypes to play with - thats it, and xrm uses them all already.

(although I was thinking of removing the aldrin weapons which would free up one subtype)

Oh, and please keep weapon discussions calm... (I feel another beam argument disaster coming on...)

I think I have to throw another argument here...

MAML was IMHO never a frigate weapon, remember back then why you added FPD in CMOD? yes! we wanted a terran frigate weapon! so honestly I'm at disbelieve if you as the creator of FPD say that MAML was/is a frigate weapon...

I gotta ask to you and anyone here the same question I asked before (because, it hasn't answered actually) : as it is currently in this XRM, disregarding the ware size and notoriety anomaly;

on what ship do you think it's worth mounting MAML now? on which turret/frontal gun?
against what do you think it's good at? are you sure there's no equal or even better alternative than using MAML for that situation?

please consider these questions thoroughly...

still I want to make this final point : just give corvettes MAML...

I'll stop thinking this lol... and wait for someone complain that it makes terran corvettes overpowered

Jack08 · Post by **Jack08** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 15:38

mr.WHO wrote:Hey Mizuchi - a friendly advice - GTFO with those frequent pony images, there was a guy almost banned here for same pony spam. It's fun from time to time, but once you cross the line you start to irritate people.

No, he was almost banned for arguing, i remember clearly because it got cadius's thread locked and Freya came over and joined the XTL comunity right after.

Mizuchi isnt breaking any rules, the image spesifications are well within the rules of size and resolution.

NOValdemar · Post by **NOValdemar** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 15:39

Mizuchi wrote: That's not good.

me gusta

Oh and Btw some guns will just be bad alternatives. Its part of the game to try and find which ones work and which ones are just red herrings

Coruskane · Post by **Coruskane** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 15:47

Hi all,

Am I blind / not explored enough yet or do Terrans not have any source of Marines?

mr.WHO · Post by **mr.WHO** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 15:51

Jack08 wrote:
mr.WHO wrote:Hey Mizuchi - a friendly advice - GTFO with those frequent pony images, there was a guy almost banned here for same pony spam. It's fun from time to time, but once you cross the line you start to irritate people.
No, he was almost banned for arguing, i remember clearly because it got cadius's thread locked and Freya came over and joined the XTL comunity right after.

Mizuchi isnt breaking any rules, the image spesifications are well within the rules of size and resolution.

Well see about that. As I said a little pony from time to time is fun and OK, but in the last post there is 3 Ponys and of his actuall post 10% is a message and 90% is giant pony image. It's easy to predict it's only a matter of time when he start ponyspam rampage.
Better safe than sorry.

nap_rz · Post by **nap_rz** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 15:53

as for how do we balance weapons stats...

I think

for in sector, it should be damage / hit / hit box size / speed

DPS is not good enough to measure how good a weapon is during IS... why? look at the flaks.... DPS wise they are not much better than EMPC, HEPT, ISR, GPE and etc... but... a big but here....

look at SSC... DPS wise it's not different than other flaks + PALC but damage/hit wise SSC is scary...no kidding, SSC damage/hit is almost as potent as anti M7 weapons... so when it hit, it hit with superior punch than other flaks so that it kills enemy fighters faster than other flaks...

why does that happen? I believe because of the factor I said before, damage / hit / hit box size / speed, well..., add "against enemy movement" factor there...

this is the same reason I said that EMR are useless to be used in capital ships turrets against fighters and missiles, because they tend to miss a lot despite of it high rate of fire and speed.... though, this is quite different when you use the EMR on frontal gun and you use the auto aim + boresight shooting mode...

the EMR damage / hit is so small that when it hit, it lack punch...

so for IS, IMO it's not just DPS...

mr.WHO · Post by **mr.WHO** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 15:59

this is the same reason I said that EMR are useless to be used in capital ships turrets against fighters and missiles, because they tend to miss a lot despite of it high rate of fire and speed.... though, this is quite different when you use the EMR on frontal gun and you use the auto aim + boresight shooting mode...

Well I think that ERM is very good turret weapon for M6 and smaller. Vidar Sentinel and Shamshir are more effective with EMR than with EMPC (that fail badly as turret weapon and it cost much), while anything lighter need something to fill the turrets for missile defence - again EMR is much more effective and cost effective, especially on fighters and freighters.

TrixX · Post by **TrixX** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 16:03

mr.WHO wrote:Hey Mizuchi - a friendly advice - GTFO with those frequent pony images, there was a guy almost banned here for same pony spam. It's fun from time to time, but once you cross the line you start to irritate people.

That's not very nice, though I do remember you being blunt to the point of rudeness to more than a few times in both this thread and Cadius's old one. Kindly keep it to yourself, including your irrational pony irritation.

As for the MAML issue, I would agree that the Terrans lack an M7 weapon. Not really my place to say, but it does make life harder at the fleet scale for Terrans until you grab a couple of M2's...

nap_rz · Post by **nap_rz** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 16:05

mr.WHO wrote:
this is the same reason I said that EMR are useless to be used in capital ships turrets against fighters and missiles, because they tend to miss a lot despite of it high rate of fire and speed.... though, this is quite different when you use the EMR on frontal gun and you use the auto aim + boresight shooting mode...
Well I think that ERM is very good turret weapon for M6 and smaller. Vidar Sentinel and Shamshir are more effective with EMR than with EMPC (that fail badly as turret weapon and it cost much), while anything lighter need something to fill the turrets for missile defence - again EMR is much more effective and cost effective, especially on fighters and freighters.

yes... it's quite odd though, EMR works a bit better on smaller ships turrets... don't know why...

Mizuchi · Post by **Mizuchi** » Sat, 28. Jan 12, 16:39

mr.WHO wrote:Hey Mizuchi - a friendly advice - GTFO with those frequent pony images, there was a guy almost banned here for same pony spam. It's fun from time to time, but once you cross the line you start to irritate people.

"People" in this case being you.

Given the pace at which this thread moves along, and given that the Ponies have been a running joke with XRM since long before you jumped ship from Cadius's thread, I must respectfully decline your suggestion.

As for "the other guy", that was a case of "look! look! I can meme too!" As others have stated, the spammage there was a symptom of the real issue.

(Incidentally, for those who might be under the impression that I'm a "Brony", I'm totally not. I just like the meme. Klohunter actually started the joke going, way-back-when.) :3

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[MOD] [TC/AP] X3 Rebalance Mod (XRM) - Total conversion - v1.30d (02.12.13)