[MOD] [TC/AP] X3 Rebalance Mod (XRM) - Total conversion - v1.30d (02.12.13)

mr.WHO · Post by **mr.WHO** » Sat, 16. Jul 11, 21:16

Another bug found:
Argon Titan mk. I down turret cannot fire, unless turned to really narrow angle.

BTW would it be possible to have X2 carriers to have launch ports (like small number 1 or 2 ports) for fighters, coz same port for landing & launching don't work well, even in X2. Such small refit would be an obvious one for X2 oldies.

BTW-2 Doesn't X2 M2 supose to be weaker than modern designs? Coz for me personnaly they are only a bit weaker than modern M2 and because they are smaller, they are actually easier to evade fire. I think that they supose to be a bit more powerful than modern standard M7 and on par with advance heavy M7.

Anyway I was looking around this mod that supose to be in some part use in XRM:
http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=294175

Do those ships are/can be use in XRM:

Aldrin fighters:
http://www.imagebanana.com/view/ic21u87 ... pestM4.jpg
http://www.imagebanana.com/view/8b64sgt ... caneM5.jpg

Xenon Bomber:
http://www.imagebanana.com/view/whri4te7/XenonSM8.jpg

Teladi ships:
http://www.imagebanana.com/view/sxpiqwb ... albeM7.jpg
http://www.imagebanana.com/view/yjwlw5z ... oranM1.jpg

Schwalbe could be a Teladi MTS (military TS with good shield and weapons), something to ferry a really precious cargo

Kormorant could be Teladi light destroyer and due to the size of Phoenix they really need light destroyer more than other races.

EDIT: It looks like pirate ships are now the most useful due to the wide weapon compactibility. New pirate Marauder is a shining example.

EDIT2:
Any chance to include Mechanis ship from his shippack in the future?

EDIT3:
What is the diffrence between Nexus and Centaur Sentinel? Nexus has better frontal firepower, but Sentinel has twice the shields, both have a lot of turrets.

Bany · Post by **Bany** » Sat, 16. Jul 11, 21:24

What about Pirate Guild and Yaki mods, are they compatible and/or logicaly ok with XRM?

paulwheeler · Post by **paulwheeler** » Sat, 16. Jul 11, 21:25

mr.WHO wrote:Couple of possible bugs:
1) Megalodon can't mount Ion cannons, only Plasma Beam cannon - strange because destription say it's an Ion Frigate.

2) Teladi Raven is able to mount ISR, that supose to be split weapon.

3) Teladi Geocheon is unable to mount EBC that supose to be Teladi weapon.

4) The Terran heavy Frigate (former Cadius Hiroshima) has rudiculosly large side turrets, they looks kinda out of place and too big for that ship.

Anyway, what are the PAR ships? how do they work?

Thanks for the report. The hayabusa quad turret is intentional.

The PAR ships come fully maxed and equipped. You just need to hit the PAR Equip hotkey once you buy them to mount the built in weapons. I need to port the instructions from SRM... more work!

All these issues will be sorted Monday.

paulwheeler · Post by **paulwheeler** » Sat, 16. Jul 11, 21:26

Bany wrote:What about Pirate Guild and Yaki mods, are they compatible and/or logicaly ok with XRM?

Pirate Guild and Yaki Armada should be fine.

joelR · Post by **joelR** » Sat, 16. Jul 11, 21:32

Whew this threads busy.

Anyhow paul and mizuchi, thanks for the info on civs. I will give the included jobs a go. You were convincing enough.

Good to hear you guys, along with litcube, decided to incorporate the vanilla rewrite. Does it differ from the .33b in litcubes thread?

djrygar · Post by **djrygar** » Sat, 16. Jul 11, 21:33

paulwheeler wrote: I do also believe there is a slight placebo effect going on. With the sheer amount going on in the game and not knowing what battles/trading etc. are going on at any one time, you can't possibly accurately measure

this

and you can measure it, actually glennmcd did that in and published results in mentioned Litcube's thread:

performance hit from civilian jobs is close to zero. No civ jobbs makes no sense at all. There are hard numbers to prove it, go and see what he came up with, its pretty interesting.

also, in IR 15.28 I will come with some clever feature that will improve OOS battles behaviour. I have an idea how to make OOS ships be aware that they are been attacked BEFORE actual attack happens. This will massively increase trader's survival rate and be real economy fixer

mr.WHO · Post by **mr.WHO** » Sat, 16. Jul 11, 21:35

I found the diffrence between Nexus and Sentinel...
... and i found another bug

Nexus has 8 forward weapon slots, but only 4 can be mounted (other 4 somehow don't exist, they are visible but cannon mount anything).

Anyway Nexus is more like gunboat (CIG on most turrets), while Sentinel is more like AA ship.

paulwheeler · Post by **paulwheeler** » Sat, 16. Jul 11, 21:38

mr.WHO wrote:I found the diffrence between Nexus and Sentinel...
... and i found another bug

Nexus has 8 forward weapon slots, but only 4 can be mounted (other 4 somehow don't exist, they are visible but cannon mount anything).

Anyway Nexus is more like gunboat (CIG on most turrets), while Sentinel is more like AA ship.

Hmm.... that was a bug in the SRM a while ago and was fixed. Ill check it.

mr.WHO · Post by **mr.WHO** » Sat, 16. Jul 11, 22:23

Another bug - Pirate shipyard in Mi ton's refuge doesn't sell anything.

NOValdemar · Post by **NOValdemar** » Sat, 16. Jul 11, 23:01

Not really a major bug but Xenon Relay 418 has a --North-- Gate that probably should be a --South-- gate. It is located in the south of the sector and connected to the north gate of Preacher's Refuge.

EDIT: there is also a shipyard problem in Saiien III - Doesnt sell anything and Betty treats it as being a USC shipyard but i believe it is an commonwealth type shipyard.

DevilishMoney · Post by **DevilishMoney** » Sat, 16. Jul 11, 23:20

I would like to use MBRR + Pirate Guild and Yaki Armada,will this be ok.

Or would it be better to use Improved races/chaos.

Mizuchi · Post by **Mizuchi** » Sat, 16. Jul 11, 23:23

mr.WHO wrote:Another bug found:
BTW would it be possible to have X2 carriers to have launch ports (like small number 1 or 2 ports) for fighters, coz same port for landing & launching don't work well, even in X2.

Probably have to ask Killerog about that one. Most people [citation needed] don't seem to like X2 ships at all (beyond seeing them explode), so it's one of those "not really essential due to unpopularity" deals, I think.

mr.WHO wrote:BTW-2 Doesn't X2 M2 supose to be weaker than modern designs? Coz for me personnaly they are only a bit weaker than modern M2 and because they are smaller, they are actually easier to evade fire.

They're more on par with a Light Light Destroyer than an M7+, I think. I mean they're only supposed to be... what? 50 years old, or something?

The size issue isn't a perk of the game but a quirk of the model size. They're not supposed to be that small, but it's a lot of work to resize them and then re-position all the turrets and stuff.

I don't know how to do it, and Paul has a lot of other work to deal with before he would even consider it - and even then I think it'd fall into the "is it really essential?" category again.

I'm all for perfection and completion, personally; but I also don't sweat the small stuff. I just like seeing them around... in small doses.

mr.WHO wrote:Other Ship Stuff

I'm not personally a fan of Mechanis's pirate ships (although I really like his new Boron M2- design), and the other ships are pretty basic designs.

And as there are only a few names left to be used for Commonwealth ships, I think it's likely better to save those for special "omg wow" ships, rather than "add this ship because it's there" ideas.

But that's Paul's domain and certainly not mine.

NOValdemar wrote:Not really a major bug but Xenon Relay 418 has a --North-- Gate that probably should be a --South-- gate. It is located in the south of the sector and connected to the north gate of Preacher's Refuge.

Well, that's weird. I'll fix it, but it'll require a new game to see the change (which is a pain).

NOValdemar wrote:there is also a shipyard problem in Saiien III - Doesnt sell anything and Betty treats it as being a USC shipyard but i believe it is an commonwealth type shipyard.

That's not a bug (treating it as a USC Shipyard, that is): the Pirate Shipyard dock is Egosoft's own. For some reason, they decided that the description should be that of the USC Shipyard.

I don't know what the deal was there (maybe it was an idea that they scrapped?) but I'll get that replaced with an actual description next update.

DevilishMoney wrote:I would like to use MBRR + Pirate Guild and Yaki Armada,will this be ok. Or would it be better to use Improved races/chaos?

Between the two, I'd personally opt for going with Improved Races. It's easier to manage.

MBRR hasn't been updated in quite a while now either, and has a few bugs attached to it (like many, many, many, Rearguard Ship conventions) that can make it a game breaker.

I also feel it went beyond its scope with the invasions thing. I don't like the way they're handled (when they work). Which is a shame, because it was excellent.

DevilishMoney · Post by **DevilishMoney** » Sat, 16. Jul 11, 23:31

Thanks for that.

May I ask what is wrong with MBRR invasions, does it not work , or works in a strange way.

Mizuchi · Post by **Mizuchi** » Sat, 16. Jul 11, 23:48

DevilishMoney wrote:May I ask what is wrong with MBRR invasions, does it not work , or works in a strange way.

Well, I didn't like how it handled them: it'd often be a lone ship named "Boron Admiral" or something, and they'd pretty much take over all the undefended Pirate and Unknown Sectors right off the mark... which had the added detrimental effect of pretty much crippling the Pirate presence (which, in Vanilla, wasn't much to begin with), and denying the player access to Unknown Sectors later on in their game.

Personally though, I seemed to have a conflict which caused MBRR to either NEVER launch an invasion, or launch about thirty of them all at the same time.

If you're set on using the Pirate Guild III and Yaki Armada Mods, though, LV's "Race Reponse Fleets" would be a good substitute for MBRR.

(You could use them both with IR as well, but... IR handles those on its own, and better, I think.)

DevilishMoney · Post by **DevilishMoney** » Sun, 17. Jul 11, 00:05

I think I go for one of the Improved Race Mods.

Thanks for your help.

mr.WHO · Post by **mr.WHO** » Sun, 17. Jul 11, 00:57

They're more on par with a Light Light Destroyer than an M7+, I think. I mean they're only supposed to be... what? 50 years old, or something?

The size issue isn't a perk of the game but a quirk of the model size. They're not supposed to be that small, but it's a lot of work to resize them and then re-position all the turrets and stuff.

If you compare WW2 Iowa class with modern LCS (lightest US warship), Iowa will have it's ass beaten. With last refits before scrapping Iowa might stand a chance against missile destroyer, but still she was more like coast bombardment ship rather than warship.

About problems with resize - you got me wrong, I don't want them to be resized, plotwise their size is good, their (old M2) stats are what bothers me. They are too powerful for their age.

A proper example of new-old ballance is Collossus vs. Collossus mk.1
Modern one has 6GJ shields, 60 hangar and more turrets, while old one has 4GJ shields, 40 hangar and less turrets.

I think that 20-30% weaker shields, armor and laser generator would be a good way to make them feel old. 50% weaker shield and laser (re) generators would be also proper due to their older power grid that would have a problem with modern shields and weapons. bit weaker engines and turn rate and here we are - we have an old ship that is good for short combat or secondary patrol duties, but would have it's ass beaten in prolonged combat with modern M7+ or modern light destroyer.

I'm not personally a fan of Mechanis's pirate ships (although I really like his new Boron M2- design), and the other ships are pretty basic designs.

And as there are only a few names left to be used for Commonwealth ships, I think it's likely better to save those for special "omg wow" ships, rather than "add this ship because it's there" ideas.

I think that his Yaki ships (like M3) might be good - I'm not a fan of Purple Paranid ships as Yaki. Plus his other Yaki ships (M4 and M5) might be good OTAS ships (OTAS Eurus need a new modes as vanilla one has been move to Notus and XRM Eurus is just argon Elite model).

Anyway, who said that we have to have all names read by betty?

Also Mechanis M1M class might be good for M0 as right now Valhalla is a some member of this class.

Mizuchi · Post by **Mizuchi** » Sun, 17. Jul 11, 01:21

mr.WHO wrote:Anyway, who said that we have to have all names read by Betty?

Well, that's been an important part of SRM for as long as Paul has been running the show. It'd be a shame (and pretty jarring) for that trend to end.

I don't think I'd have liked SRM as much if everything hadn't been spoken, and then you would never have ended up with the XRM. :3

DevilishMoney · Post by **DevilishMoney** » Sun, 17. Jul 11, 01:33

One last question what would be better to use Improved Races or chaos edition.

Also can I use TOA to Jump Gate Converter v1.3 (TRP) by eldyranx3

Sn4kemaster · Post by **Sn4kemaster** » Sun, 17. Jul 11, 01:37

You now, my head is spinning due to the amount of changes Mr Wheeler and Mr Mizuchi have done.........

Its all good stuff though, well done guys!

Noticed that Khaak cap ships tend to only come armed with Alpha Kyon Emitters.......which is not very threatening lol!

Maybe the solution is to just give Khaak cap ships Gamma Kyon only!!, Khaak Frigates and Corvettes Beta and just give the khaak fighters Alpha etc.....then they would spawn correctly armed!

But overall excellent stuff........

Edit....as above i was also going to ask which is better to use with XRM? standard IR or the Chaos version?

killerog · Post by **killerog** » Sun, 17. Jul 11, 01:57

About the X2 ships. The docking was included for a few versions of my mod then for some reason the scene files with the docking disappeared and were replaced with older ones. So I have to redo it.

Part of my X2 callback Mk2 V2 is to re add docking, enlarge capital ships to X3 sizes and redo textures/parts of the models. This is the next thing on my list to do after I have my BSG mod stable and working.

I am in no real rush as a large number of people seem to not want them ( I don't really like many of the look of many of them hence the new mod aiming to improve that). It is also a hell of a lot of work, I am remodeling/texturing and recreating the scene files while making some custom textures for every single ship in X2. Not a quick task.