[AP] Shadow missile nerfed?

[ohestnes]

Did they nerf the shadow missile by a factor of about 12, going from 8x750k damage to 1x450k ? That's is what my encyclopedia says and also seems to be what I'm seeing in game

[kurush]

They did and we are lucky they didn't forget about it when making M7M ships actually work for AI. Otherwise, a single skirniir would wipe out all argon without even a need to reload missiles

[ohestnes]

Awww man! Can't say it isn't more balanced, but it is a whole lot less fun The Skirnir is a bit like the Aquilo now then, pretty pointless to own by the player since its damage potential isn't much different than any other M7M and it can't fire pods. Not to mention the difficulty obtaining ghouls. Oh well ....

[Axeface]

I was going to post a rant earlier as I jumped into a terran sector and instantly got barraged by these things. They go at 300 m/s, theres dozens, if not hundreds of them, and a ray with FAA's and CFA's all over could not hit them. And each one did about 10% damage to my shields and hull.

Instant death, they need more nerfing please.

[Raize]

Thankfully yes.

[AL'42]

OP: But have you seen the rate at which you can pump them out !! As fast as your missile fire button can be pressed, not to mention the barrage !! Can still obliterate most targets in seconds.

My big problem is friendly fire, most of the time I hit a war sector with my Skirnir, I get a few Terran capitals going red on me and have to leave, dunno what’s going on…. just as well they got nerfed otherwise they’d wipe out the entire sector of friends and foes alike.

[Gazz]

It wasn't really a nerf but the correction of a typo. It wasn't intended for a single small missile to do 6 million points of damage.

Then it was decided to make it a regular missile, not swarm, to reduce the general missile spam, which is bad enough as is. =)

The Shadow is a good torpedo. It's just no longer 10x as good as anything else in the universe.

[AshToDust]

I was going to post a rant earlier as I jumped into a terran sector and instantly got barraged by these things. They go at 300 m/s, theres dozens, if not hundreds of them, and a ray with FAA's and CFA's all over could not hit them. And each one did about 10% damage to my shields and hull.

Instant death, they need more nerfing please.

do you mean you did a blind jump and paid heavily for it?

Damn, X3 is almost a realistic simulator then

Scout, man, scout!!! You know, the bunch of M5 you re using to scout the sector you re in. And the bunch of fast M4 with jumpdrive and cargo max out to carry 20 mosquitos and lot of energy cells to scout target sector before jumping in? You DID heard about them, didn t you?

[AL'42]

Scout, man, scout!!! You know, the bunch of M5 you re using to scout the sector you re in. And the bunch of fast M4 with jumpdrive and cargo max out to carry 20 mosquitos and lot of energy cells to scout target sector before jumping in? You DID heard about them, didn t you?

Even better is the recon drone, amazing piece of engineering !

Built in triplex scanner and explorer software, 650 m/s, long lifetime, send it into an enemy sector on map command, half the enemies go off chasing it, nothing can catch it, checks gates in seconds, fast re-issue of commands on notification. Eject and forget

[Lelouch]

It wasn't really a nerf but the correction of a typo. It wasn't intended for a single small missile to do 6 million points of damage.

Damn. Owning a Skirnir felt like the space-equivalent of owning the nuke. A fully loaded Skirnir instills fear. Not by actually going all out, but just the presence is enough to make someone think twice.

(Actually it didn't because the computer doesn't know how to use M7M/M8 properly in TC. But at least let me pretend everyone's cowering in fear if I take it out for a spin. ;) - Which even in it's 'working' state still happens so seldom I actually forgot its name. The Kraken (Mostly Harmless) and the Scirocco (Peaceful Liberator) get way more mileage.)

P.S.: Are Ghoul fabs buildable in X3AP? That was one of the main reasons I didn't use the Skirnir much apart from the availability of suitable sized enemy fleet convoys (read: practice targets).

[Axeface]

No it wasnt like that at all, I had time to prepare (about 30 seconds ). I've taken on many a claymore (4 at once one time) and other M7M's and I know how to fight them, this thing cannot be fought.

I did everything right. I jumped in and when I saw the skirnir I turned about to get my CFA's and FFA's a firing angle, mosquito defence was firing like a maniac, CFA's and FFA's all on target, yet I only saw 1 shadow go pop....
It gives the ATF an edge which I like, they are supposed to be very advanced. Just wish it wasnt only their m7m.

[Gazz]

P.S.: Are Ghoul fabs buildable in X3AP?

No. Neither are MAM ammo or Spectre fabs. (sux to be terran!)
"Factories" for them exist ingame but I was told they were not intended for player use. I never found out what that means.
If you only add a dummy node to the relevant scenes, you can script those factories into the shipyards and use them normally. Must be a philosophical issue.

[Sovereign01]

It wasn't really a nerf but the correction of a typo. It wasn't intended for a single small missile to do 6 million points of damage.

Then it was decided to make it a regular missile, not swarm, to reduce the general missile spam, which is bad enough as is. =)

The Shadow is a good torpedo. It's just no longer 10x as good as anything else in the universe.

More like 20x

[Gazz]

Maybe, but after a certain point it doesn't matter any more. The Shadow simply combined all possible positives in a super small / cheap / damaging / hard to hit (corkscrewing + multiple targets) missile.
So it was changed.

I have a feeling there will be more to drool and/or cry about when 1.1 rolls out. =P

[Sovereign01]

No it wasnt like that at all, I had time to prepare (about 30 seconds ). I've taken on many a claymore (4 at once one time) and other M7M's and I know how to fight them, this thing cannot be fought.

I did everything right. I jumped in and when I saw the skirnir I turned about to get my CFA's and FFA's a firing angle, mosquito defence was firing like a maniac, CFA's and FFA's all on target, yet I only saw 1 shadow go pop....
It gives the ATF an edge which I like, they are supposed to be very advanced. Just wish it wasnt only their m7m.

I always thought the sheer awesomeness of the Shadow's contribution to the SKirnir was balanced by the inability to buy Ghoul fabs as well as not being able to fire pods- since the ship is clearly designed to destroy ships instead of capturing them, it makes sense that you couldn't use boarding pods.

And it also makes boarding a Skirnir more of an achievement when those things are flying. It's lucky that the ships turrets can only fire aft, giving you plenty of room to use the missile trick since you know they'll all hit their target

[Sovereign01]

Maybe, but after a certain point it doesn't matter any more. The Shadow simply combined all possible positives in a super small / cheap / damaging / hard to hit (corkscrewing + multiple targets) missile.
So it was changed.

I have a feeling there will be more to drool and/or cry about when 1.1 rolls out. =P

If it includes the hub, you can bet on it

[Lelouch]

I can live without M/AML-Warheads and Spectre-Missiles-Fabs not being buyable. Never had problems buying M/AML-Warheads and I'm not much into missiles.

Although it would have been really nice to be able to buy all three fabs. (And maybe Ice-Mines to? Puhliiiiis?) ... or somehow keep the terran economy from self-crippling. [Either of these would be fine to me.[1]]

What is the reason for this issue anyway? IIRC Terrans were the first ones to be able to sell L-sizes Crystal-Fabs (YAY! NICE!), but were missing either L1 or L2 Food-Fabs (DOH DOH DOH /facepalm). Smells a bit like a premature release due to approaching/missed deadline. Or is it really by design? Then please flog the dude who is responsible for this decision.


[1] Making these factories _not_ player-buyable, but keeping the ware from permanently disappearing may have turned out to be a real cool feature. At least if you're into carefully nurturing a cpu-controlled economy into a flourishing trade-empire. Need more Spectre/Ghoul/Shadow-Missile Fabs? Improve the terran trading network and GOD will set them up for you. Angered the terrans by stealing too many Atmos? Good bye. Have fun with your remaining stock...

[Lelouch]

Maybe, but after a certain point it doesn't matter any more. The Shadow simply combined all possible positives in a super small / cheap / damaging / hard to hit (corkscrewing + multiple targets) missile.
So it was changed.

You forgot to mention:
- easily acquireable and mass-produceable after a certain point
- fired by a weapon platform that in itself is way more powerful then all the others (at least in a pure combat role)

Or to put it differently: The Skirnir was probably just misclassified. Given it's potential damage output it shouldn't have been M7M, but M0. ;)

I approve of changing the overall effectiveness. However now the Shadow seems to be not much more then a Hammer Heavy Torpedo with a different name. Other options may have been changing the cargo-size of the missile and/or the Skirnir, making the Skirnir a lot less powerful, make every warhead deal 1/8th the damage, dramatically increase the pricetag...

I guess some of these have already come up and were disfavoured with good reason. It would be interesting to me to have an insight into this discussion.

P.S.: Has the Wraith been changed too? Is the Medusa Prototype still able to fire Typhoon/Firestorm?

P.P.S.: Lame pun: The shadow is now a weak shadow of its former self.

[Sovereign01]

Since corp missions are now redundant, can the Med. Prot. be acquired anywhere? Same goes for the Enh. Kea. The Venti is now buyable at OTAS HQ at least, what about the other reward ships?

EDIT: And the Shadow also took up slightly less cargo space than the Hammer did