[MOD] [TC/AP] X3 Rebalance Mod (XRM) - Total conversion - v1.30d (02.12.13)

[paulwheeler]

I have spent alot of my time in terran space and like twice I have run into an ATF mapping service mammoth. I remember reading about issues like this but that sounded like it meant a bunch of files were messed up but for me its only been happening in this one case.

The mapping service ships are vanilla mission ships. At some stage ill have a look at the main files and try and sort out why they are spawning with incorrect ships.

[paulwheeler]

Paul, will you consider changing TM's ware transport class into XXL?
Well, in my opinions, a military transporter should be able to transport all kind of weapon, missile, ammunition, device, and military stuff.

The XXL class was specifically created to mask certain wares and weapons from non-capital ships. So giving non-capital ships this cargo compatibility defeats the object. For example, TMs would be able to use the military scanner which was specifically intended to be capital class only.

[d_ka]

Hm, but the "Superfrighter" class ships still can use the military scanner due to their XXL size cargo bay

Concerning TM´s: In the description, they are ment to "escort" convoys; i, actually, do understand, that´s the fighters on board they carry to counter the agression, but aside from Yaki Chokaro ( the advance one is actually "weaker" stat wise! ), are actually quite underpowerd concerning the laser reload rate, imho.
On the other side, the Superfrighters ( those with XXL cargo bay ) are much better shielded ( 5x200 at max. vs. 3x200, iirc ).
Concerning OOS: i had a funny accident last night. My OTAS Astreus, defended by a Teladi Ospray, were fighting a Xenon PX and 3 L´s, and while the shields of PX went down almost instantly, my both ships got annyhilated in the process... The weapon setup was quite heavy for both of my ships, but how the heck have those pesky robots managed to take out one of the strongest Argon M7? ( FYI: i´ve disabled "kill enemy" command on all of my ships, instead givin all turrets specific orders + i´m using the "high hull package" right now ).

Edit: Oh, and i´ve noticed a glitch, i gutess. While trying to equip some M6´s rear turrets, one of the 2 slots gets "cleared" ( by script? ), leading to a single weapon in a turret capable of maintaining 2 of them.

[paulwheeler]

Edit: Oh, and i´ve noticed a glitch, i gutess. While trying to equip some M6´s rear turrets, one of the 2 slots gets "cleared" ( by script? ), leading to a single weapon in a turret capable of maintaining 2 of them.

This can be caused by a script that enables weapon switching, like mars or (the weapon switching enabled version) missile defence mk2. It is not the xrm causing it.

[A5PECT]

Also, that usually means the weapon switching script is working properly.

As long as the guns are automatically installed when the turret acquires a target then there's nothing to worry about.

[jiunejai]

Paul, will you consider changing TM's ware transport class into XXL?
Well, in my opinions, a military transporter should be able to transport all kind of weapon, missile, ammunition, device, and military stuff.

The XXL class was specifically created to mask certain wares and weapons from non-capital ships. So giving non-capital ships this cargo compatibility defeats the object. For example, TMs would be able to use the military scanner which was specifically intended to be capital class only.

So in your definition, Triplex Scanner is a device only for capital ship?
But, as d_ka said, "SF XL" class TS and "Explorer" class M5 which can use Triplex Scanner have been here.
This means "Triplex Scanner" isn't actually a capital class only device.

Now we consider the competitiveness ( or function? ) between TM and prototype TS:

1. Price: TM's price is 5~6 times compared with TS.
2. Cargo Space: TM's CS is 1/2~1/4 compared with TS, but has 4~8 fighter hanger.
3. Shield: TM's shield is 2~3 times compared with TS, but power generator are almost equal ( Yeah, TM has much powerful generator but it's still meaning less in OOS combat. ).
4. Weapon System: Who really care about this with transporter?
5. Maneuverability: TM has better maneuverability, but not much.

And then we think about the ship choose for different purpose:

1. Ware transport: Of course TS.

2. Supply: TS win again.

3. Escort: Well, in my opinions, they are the target that needed escort. Maybe someone will say TM can hang some fighter to done escort mission. But I want to ask, why not directly command fighter to escort. In the game, unfortunately, there isn't a command can let fighter, docking on TM, defence when attacker incoming and then dock back again. ( Maybe someone can script one so that TM will be useful in escort.)

4. Fighter transport: Of course TM since XRM turn JD into XL, fighter can no longer use JD. TM will become a shortest way to transport fighter in long range travel. But in which situation one will transport fighter by TM?

• a. Deliver Ship Mission: Ya, it can, but not must to. I notice that the reward of DS-mission will increased ( profit only, I mean after deducting cost ) base on engine tuning of ship I sent. So I can simply buy the ship with full ET in near shipyard, sent to destination, then count the several times-up profit.

• b. Reinforce Battlefield: M1 is a better choose. Before I have M1, I don't think I have enough fund to support a huge battle like that.

Based on the above several points, TM will Never ever be my choose except "A New Home" plot.

So, in order to increase the value of TM, giving a XXL transport class is comely.

-------------------------

BTW, What is Recon Drone's purpose?

[deca.death]

So in your definition, Triplex Scanner is a device only for capital ship?
But, as d_ka said, "SF XL" class TS and "Explorer" class M5 which can use Triplex Scanner have been here.
This means "Triplex Scanner" isn't actually a capital class only device.

It's a capital class, with several exceptions.
SF XL cargo vessels simply have to carry XXL cargo because of economic issues. There are cargo/selling goods of that size. Besides SF XL vessels are much more serious ships then vanilla versions. They mount FLAKs and have 5x200Mj shields as standard. So they are hardly small or cheap ships in any aspect.

Explorer M5 is basically built around military scanner. Hence such steep price - almost like an M3.

If you give TM a mil. scanner, M6 should get it too. Where does it end then? It's not just "give us a scanner" thing, you upset balance on wide scale with those decisions.

[jiunejai]

If you give TM a mil. scanner, M6 should get it too. Where does it end then? It's not just "give us a scanner" thing, you upset balance on wide scale with those decisions.

I got it.
Is it hard to increase 1 more level in WTC?
If it isn't, how about add CL between XXL and ST for some capital class equipment?

[Gavrushka]

I think the thing to bear in mind with XRM, is that there will always be questions asked of whether the balance is right, there was with the original SRM, even back in 'someone elses' day. - We'll all ask for our take on things, make our point as well as we can present it, but will usually be knocked back, after it is explained why it is not feasible.

Still, I've yet to hear a valid argument against my suggestion that their should be a statue erected to me, Gavrushka and an image of it should be displayed as the game loads, accompanied by rousing music and cheers that echo across the galaxy.

But to summarise, I'm against any new ware classes and I don't like celery.

[deca.death]

I got it.
Is it hard to increase 1 more level in WTC?
If it isn't, how about add CL between XXL and ST for some capital class equipment?

I doubt paul would ever agree to this fairly major change that influences many of other game aspects.

But you could always and fairly simple change ware cargo class, many of us have modified t.ware file with some minor tweaks to fit our game styles better - it's completely agreeable way of tailoring your game. You'll find instructions in FAQ I believe, in first post of this gargantuan thread.

[Mizuchi]

Still, I've yet to hear a valid argument against my suggestion that their should be a statue erected to me, Gavrushka and an image of it should be displayed as the game loads, accompanied by rousing music and cheers that echo across the galaxy.

I wanted to rebuke this just to be contrary, but I find myself unable to do so due to how awesome the idea is.

Well played, sir. Well played.

[Iceciro]

So, with the XRM decision to remove lasers from all the ships, are there any plans on what to do with say, the Ion Cannons? That's a pretty boron-defining weapon, and without it some of their ship loadouts look quite anemic.

Even if you just have to upscale some of the boron guns like the ID/IPG to capital level, they need some sort of high level weapon back.

[paulwheeler]

So, with the XRM decision to remove lasers from all the ships, are there any plans on what to do with say, the Ion Cannons? That's a pretty boron-defining weapon, and without it some of their ship loadouts look quite anemic.

Even if you just have to upscale some of the boron guns like the ID/IPG to capital level, they need some sort of high level weapon back.

Huh? I've not removed any weapons... Look at my sig - thats an XRM Ion Cannon firing.

The Ion Cannons are still there and are very powerful when used in certain roles. They do more shield damage than any other weapon in the game, plus they drain an enemy's laser energy and drop its speed.

If you are not seeing Ion Cannons in your game then something is very wrong with your installation...

[nap_rz]

is the war script designed to be stalemate without player intervention? in my game the war has been running in circles forever...

can you script main terran forces to invade argon prime or light of heart directly with jumpdrive? and on the contrary make the argon to send M1 & 2, in my game the heaviest they sent were cyclops

btw verdandi sentinel model looks awesome

[paulwheeler]

is the war script designed to be stalemate without player intervention? in my game the war has been running in circles forever...

can you script main terran forces to invade argon prime or light of heart directly with jumpdrive? and on the contrary make the argon to send M1 & 2, in my game the heaviest they sent were cyclops

btw verdandi sentinel model looks awesome

The XRM war needs RRF working. You need to reinstall the old AP 1.1 scripts.

Once RRF is active the Argon will send heavier ships to defend their sectors, plus there are two M2s and an M7C on sector defence in Circle of Labour and an M1 in Omycron Lyrae.

Why would the Terrans send their invasion fleet to Argon prime, when their goal is to build a buffer zone between them and the commonwealth sectors...Their goal is the defence of their space, not genocide...

[nap_rz]

is the war script designed to be stalemate without player intervention? in my game the war has been running in circles forever...

can you script main terran forces to invade argon prime or light of heart directly with jumpdrive? and on the contrary make the argon to send M1 & 2, in my game the heaviest they sent were cyclops

btw verdandi sentinel model looks awesome

The XRM war needs RRF working. You need to reinstall the old AP 1.1 scripts.

Once RRF is active the Argon will send heavier ships to defend their sectors, plus there are two M2s and an M7C on sector defence in Circle of Labour and an M1 in Omycron Lyrae.

Why would the Terrans send their invasion fleet to Argon prime, when their goal is to build a buffer zone between them and the commonwealth sectors...Their goal is the defence of their space, not genocide...

I mean make argon send atlas and titan to jupiter mars etc... not just for defending their sector... and so it's true that the war will be stalemate unless the player intervene?

[d_ka]

@jiunejai: i might be wrong, but if you order a ship to "defend" a "carrier" it normaly undocks, fights, and docks back, when finished. This is at least the case when i used my Astraeus + Osprey. The only problem i used to have in "vanilla" was, while ordering fighters ( those without JD ability ) to guard the TM the last couldn´t jump together with the fighters. Ergo: one had to disable the "defend" command, jump, and inable it again, which is too much of micromanagement for my tastings when it comes to some "split second" decissions.
What do the TM´s have weapons for? They even can sometimes carry quite strong ones in XRM ( CIG class ). But the shielding is way too low for a ship, which is classified as "military" transport ( normaly carrying somethinig really valueable ).
Imho, it should be one of the TM´s primary role to supply other ships with weapons; but while all M6 can jump and dock to any station in the universe, the bigger ships can´t - and while trying to reinforce them with XXL class weapons ( or the Firestorm Torpedos, i.e ), you have to use a Superfrighter TS. Why?
Concerning the figher transports, i actually prefer to send a M7 with hangars. Most of them are quite fast, well shielded, and some of them can even be additionaly guarded by a docked M6 korvette. So, the only argument toward TM ships are their low costs ( at least it appears so ), but when you take into account all the extensions ( JDs, software, upgrades ) you might spend about 5-7 milions on that ship, and then loose it to a bunch of random pirate party, or, even better, to a Xenon patrol, even without getting the message in time that your ship is beeing attacked ( to quick kill due to low shields, i´d say ). Oh, and the 3-4 fighters on board would die instantly, too, which might cost you another 9-20 milions. In summary, you get at max. about 30 milions lost - hardly an expence you would be ready to except in the earlier stages of the game, when you, apparently can´t afford a decent M7...

Don´t get me wrong, i really enjoy the changes that have been made to the game - now combat is thrilling and challenging ( though, OOS thing starts to trouble me , but this is not the issue of XRM as such, it was persent in vanilla too, though, when sending a Cerberus to fight Xenon korvettes and fighers, i could rely on the "win", if not swarmed by too many of them ).

[paulwheeler]

is the war script designed to be stalemate without player intervention? in my game the war has been running in circles forever...

can you script main terran forces to invade argon prime or light of heart directly with jumpdrive? and on the contrary make the argon to send M1 & 2, in my game the heaviest they sent were cyclops

btw verdandi sentinel model looks awesome

The XRM war needs RRF working. You need to reinstall the old AP 1.1 scripts.

Once RRF is active the Argon will send heavier ships to defend their sectors, plus there are two M2s and an M7C on sector defence in Circle of Labour and an M1 in Omycron Lyrae.

Why would the Terrans send their invasion fleet to Argon prime, when their goal is to build a buffer zone between them and the commonwealth sectors...Their goal is the defence of their space, not genocide...

I mean make argon send atlas and titan to jupiter mars etc... not just for defending their sector... and so it's true that the war will be stalemate unless the player intervene?

The Argons main goal is the defence of their territory, so diverting their big guns from this task is not in their plans at the moment. I may look at possibly extending the offensive actions of the Argons, but for the moment its limited to M7s.

If the player does not intervene, the war will progress until the argons destroy the terran command ship. Then the main invasion will stop until the terran fleet rebuilds, but the smaller incursions by each opposing force will continue.

This is deliberate so that the player can get involved in the war whenever they want to. Otherwise it would be disappointing if you finally decide to take part in the war, just to discover the Argons had already won.

[paulwheeler]

@jiunejai: i might be wrong, but if you order a ship to "defend" a "carrier" it normaly undocks, fights, and docks back, when finished. This is at least the case when i used my Astraeus + Osprey. The only problem i used to have in "vanilla" was, while ordering fighters ( those without JD ability ) to guard the TM the last couldn´t jump together with the fighters. Ergo: one had to disable the "defend" command, jump, and inable it again, which is too much of micromanagement for my tastings when it comes to some "split second" decissions.
What do the TM´s have weapons for? They even can sometimes carry quite strong ones in XRM ( CIG class ). But the shielding is way too low for a ship, which is classified as "military" transport ( normaly carrying somethinig really valueable ).
Imho, it should be one of the TM´s primary role to supply other ships with weapons; but while all M6 can jump and dock to any station in the universe, the bigger ships can´t - and while trying to reinforce them with XXL class weapons ( or the Firestorm Torpedos, i.e ), you have to use a Superfrighter TS. Why?
Concerning the figher transports, i actually prefer to send a M7 with hangars. Most of them are quite fast, well shielded, and some of them can even be additionaly guarded by a docked M6 korvette. So, the only argument toward TM ships are their low costs ( at least it appears so ), but when you take into account all the extensions ( JDs, software, upgrades ) you might spend about 5-7 milions on that ship, and then loose it to a bunch of random pirate party, or, even better, to a Xenon patrol, even without getting the message in time that your ship is beeing attacked ( to quick kill due to low shields, i´d say ). Oh, and the 3-4 fighters on board would die instantly, too, which might cost you another 9-20 milions. In summary, you get at max. about 30 milions lost - hardly an expence you would be ready to except in the earlier stages of the game, when you, apparently can´t afford a decent M7...

Don´t get me wrong, i really enjoy the changes that have been made to the game - now combat is thrilling and challenging ( though, OOS thing starts to trouble me , but this is not the issue of XRM as such, it was persent in vanilla too, though, when sending a Cerberus to fight Xenon korvettes and fighers, i could rely on the "win", if not swarmed by too many of them ).

The TM really is a mini carrier. You have to consider price when you look at balance. The TM is really cheap and is great for a player when just starting out to buy one to jump their fighter around the universe. It should be kept out of harms way. It is not in any way meant to compete with an M6 or M7. It would take you way more money to outfit an M6 or M7.

[d_ka]

Got it, Paul.
But then there is no actual military "supply" ship, swift, small ( 1k? ) cargo, XXL size, to deliver the capital ship weapons, right? TS Superfrighters are slow and a sitting duck ( i mostly put a MK3 dealer on board to enable an auto "jump out" if it gets dangerous ). Also, imo, it´s a waste to use them this way, not utilizing the rest of what, 10k? cargo. Of course, you can supply the cap ships with e-cells by the way, but there is not a specified purpose of military supply transports.

What i´m trying to say is: i think there is a small gap in ship classes with the specifications of a "Military Supply Transport". One could simly adjust the price accordingly ( 5 millons/10 with ecuipment + upgrades? ) and "taylor" the original TM class to such needs, i think. No need for more then 1 docking place, if at all, but strong shields, decent speed, and a small laser reload rate boost, perhaps, would suffice. That way one could give a player a comfortable tool for dayly work while equiping his fleet. I personaly hate it to imploy too many ships, because from a certain amount of them the ship list becomes quite destractive.