[MOD] [TC/AP] X3 Rebalance Mod (XRM) - Total conversion - v1.30d (02.12.13)

[swatti]

Umm... It says 4 shots / min in my FBC description. Something gone wrong with my install?

[paulwheeler]

The FBC does 4 shots per min.

Nap_rz's point is that the in-game stats already take fire rate into account (hence damage-per-second as opposed to damage-per-shot), so you can't multiply it by the fire rate again like you did. That gives you a meaningless number.

The FBC is the most damaging beam weapon in the game, except for the Gamma Kyon and the laser tower weapon - it does a lot more damage than the PBC. It also has a bigger range and the instant-hit ability of beams. The downside is its long fire duration and slow refire rate.

Remember beams do damage over the entire duration of the beam so must be kept on-target throughout the firing duration to do the max amount of damage.


FYI - To convert the in-game damage per second into damage per shot - Multiple the stat by 60 to get damage per minute, then divide by fire rate as fire rate is shots per minute.

[Scoob]

Hi Paul,

Been playing around with Argon M6's equipped with PRGs in their turrets and sending them off vs. fighter wings. However they are proving largely ineffective. The PRG shots are very fast so should be able to hit all but the most nimble of enemy fighters however 80% of the time they miss.

When tracking a target with the F3 camera view you can cleaerly see shots that should connect just fly through the target. I wonder if the hit box needs widening a little for the PRG shots?

Note: I get this when paying at 60fps so it's not a performance issue.

As the PRG is the Argon fighter / anti-fighter weapon of choice for ships that cannot mount flaks, vessels using it really struggle to be effective. Conversely Terran ships using EMPC's in their turrets (I have a few of these as well) prove far far more effective vs. fighters despite the slower speed.

As a comparison, flying my Vidar with two EMPC's top and two at the bottom will score more turret fighter kills when engaging a Wing than the PRG-equipped turrets on one of my Centaur Sentinels - and they have EIGHT PRGs left and right as well as other turrets. Really, the Centaur Sentinel should totally own small groups of fighters.

My friend, who's also using Argon ships, states he has real problems hitting things when using PRGs in the front guns of his personal ship. His aim is on target of course, auto-aim makes that easy, but most of his shots miss.

So, an essay from me when I likely should have asked if you could possibly try widening the PRG hit box a little please?

Cheers,

Scoob.

[nap_rz]

The FBC does 4 shots per min.

Nap_rz's point is that the in-game stats already take fire rate into account (hence damage-per-second as opposed to damage-per-shot), so you can't multiply it by the fire rate again like you did. That gives you a meaningless number.

The FBC is the most damaging beam weapon in the game, except for the Gamma Kyon and the laser tower weapon - it does a lot more damage than the PBC. It also has a bigger range and the instant-hit ability of beams. The downside is its long fire duration and slow refire rate.

Remember beams do damage over the entire duration of the beam so must be kept on-target throughout the firing duration to do the max amount of damage.


FYI - To convert the in-game damage per second into damage per shot - Multiple the stat by 60 to get damage per minute, then divide by fire rate as fire rate is shots per minute.

FBC 4 shots/minute? hei you are right! the google document is wrong then... and the shield damage/bullet that FBC do is much higher than 54000 then...

somebody correct the google document

[joelR]

The FBC does 4 shots per min.

Nap_rz's point is that the in-game stats already take fire rate into account (hence damage-per-second as opposed to damage-per-shot), so you can't multiply it by the fire rate again like you did. That gives you a meaningless number.

The FBC is the most damaging beam weapon in the game, except for the Gamma Kyon and the laser tower weapon - it does a lot more damage than the PBC. It also has a bigger range and the instant-hit ability of beams. The downside is its long fire duration and slow refire rate.

Remember beams do damage over the entire duration of the beam so must be kept on-target throughout the firing duration to do the max amount of damage.


FYI - To convert the in-game damage per second into damage per shot - Multiple the stat by 60 to get damage per minute, then divide by fire rate as fire rate is shots per minute.

FBC 4 shots/minute? hei you are right! the google document is wrong then... and the shield damage/bullet that FBC do is much higher than 54000 then...

somebody correct the google document

Its a public document. Why don't you fix it?

[nap_rz]

The FBC does 4 shots per min.

Nap_rz's point is that the in-game stats already take fire rate into account (hence damage-per-second as opposed to damage-per-shot), so you can't multiply it by the fire rate again like you did. That gives you a meaningless number.

The FBC is the most damaging beam weapon in the game, except for the Gamma Kyon and the laser tower weapon - it does a lot more damage than the PBC. It also has a bigger range and the instant-hit ability of beams. The downside is its long fire duration and slow refire rate.

Remember beams do damage over the entire duration of the beam so must be kept on-target throughout the firing duration to do the max amount of damage.


FYI - To convert the in-game damage per second into damage per shot - Multiple the stat by 60 to get damage per minute, then divide by fire rate as fire rate is shots per minute.

FBC 4 shots/minute? hei you are right! the google document is wrong then... and the shield damage/bullet that FBC do is much higher than 54000 then...

somebody correct the google document

Its a public document. Why don't you fix it?

for starter, I don't know where to get the correct value that isn't displayed in the game

[paulwheeler]

IMPORTANT NOTE ABOUT THE BOUNTY SYSTEM
-----------------------------------------------------------


EDIT - THIS IS NOW ADDRESSED IN THE 1.18C RELEASE - SEE BELOW


I have just discovered a potential issue in certain unlikely situations.

Because of the X3 script engine's tendency to skip commands at high SETA rates, it is possible (although extrememly unlikely) that the integrity of the bounty data arrays can become compromised.

You'll know straight away if this has happened as you will see lots of bizarre bounty values. For instance, a Xenon K with a bounty of 50,000 credits, or a Pirate Discoverer with a bounty of 5mil. Basically, the ratings and the ship IDs are no longer matching.

It is extremely unlikely to occur, and it only happened to me today for the first time after several weeks thorough testing on SETA.

In 1.19 I will be adding a lot of integrity checks to the bounty scripts to hopefully stop, or at least minimise, the potential of this happening.

If you do suspect that something like this has happened to the bounty system, then simply turn the XRM Bounty System AL Plugin off and then on again to reset the arrays.


As Gazz said to me recently when I asked him how reliable the signal_killed is... "Nothing in X3 is ever completely reliable."

[hlking]

Hi Paul, I was just wondering if there are any plans to update the Advanced Universe Pack to work with the AP version? Searched the last 150 pages or so, but couldn't find an anwser to it.

Btw, I love the new bounty system, been waiting for this since i first started playing X3TC.

Cheers.

[paulwheeler]

Hi Paul, I was just wondering if there are any plans to update the Advanced Universe Pack to work with the AP version? Searched the last 150 pages or so, but couldn't find an anwser to it.

Btw, I love the new bounty system, been waiting for this since i first started playing X3TC.

Cheers.

Yes there are plans - I'm hoping to get it out after the 1.19 release.

[Litcube]

Because of the X3 script engine's tendency to skip commands at high SETA rates, it is possible (although extrememly unlikely) that the integrity of the bounty data arrays can become compromised.

For what it's worth, Paul, I've never experienced this with global data arrays. Phanon corp, entire assets are stored in massive complex arrays. From start to finish, everything is referenced, received, and stored inside that giant array. I have never, in 4 years, experienced or have heard reported, corrupt global data from SETA or anything else. This also goes for Revelation, dozens of other scripts I have, and CWP, which this mod uses. I suspect other problems with the script code.

Again, for what it's worth.

[paulwheeler]

Because of the X3 script engine's tendency to skip commands at high SETA rates, it is possible (although extrememly unlikely) that the integrity of the bounty data arrays can become compromised.

For what it's worth, Paul, I've never experienced this with global data arrays. Phanon corp, entire assets are stored in massive complex arrays. From start to finish, everything is referenced, received, and stored inside that giant array. I have never, in 4 years, experienced or have heard reported, corrupt global data from SETA or anything else. This also goes for Revelation, dozens of other scripts I have, and CWP, which this mod uses. I suspect other problems with the script code.

Again, for what it's worth.

I'm pretty certain its not an error in the code - Its actually an extremely simple (deliberately so) script, I've been over it with a fine toothed comb many times, and if it was a bug in the script, with the sheer number of Signal_Killeds being fired in an XRM game, it would be happening far more often than it does. It seems to only occur on sustained runs at SETA and as I said, its happened to me once in about a month of thorough testing. Its definitely the script engine not doing something its been told to do.

Anyway, it should be a sorted after my next update as I'm adding checks in so the scripts won't save the arrays unless the checks are passed.

[swatti]

Odd one:

OTAS Mistral super freigter has 5x200mj shields, same as Heavy Hydra M6+.
OTAS Mistral "normal" has only 5x25mj shields but more guns.

The normal is VERY fast etc and the guns make it look decent on paper BUT it has rather poor shield re-charge and weapon energy. in OOS it takes it up the pooper very fast.
Also like mentioned before, PRG has very poor hit-rate and argon ships rely on it much as an anti-fighter weapon. At close its a shredder, at max range useless.

[paulwheeler]

Odd one:

OTAS Mistral super freigter has 5x200mj shields, same as Heavy Hydra M6+.
OTAS Mistral "normal" has only 5x25mj shields but more guns.

The normal is VERY fast etc and the guns make it look decent on paper BUT it has rather poor shield re-charge and weapon energy. in OOS it takes it up the pooper very fast.
Also like mentioned before, PRG has very poor hit-rate and argon ships rely on it much as an anti-fighter weapon. At close its a shredder, at max range useless.

Thats not odd. All Superfreighters have that level of shielding. All normal TSs have that level of shielding. Look at the prices.

I will look at the PRG.

[paulwheeler]

MINI-UPDATE RELEASED v1.18c
------------------------------------------

This adds the integrity checks to the bounty script and also cleans things up a little.




You only need to update the scripts from Part 2 - make sure you recopy all scripts as quite a few have changed.





At every game load the bounty system will perform a quick check on the main data arrays. If there is a problem you will get an incoming message. You may get this immediately after updating if there is a problem with the arrays in your current game.

If this occurs, please reset the bounty system by switching the AL Plugin off and on. This will clear all existing bounties and reset the system.

I have taken steps in the scripts to hopefully eradicate this bug completely. So if you do get this error on startup, I'm hopeful you will not get it again.

[swatti]

ISSUE:

Khaak Advanced Carrier(and destroyer too) seem to be nearly impossible to dmg OOS.
My brigantine with Gauss Guns has been next to one OOS for an hour now. Sent other ships too, none seem to do much dmg to it, however, it does not seem to dmg my ships eighter.

EDIT:

Bounty spammage: Can you filter out bounties on those races im friendly with, cause "i doubt i'd collect"
Also, it seems terran named "flagships" are taking the top of my bounty-list. Due to their ability to jump out and re-charge shields they are quite invincible to argon attackers.

EDIT2: The forementioned carrier seems to respawn its fighters, oddly, these gain bounty after sertain time even tho they cant have destroyed anything, the whole fight is ~40km from nearest station and no local fighters seem to care and none are there. Been watching pretty closely.

[paulwheeler]

ISSUE:

Khaak Advanced Carrier(and destroyer too) seem to be nearly impossible to dmg OOS.
My brigantine with Gauss Guns has been next to one OOS for an hour now. Sent other ships too, none seem to do much dmg to it, however, it does not seem to dmg my ships eighter.

EDIT:

Bounty spammage: Can you filter out bounties on those races im friendly with, cause "i doubt i'd collect"
Also, it seems terran named "flagships" are taking the top of my bounty-list. Due to their ability to jump out and re-charge shields they are quite invincible to argon attackers.

How close are your ships getting OOS? OOS battles only kick in when the two opposing ships are practically on top of each other.


As for filtering the bounty system - no.

Just because you don't want to attack friendly ships with bounties doesn't mean that everyone else wants to play like that.

As for flagships being top of the list - absolutely as it should be!


Edit - Carriers in the XRM do not spawn ships that quickly. Are you running Improved Races? Their Kha'ak ships spawn fighters relatively quickly IIRC. And the bounty system only kicks in when a ship is killed so there is no way whatsoever a ship can magically gain a bounty.

[swatti]

The ships truely are on top of each other. It seems they do damage each other "every now and then" but not very often. M2 grade dmg tho.

I used plenty of SETA and non-SETA for an hour or so. Saw a khaak fighter-wing ships next to the adv.carrier thinking they were re-spawned fighters. Im not sure how long the battle has been going on tho... Or should i say "standoff"
Seems few border-scouts do slip in, hence the bounty, my bad.

I truely dislike the "no-ranges" thing done with OOS. Having proper ranges tho would be more then ungodly task to balance... Still, feels a bit cheap trick to me.

I'd prefer the filter as an option as the list is going to be filled with HUGE amount of friendlies. Also every sector and capital ship is gonna have $ mark on em and i dare say not very many are going to go against friendly argon flagship in M148, this game has proven there are easier ways to kill yourself ^^

[paulwheeler]

OOS combat is a cheap trick - thats deliberate on Egosoft's part to keep the CPU overhead from it low. But the AP version is far, far superior than the TC version.

[swatti]

OOS combat is a cheap trick - thats deliberate on Egosoft's part to keep the CPU overhead from it low. But the AP version is far, far superior than the TC version.

I can imagine if OOS was more complex, stuff going on in the galaxy would be massive... It does however give huge advantage to sertain things hurting the balance.

EDIT:
Checking stats a bit.
Split Taipan, M2+ seems a bit underwhelming on paper. Poor shields, not that much regen, good laser-energy but quite short range on its anti-capital weapons and not "that good" power. Fast for an M2+ but still slow
Is there something im missing cause it seems this tub seems rubbish compared to most even below its class?

[Master of the Blade]

Taipan has a tiny profile compared to even standard destroyers, meaning it evades more often. The PBP is actually one of the most powerful capital weapons, combining top class power, bullet speed and a decent refire rate. And, of course, the Taipan has the standard M2+ Lots of Guns™.