[MOD] [TC/AP] X3 Rebalance Mod (XRM) - Total conversion - v1.30d (02.12.13)
Moderators: Scripting / Modding Moderators, Moderators for English X Forum
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paulwheeler
- Posts: 8132
- Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 13:33
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swatti
- Posts: 1278
- Joined: Sun, 7. Dec 03, 12:03
Interesting behaviour. A OTAS Sirokos M6 VS Pirate Fujin M5:
The Fujin "twitches" while both run in a circle. Barely noticable but it causes the Sirokos to fire its side-guns WAY off.
This effect might be one source of shots missing all the time.
Also, one more problem to deal with. Once the ships get bigger then M3 or so, the AI seems to have more then one spot to shoot at. Im not sure if these spots are in right spot ^^
A pirate Galleon has 3 spots.
One in the rear, right at the upper edge of the engine. Turn a bit and all shot will miss
One in the middle, this one works just fine, no problems seen.
Last one in the front, at the base of the upper front antenna-thingy. Once again, move a bit and all shots will miss.
I believe there is a similar issue with some fighters. The AI aims wrong, im not sure if player auto-aim does too. Seemingly i can hit normaly just about anything, but when AI does it, it leads its target too much or too little.
Just had a fight with 20 Keas VS Yakis, HUGE amount of shooting going on, but what i see is the hail of bullet like passing thru the yaki fighters.
So please. Do look at the Energy Bolt Chaingun too. Ocrakokes Storm, huge load of Yaki fighters ready to test out what hits and what wont. Something to shorten the time it takes to test ^^
Both PRG and EBC are mad shredders up close, so lowering their power is needed too if hitrates are higher.
The Fujin "twitches" while both run in a circle. Barely noticable but it causes the Sirokos to fire its side-guns WAY off.
This effect might be one source of shots missing all the time.
Also, one more problem to deal with. Once the ships get bigger then M3 or so, the AI seems to have more then one spot to shoot at. Im not sure if these spots are in right spot ^^
A pirate Galleon has 3 spots.
One in the rear, right at the upper edge of the engine. Turn a bit and all shot will miss
One in the middle, this one works just fine, no problems seen.
Last one in the front, at the base of the upper front antenna-thingy. Once again, move a bit and all shots will miss.
I believe there is a similar issue with some fighters. The AI aims wrong, im not sure if player auto-aim does too. Seemingly i can hit normaly just about anything, but when AI does it, it leads its target too much or too little.
Just had a fight with 20 Keas VS Yakis, HUGE amount of shooting going on, but what i see is the hail of bullet like passing thru the yaki fighters.
So please. Do look at the Energy Bolt Chaingun too. Ocrakokes Storm, huge load of Yaki fighters ready to test out what hits and what wont. Something to shorten the time it takes to test ^^
Both PRG and EBC are mad shredders up close, so lowering their power is needed too if hitrates are higher.
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Gavrushka
- Posts: 8252
- Joined: Fri, 26. Mar 04, 19:28
I fly an Adv heavy Osprey with EBC all round and before that I flew the Otas operative M6 with PRG all round- In both ships I've comfortably attacked fighter wings and won... Xenon wings far less comfortably... - I use the hull multiplier pack (high) so it takes time to take down hulls of the bigger ships.
I see no problem - I love combat now... It is balanced and fair... Any M3 that I encounter one on one with an m6 is gone, dead, within a minute, an M6 will take 5 maybe 10 minutes.
Due to the hull multiplier, I'd not dream of taking on an M7, although my own fighter wings are exceptionally effective against an M7 and above.
I'd struggle to offer any meaningful suggestions as how to make things better. For me, it is as close to perfection as makes no odds.
I see no problem - I love combat now... It is balanced and fair... Any M3 that I encounter one on one with an m6 is gone, dead, within a minute, an M6 will take 5 maybe 10 minutes.
Due to the hull multiplier, I'd not dream of taking on an M7, although my own fighter wings are exceptionally effective against an M7 and above.
I'd struggle to offer any meaningful suggestions as how to make things better. For me, it is as close to perfection as makes no odds.
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joelR
- Posts: 2008
- Joined: Mon, 9. Jul 07, 23:33
Agreed. I cant help but remember that in vanilla you could easily take out an M2 with an M3.Gavrushka wrote:I fly an Adv heavy Osprey with EBC all round and before that I flew the Otas operative M6 with PRG all round- In both ships I've comfortably attacked fighter wings and won... Xenon wings far less comfortably... - I use the hull multiplier pack (high) so it takes time to take down hulls of the bigger ships.
I see no problem - I love combat now... It is balanced and fair... Any M3 that I encounter one on one with an m6 is gone, dead, within a minute, an M6 will take 5 maybe 10 minutes.
Due to the hull multiplier, I'd not dream of taking on an M7, although my own fighter wings are exceptionally effective against an M7 and above.
I'd struggle to offer any meaningful suggestions as how to make things better. For me, it is as close to perfection as makes no odds.
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Scoob
- Posts: 11204
- Joined: Thu, 27. Feb 03, 22:28
An M6 as the Players ship, well, the turrets hardly get a look in as you can turn an M6 twice as fast as the AI (odd, but true) as well as do other tricks to keep on the enemies tail. The lack of turret effectiveness with PRGs installed is less of an issue.
However, once you command, or chose to automate via Fleets, ships under AI control the issue is more apparent.
I'm currently flying an M7 Wolf for the record, it's fast but under shielded. Even a single M6 can give it a hard time. It won't kill it but 2gj doesn't last long. Also the Wolfs weapon loadout seems to be very much anti-fighter biased, which I quite like. Very much the light M7 and very effective against small wings of fighters. A great addition to a fleet
Scoob.
However, once you command, or chose to automate via Fleets, ships under AI control the issue is more apparent.
I'm currently flying an M7 Wolf for the record, it's fast but under shielded. Even a single M6 can give it a hard time. It won't kill it but 2gj doesn't last long. Also the Wolfs weapon loadout seems to be very much anti-fighter biased, which I quite like. Very much the light M7 and very effective against small wings of fighters. A great addition to a fleet
Scoob.
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swatti
- Posts: 1278
- Joined: Sun, 7. Dec 03, 12:03
This, in all of its simplicity.Scoob wrote:...
However, once you command, or chose to automate via Fleets, ships under AI control the issue is more apparent.
...
I also did otas operative start and munched most fighters to pieces with the Sirokos. But try giving one to AI.
I cant prove any of this, but it SEEMS that player auto-aim hits where it supposed to... So, part of the problem could be the AI's "aim-points" if that is what i can call em.
These points are seemingly off in some cases.
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A5PECT
- Posts: 6191
- Joined: Sun, 3. Sep 06, 02:31
The AI aims at camera dummies. Since capital ships have lots of camera dummies (thanks to their turrets) the AI will shoot at various points all around the ship, rather than a single centralized one.
It has drawbacks like shots missing, but also means that the AI will fire when the target's hull gets within range, rather than the target's cockpit camera dummy. Imagine the AI trying to hit a Phoenix flying headlong towards it: the Phoenix's cockpit is 2km away from the front of its hull.
Ideally the engine would have a separate set of "target points" developers and modders can place on large ships to tell the AI where to shoot at. But it doesn't and (as far as I know) it's impossible to add that kind of feature in without rewriting the entire engine.
So we'll just have to deal with it.
As for the AI not hitting fighters, it certainly has nothing to do with the auto-aim. The AI uses that same one as the player and it works perfectly in and of itself. The AI just likes to fly in long, curved flight paths and the auto-aim only extrapolates the target's trajectory in a straight line.
It also has more to with how the AI flies; it doesn't make any real attempts to tail opponents or maneuver. All it's designed to do is point its ship at the target, fire weapons while in range, then turn away once collision avoidance is activated. The AI will fire regardless of whether or not it will hit. The only condition is that the target is within weapons range.
It has drawbacks like shots missing, but also means that the AI will fire when the target's hull gets within range, rather than the target's cockpit camera dummy. Imagine the AI trying to hit a Phoenix flying headlong towards it: the Phoenix's cockpit is 2km away from the front of its hull.
Ideally the engine would have a separate set of "target points" developers and modders can place on large ships to tell the AI where to shoot at. But it doesn't and (as far as I know) it's impossible to add that kind of feature in without rewriting the entire engine.
So we'll just have to deal with it.
As for the AI not hitting fighters, it certainly has nothing to do with the auto-aim. The AI uses that same one as the player and it works perfectly in and of itself. The AI just likes to fly in long, curved flight paths and the auto-aim only extrapolates the target's trajectory in a straight line.
It also has more to with how the AI flies; it doesn't make any real attempts to tail opponents or maneuver. All it's designed to do is point its ship at the target, fire weapons while in range, then turn away once collision avoidance is activated. The AI will fire regardless of whether or not it will hit. The only condition is that the target is within weapons range.
Last edited by A5PECT on Wed, 14. Mar 12, 20:44, edited 4 times in total.
Admitting you have a problem is the first step in figuring out how to make it worse.
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swatti
- Posts: 1278
- Joined: Sun, 7. Dec 03, 12:03
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Scoob
- Posts: 11204
- Joined: Thu, 27. Feb 03, 22:28
Yeah, aim points can cause shots to miss the target entirely when engaging large ships such as M1's M2's and TL's. The auto aim (both player and AI) tends to track turrets as hot-spots. Camera dummies as KloHunt3r says.
I thought originally (this was also true in Reunion) that this was the byproduct of a later removed hard-point targetting ability - i.e. take out enemy big ship turrets, but sadly not.
When engaging fighters though the aim point is usually near ship centre, or near enough for it not to matter.
On an aside, related to performance, I just made the following observation.
I noticed that while performance was fine, one of my cores was busier than usual with the others at idle. I usually see two busy cores when playing TC/AP. I saved, exited and reloaded and now in the exact same place I see two cores loaded as usual.
This reinforces my thoughts that the W7 scheduler, while far better than Vista and XP, still sometimes doubles up two heavy threads on a single core. Usually we'd hope to see the main .exe thread (single threaded of course) take one core, while the spawned DX9 thread would take a 2nd core. Usually this its the case, but sometimes it gets it wrong. Worth mentioning again as sometimes performance for some people seems worse one session for no apparent reason. More likely to hit those with lower powered CPU's of course. Personally, with my 2500K, I didn't notice a performance hit, just that my cores were loaded differently to usual. Not sure what causes this, but a simple quit and restart of TC/AP usually sorts it, for me at least.
Oh, and before people yell that TC/AP is SINGLE THREADED, this I know, however the spawned process for DX9 (graphics sound etc.) IS indeed a separate thread, and can be observed as such with the right tools - which I have being both a nerd and a developer
Cheers,
Scoob.
I thought originally (this was also true in Reunion) that this was the byproduct of a later removed hard-point targetting ability - i.e. take out enemy big ship turrets, but sadly not.
When engaging fighters though the aim point is usually near ship centre, or near enough for it not to matter.
On an aside, related to performance, I just made the following observation.
I noticed that while performance was fine, one of my cores was busier than usual with the others at idle. I usually see two busy cores when playing TC/AP. I saved, exited and reloaded and now in the exact same place I see two cores loaded as usual.
This reinforces my thoughts that the W7 scheduler, while far better than Vista and XP, still sometimes doubles up two heavy threads on a single core. Usually we'd hope to see the main .exe thread (single threaded of course) take one core, while the spawned DX9 thread would take a 2nd core. Usually this its the case, but sometimes it gets it wrong. Worth mentioning again as sometimes performance for some people seems worse one session for no apparent reason. More likely to hit those with lower powered CPU's of course. Personally, with my 2500K, I didn't notice a performance hit, just that my cores were loaded differently to usual. Not sure what causes this, but a simple quit and restart of TC/AP usually sorts it, for me at least.
Oh, and before people yell that TC/AP is SINGLE THREADED, this I know, however the spawned process for DX9 (graphics sound etc.) IS indeed a separate thread, and can be observed as such with the right tools - which I have being both a nerd and a developer
Cheers,
Scoob.
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Alan Phipps
- Moderator (English)
- Posts: 31829
- Joined: Fri, 16. Apr 04, 19:21
It could also be the OS/BIOS rapidly swapping the busiest core to manage core heat and power distribution in the cpu. It can make a busy single-thread exe look like it is using one or more cores. It's appearance depends and varies a lot on the frequency of core swapping and the length of the core monitoring sample period. I'm not saying it is this in your case though Scoob.
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.
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Scoob
- Posts: 11204
- Joined: Thu, 27. Feb 03, 22:28
Hi,
Yes, basically I guess upon launching AP that particular time ONE core was the most attractive for both threads. Possibly some background process doing stuff that that particular moment elsewhere. Plus the scheduler has no idea quite how intensive a task will be when it's initially launched will it. One would hope it'd go "Ah, we're running THAT again are we?" but it doesn't.
Interestingly, during gameplay, I now see two cores consistantly busy at 25 to 45% Note: I've set affinity to just two cores to test. If I hit pause, so the game-engine is largely inactive, one core drops to near-zero, while the other goes to nearer 80% I take this to be the the DX9 thread still working hard. After all, according to Afterburner, my screen is still being refreshed at 60fps and the cards are indeed busy, if not pushed at all. The engine isn't providing anything new as such, so DX9 keeps rendering the "Paused" screen. Still, two 570's in SLI hardly work at all in AP
Still, far from a big deal
On another note, gamplay query...
I just got the unfocussed jump-drive and was amazed that the first time I used it I found the near-mythical Aran. I captured it, jumped it back to race space just fine. However, while it shows on my property list it does not show on the Sector view, nor can I target it when facing it in the usual way. I have to go into my property view to do anything with it at all.
From what I remember this is a very old bug, I mean, the Aran was placed there by Egosoft for us to find at random after all. I had thought this had been addressed some time back, as I've had the Aran before. However, possibly one of the mods I was using at the time (ages ago) actually applied the fix.
Paul, is this something you could look at? I guess it's just the ships information isn't quite right / complete for it to appear as a fully working ship in-game.
Cheers,
Scoob.
Yes, basically I guess upon launching AP that particular time ONE core was the most attractive for both threads. Possibly some background process doing stuff that that particular moment elsewhere. Plus the scheduler has no idea quite how intensive a task will be when it's initially launched will it. One would hope it'd go "Ah, we're running THAT again are we?" but it doesn't.
Interestingly, during gameplay, I now see two cores consistantly busy at 25 to 45% Note: I've set affinity to just two cores to test. If I hit pause, so the game-engine is largely inactive, one core drops to near-zero, while the other goes to nearer 80% I take this to be the the DX9 thread still working hard. After all, according to Afterburner, my screen is still being refreshed at 60fps and the cards are indeed busy, if not pushed at all. The engine isn't providing anything new as such, so DX9 keeps rendering the "Paused" screen. Still, two 570's in SLI hardly work at all in AP
Still, far from a big deal
On another note, gamplay query...
I just got the unfocussed jump-drive and was amazed that the first time I used it I found the near-mythical Aran. I captured it, jumped it back to race space just fine. However, while it shows on my property list it does not show on the Sector view, nor can I target it when facing it in the usual way. I have to go into my property view to do anything with it at all.
From what I remember this is a very old bug, I mean, the Aran was placed there by Egosoft for us to find at random after all. I had thought this had been addressed some time back, as I've had the Aran before. However, possibly one of the mods I was using at the time (ages ago) actually applied the fix.
Paul, is this something you could look at? I guess it's just the ships information isn't quite right / complete for it to appear as a fully working ship in-game.
Cheers,
Scoob.
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paulwheeler
- Posts: 8132
- Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 13:33
I believe this is deliberate so that you can only find the Aran by actually looking rather than just checking the scanner. In any case, it will be deep within the confines of a director script somewhere and it would be the proverbial needle in a haystack.Scoob wrote: I just got the unfocussed jump-drive and was amazed that the first time I used it I found the near-mythical Aran. I captured it, jumped it back to race space just fine. However, while it shows on my property list it does not show on the Sector view, nor can I target it when facing it in the usual way. I have to go into my property view to do anything with it at all.
From what I remember this is a very old bug, I mean, the Aran was placed there by Egosoft for us to find at random after all. I had thought this had been addressed some time back, as I've had the Aran before. However, possibly one of the mods I was using at the time (ages ago) actually applied the fix.
Paul, is this something you could look at? I guess it's just the ships information isn't quite right / complete for it to appear as a fully working ship in-game.
Cheers,
Scoob.
I suggest the use of the clone command from the cheat scripts.
Or you could always buy a fresh one from the Goner shipyard.
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Scoob
- Posts: 11204
- Joined: Thu, 27. Feb 03, 22:28
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FlutterRAGE
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Wed, 14. Mar 12, 21:48
Testing....is this thing on? "I think it is"
Wonder why it took me that long to find this mod which got pretty much all the mods that i already use and MOAR.
playing it on AP btw
I got 2 question.
1: I am having performance issue because of the sheer number of drones being constandly launched by NPC. Is there a way to disable it or better yet, set a limit on what class ship can launch. (I also got MARS Pirate guild Yaki Amader. ADS and IR 2.0[which is not active atm])
2: I started off as the rogue AI which is not 1 of the vanilla start. How do i start the main plot?
Wonder why it took me that long to find this mod which got pretty much all the mods that i already use and MOAR.
playing it on AP btw
I got 2 question.
1: I am having performance issue because of the sheer number of drones being constandly launched by NPC. Is there a way to disable it or better yet, set a limit on what class ship can launch. (I also got MARS Pirate guild Yaki Amader. ADS and IR 2.0[which is not active atm])
2: I started off as the rogue AI which is not 1 of the vanilla start. How do i start the main plot?
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paulwheeler
- Posts: 8132
- Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 13:33
1 - Drones? I've never heard of that complaint before... Only freighters should be carrying drones.FlutterRAGE wrote:Testing....is this thing on? "I think it is"
Wonder why it took me that long to find this mod which got pretty much all the mods that i already use and MOAR.
playing it on AP btw
I got 2 question.
1: I am having performance issue because of the sheer number of drones being constandly launched by NPC. Is there a way to disable it or better yet, set a limit on what class ship can launch. (I also got MARS Pirate guild Yaki Amader. ADS and IR 2.0[which is not active atm])
2: I started off as the rogue AI which is not 1 of the vanilla start. How do i start the main plot?
2 - The main plot is disabled in XRM as it is not compatible with the XRM "war". However, you can do the 2.0 PHQ and HUB plots.
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Scoob
- Posts: 11204
- Joined: Thu, 27. Feb 03, 22:28
MARS has the option to deploy drones in combat for anti-missile and general defense duty - I guess this is what you're seeing? When enabled on AI ships this can cause drones to be launch to engage incoming missiles. There IS a cap on how many drones a single ship will launch (12 I think) but that is 12 more special AI's to keep track of, plus the laser spam that results.
Personally I set the options "Goblin decoy missions" and "Goblin missile defense" to OFF.
Additionally, enabling ALL AI cap ships to use MARS does give quite the performance hit in large fights. I use MARS on a couple of my personal ships, but since Gazz re-wrote the turret scripts for AP they really are quite a lot better - configurable too.
Try turning MARS off initially, then play around with the setting to find a level that works for you. Remember, MARS does have performance options too to make the AI a little dumber, but more CPU friendly
For me, MARS is great on my personal ship for collecting loot
Cheers,
Scoob.
Personally I set the options "Goblin decoy missions" and "Goblin missile defense" to OFF.
Additionally, enabling ALL AI cap ships to use MARS does give quite the performance hit in large fights. I use MARS on a couple of my personal ships, but since Gazz re-wrote the turret scripts for AP they really are quite a lot better - configurable too.
Try turning MARS off initially, then play around with the setting to find a level that works for you. Remember, MARS does have performance options too to make the AI a little dumber, but more CPU friendly
For me, MARS is great on my personal ship for collecting loot
Cheers,
Scoob.
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FlutterRAGE
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Wed, 14. Mar 12, 21:48
I disabled MARS and not a single drone was launched.Scoob wrote:MARS has the option to deploy drones in combat for anti-missile and general defense duty - I guess this is what you're seeing? When enabled on AI ships this can cause drones to be launch to engage incoming missiles. There IS a cap on how many drones a single ship will launch (12 I think) but that is 12 more special AI's to keep track of, plus the laser spam that results.
Personally I set the options "Goblin decoy missions" and "Goblin missile defense" to OFF.
Additionally, enabling ALL AI cap ships to use MARS does give quite the performance hit in large fights. I use MARS on a couple of my personal ships, but since Gazz re-wrote the turret scripts for AP they really are quite a lot better - configurable too.
Try turning MARS off initially, then play around with the setting to find a level that works for you. Remember, MARS does have performance options too to make the AI a little dumber, but more CPU friendly
For me, MARS is great on my personal ship for collecting loot
Cheers,
Scoob.
It was mainly the graphic that lagged. Watching my 2 560 TI in SLI running the game at <10 fps is funny
And i notice a really bad graphic(or at least i think) lag happens when i am docking into 1 of the internal hanger, in my case it was docking M6 in NMNC HQ. Haven't tried other internal docking bay yet.
Thanks for the advices =)
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the Mercenary
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue, 28. Feb 12, 15:19
Does this mod include P2P Jumpdrive? Which ships have it?
I just bought myself a phoenix and its realy impossible to arrive anywhere anytime soon.. that ship is just so slooow..
anyways is there any chance i can add a P2P jumpdrive to it? or do only the m2+ have it?!
I just bought myself a phoenix and its realy impossible to arrive anywhere anytime soon.. that ship is just so slooow..
anyways is there any chance i can add a P2P jumpdrive to it? or do only the m2+ have it?!
My Weaponsgenerator vs your Shieldgenerator
My Flight Skill vs your Projectile Speed
My M6 vs your M2
My Flight Skill vs your Projectile Speed
My M6 vs your M2
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swatti
- Posts: 1278
- Joined: Sun, 7. Dec 03, 12:03