Why Terran ships are so slow?

[SmarterThanAll]

Aaaand the DLC is here. Please tell me about the final stats and the ability to install the terran components to commonwealth ships? Are the terran ships still garbage? To bad - the Okinawa still worse than Shuyaku hands down =( almost 2 times slower. But the cargohols is 42000 - a little better than it was. But still lower than Shuyaku. So the Title DLC Terran superrior ship is inferior to good old Shuyaku. Not just inferior. 2 times inferior. Good bye forever, Okinawa =(

Bruh I already told you the Terran economy is completely different to the commonwealth thus comparing the Okinawa to commonwealth traders is a false comparison.

[SmarterThanAll]

Mild Spoilers Ahead

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The Terran start is pretty awesome though they get access to the PHQ in a different way. Compared to the other starts the Terran one is pretty fleshed out. An you start with access to Inner Sol. If you weren't aware trying to enter Sol without a Terran license is a death sentence they will absolutely not hesitate to kill you. You need a license to enter the inner planets and another one to enter Moon/Earth. You'll get warned of course but they'll for sure try to **** you if you ignore the warnings. I saw a streamer get completely ganked by a massive Terran fleet waiting on the other side of the Moon accelerator when he ignored warnings. He was playing the Terran even as that start you still gotta earn your way to Earth.

What a bunch of uptight douches...

I mean they are literally called the Terran Protectorate. What did you expect they just let anyone into the Cradle of Humanity?

[SmarterThanAll]

By the way, I just watched an Osaka tear apart a Xenon K like it was nobody's business, their guns are powerful.

Yep - that sounds like an Osaka alright. Even if it is only a baby Osaka compared to the X³ one ^^

Yeah but from what I've seen the Osaka travel around in rather large groups of 4 or more. An sometimes with a Syn which seems like the Osaka's big brother

[AsadullinIF]

Aaaand the DLC is here. Please tell me about the final stats and the ability to install the terran components to commonwealth ships? Are the terran ships still garbage? To bad - the Okinawa still worse than Shuyaku hands down =( almost 2 times slower. But the cargohols is 42000 - a little better than it was. But still lower than Shuyaku. So the Title DLC Terran superrior ship is inferior to good old Shuyaku. Not just inferior. 2 times inferior. Good bye forever, Okinawa =(

Bruh I already told you the Terran economy is completely different to the commonwealth thus comparing the Okinawa to commonwealth traders is a false comparison.

Yeaр. But you are wrong. Sorry. Your opinion is wrong in the context of computer games, balance and game design. I answered in more detail in one of my previous posts.

[AsadullinIF]

Alright, just from playing Terrans for a short while, I can say they are definitely my favorite ships. I love their weapons and quick turns with fighters.

Please tell me - can you install the terran components to commonwealth ships?

Well, I saw I can install the commonwealth components to my terran fighter, well I don't have good enough relations to see all the guns and stuff yet, but I can put the engines and some of the guns on it.

Ok just tried to see if I could with this Teladi Guillemot ship i got. I can put the terran pulse laser on it but I can't put the Meson stream or proton barrage on it. I can put the shields and engines on it

Thank you for that! I can't play the game by myself for the moment.

[mr.WHO]

I think you can install weapons and components between terran/commonwealth ships with the exception of Terran weapons.

It seems Terran weapons have "high energy" tag on weapon/turrets slots, so you can only install them on Terran ships (unless there is a Commonwealth ships that have high power slot?).

[AsadullinIF]

Maybe it not the ships, but the engines? Can anyone test the speed of Commonwealth L-trader with a terran engines? Or the Okinawa with a Argon/Paranid engines?

[AsadullinIF]

I think you can install weapons and components between terran/commonwealth ships with the exception of Terran weapons.

It seems Terran weapons have "high energy" tag on weapon/turrets slots, so you can only install them on Terran ships (unless there is a Commonwealth ships that have high power slot?).

Yeah it look like the terran ships may be completely fine, but the terran engines are special - painfuly slow but has the fast acceleration to the travel mode.

[mr.WHO]

Maybe it not the ships, but the engines? Can anyone test the speed of Commonwealth L-trader with a terran engines? Or the Okinawa with a Argon/Paranid engines?

Encyclopedia show that best engines for Terran ships are Split Engines, so I assume you can interchange engines between them and should work both ways as only Terran weapons have special flag.

[grapedog]

I think you can install weapons and components between terran/commonwealth ships with the exception of Terran weapons.

It seems Terran weapons have "high energy" tag on weapon/turrets slots, so you can only install them on Terran ships (unless there is a Commonwealth ships that have high power slot?).

Yeah it look like the terran ships may be completely fine, but the terran engines are special - painfuly slow but has the fast acceleration to the travel mode.

Ive only been using the rapier, but what you say feels correct. Im that the rapier with an mk2 travel engine i think, has a sub 300kms top speed, but VERY quickly gets up to 5000kms travel speed.

With engines like that, high top travel speed, super quick build up... i would seriously consider them over other engines for my miners and traders. Id have to see them in use, but easy to reach high top travel speeds sounds great for merchants, especislly away from the inner system

[Alkeena]

It's fairly clear from the stats that the Terrans were meant to be flown differently from the other races. They have respectable (though not best in class) effective thrust ratings for both boost and travel modes. More importantly they have exceptional acceleration characteristics for both boost and travel mode.

https://i.imgur.com/W3sAmX6.png

See those attack/release values as well as the boost duration on the combat drive (for this forum only look at the rows with 'base' as a source)? I believe they're meant to be using boost and travel mode basically constantly for little micro jumps around the battlefield (rather than sustained speed) and the high reverse thrust lets them keep it controllable.

It's also not clear that the AI uses this dynamic very well, if at all.

VRO, for those using it, unfortunately breaks this dynamic pretty badly and Terran engines are just terrible in all respects.

[vertauris]

I love the design. the feeling of emptyness in terran sectors due to so few stations. Reminds me of old X games when sector were no to packed with station on every corner. BUT the slowness of the S classships is i think the only thing i would like to be improved. i dont want it to be on PAR or SPL level. but just add some speed to them. even the scouts are terribly slow.

[tomchk]

Now I forget which S ships in the DLC were not slow—playing it, the first 2 fighters I’ve flown are definitely too slow IMO.

[mr.WHO]

It's fairly clear from the stats that the Terrans were meant to be flown differently from the other races. They have respectable (though not best in class) effective thrust ratings for both combat and travel drives. More importantly they have exceptional acceleration characteristics for both boost and travel mode.

https://i.imgur.com/W3sAmX6.png

See those attack/release values (for this forum only look at the rows with 'base' as a source)? I believe they're meant to be using boost and travel mode basically constantly for little micro jumps around the battlefield (rather than sustained speed) and the high reverse thrust lets them keep it controllable.

Interesting!
It might be worth to go with pure Terran design. Combined with their relatively good and fast recharge of Terran shields, I can use boosters more frequently. Add powerful terran weapons and you have ultra fun combat platform on par with Split designs.

[Alkeena]

It's fairly clear from the stats that the Terrans were meant to be flown differently from the other races. They have respectable (though not best in class) effective thrust ratings for both combat and travel drives. More importantly they have exceptional acceleration characteristics for both boost and travel mode.

https://i.imgur.com/W3sAmX6.png

See those attack/release values (for this forum only look at the rows with 'base' as a source)? I believe they're meant to be using boost and travel mode basically constantly for little micro jumps around the battlefield (rather than sustained speed) and the high reverse thrust lets them keep it controllable.

Interesting!
It might be worth to go with pure Terran design. Combined with their relatively good and fast recharge of Terran shields, I can use boosters more frequently. Add powerful terran weapons and you have ultra fun combat platform on par with Split designs.

Just for the sake of clarity I altered the section you quoted in the original post from:

"They have respectable (though not best in class) effective thrust ratings for both combat and travel drives."

to

"They have respectable (though not best in class) effective thrust ratings for both boost and travel modes."

[mr.WHO]

Just for the sake of clarity I altered the section you quoted in the original post from:

"They have respectable (though not best in class) effective thrust ratings for both combat and travel drives."

to

"They have respectable (though not best in class) effective thrust ratings for both boost and travel modes."

Doesn't change much, because with boost and fast "enter travel mode" I can dictate the combat pace. If I don't liek the situation, boost to safe distance and then quick trigger travel mode.
To some extend AI can also use boosters, so it also works with AI controled ships.

I don't like dogfight custerf*ck. I'm more like attack with fly-by and disengage when situation get worse - Split ships are too fragile-shield for me, so Terrans seems to be attractive choice.

[Sam97531]

Unfortunately ship balance and performance in this game has suffered significantly since X3. The OP does make some very valid points.

For example, without mods, several Corvettes are much faster and nearly as manoeuvrable as many heavy fighters and in some cases faster than even light fighters.

Some heavy fighters have less guns or less shields than even regular fighters. Sometimes even with their own factions.

We introduced mk1,2 and 3 weapons for no purpose other than the bargain prices for uselessly under powered weaponry.

We added shield types but we did not differentiate them enough for S classes.

We added Terrans but they are nowhere as unique nor powerful as they were in X.3. In fact they’re just slightly different but not really powerful in comparison.

Unfortunately we will have to resort to mods to try to get those nice niche rolls that were previously available in X3. VRO is a very good step in that direction.

X.3, you can tell, had a very clear and clean design logic, not mention variety in feel of ships within the same class. This just seems all over the place with a lot of ships that are just downright useless or inferior and not effective in any niche.

[Alm888]

Now that I've tested this… The starting Rapier is total garbage on default TER S Travel Mk1 engine. Feels like it is a 10000 ton freighter train on rails. From its 5000 m/s travel speed it is 15 km brake distance!

10 vs. 12 seconds of travel mode recoil time (TER vs. ARG) is hardly different, and with terrible speed an enemy will make sure you won't get away far enough for long enough to actually use travel mode.
Even the Mk1 travel engines from ARG are better stat-wise. But I've opted for Mk2 Combat variant. The ship feels completely different on ARG engines!

I think at least Rapier is OK. Maybe not the best scout around, but passable. The engines are the real issue.

P.S. It is little known, but it is engine what determines shield depletion rate on boost, not shield (I believe, PAR engines being the best). So, superior shields won't help Terrans in the slightest.

[chew-ie]

P.S. It is little known, but it is engine what determines shield depletion rate on boost, not shield (I believe, PAR engines being the best). So, superior shields won't help Terrans in the slightest.

Have a look at the engine boost times - terran engines are far superior in that regard. Like 12s (PAR, combat) vs 19s (TER, combat). I barely see my shield go down because of boosting out of combat. In fact, for the very first time I'm using boost during dogfights _because_ I don't deplete my main defense layer.

[Axeface]

Whats the travel mode charge time and ramp up time on the L and XL engines? Also, what is the boost 'attack' on the L and XL? If they have much higher attack speed for boost is it possible that capitals on terran engines boosting might actually achieve something?