Russia-Ukraine War

[EGO_Aut]

"Any day now" has been the narrative of US/NATO for weeks now and nothing has happened in that way. And yes, Putin can take the Ukraine any day he wants to and neither the US nor NATO could do anything against it.
Um, Biden/US is delivering weapons to Ukraine - sending a Bearpatrol eastwards... in my dictionary this counts as aiding militarily .
Face it, anything the US is doing in this crisis is escalating it even further. Who actually cares if the Ukraine is ever to be allowed to join NATO? It's decades from now before anyone right his mind would even consider a corrupt state like that as a reliable partner.
Heck, just give Putin the bone he wants. Make it so that he also cannot ally with a future corrupt Ukraine and everybody can go home without losing face and wasting taxpayers money.

Yes, that's right.
Sometimes I think the world is crazy? There is no more decency and honor in diplomatic circles. No cooperation, but everyone on one, regardless. Added to this is the short-sightedness of those who judge.

[Vertigo 7]

Really?

The world is crazy but Russia, the beacon of stability and decency and honor and all those things it's so well known for, is the sane one?

[JSDD]

hmm ... i really dont know what the point / goal of a russian invasion into ukraine could be ...

economic benefit ?? i guess no ... ukraine has almost no natural resources
winning new territory ?? why? russia ist the biggest country on the map
political security? ukraine cant become a member of nato until its territorial integrity is fix (but russia claimed the crimea/donetsk)

so ... what can russia "win"? what russia can loose is clear, lives of soliders ...

funny, the U.S. are forecasting this (imaginary) invasion to wednesday ^^ what a joke!

[Warenwolf]

hmm ... i really dont know what the point / goal of a russian invasion into ukraine could be ...

economic benefit ?? i guess no ... ukraine has almost no natural resources
winning new territory ?? why? russia ist the biggest country on the map
political security? ukraine cant become a member of nato until its territorial integrity is fix (but russia claimed the crimea/donetsk)

so ... what can russia "win"? what russia can loose is clear, lives of soliders ...

funny, the U.S. are forecasting this (imaginary) invasion to wednesday ^^ what a joke!

Your arguments have no logic. Invasions of crimea/donetsk make no sense according to you - yet they happened. Russia's engagement in Syria is even less logical IF we assume that Putin is guided by your logic. Neither do the threats to Finland and Sweden.

Putin's motivation is not that hard to figure out :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundatio ... and_impact

[JSDD]

Your arguments have no logic. Invasions of crimea/donetsk make no sense according to you - yet they happened.

hmm ... crimea has a very important haven for militäry ships which was owned by the russians, but "is" (or better "was") on ukranian soil. so russians made sure they have access to their port

regarding donetsk, the was mayority is of russian nationality and has been discriminized in many regards ... besides that, donetsk has important industrial factories

i simply dont believe that russia will invade anywhere in the near future ...

as i side remark, i dont believe that russian politics has anything to do with "nazi ideoligy" and what not ^^
dont focus too much on the russians, just take a look on the ukranian side an you will see many ideologically deluded people !!
(talking about war against a country which has the largest amount of tanks and nukes in the world ... ridiculous)

[Vertigo 7]

So people that want to be free from Russian oppression are "ideologically deluded people"? That speaks volumes...

Ukraine has never once said it was going to attack Russia. It has said it will defend itself if Russia attacks. If you think self-defense is somehow justification for escalation of hostilities, sorry but you're nuts.

[felter]

So Russia has said they were not going to invade Ukraine, that they had no intention of doing so. Yesterday, Russia said there is still time for a diplomatic solution, I say, a diplomatic solution to what and if there is no diplomatic solution reached just exactly what are they saying they are going to do. In reality, it just looks like Russia has all but announced their intention to invade Ukraine after all, as that is what it sounds like when they say there is still time for a diplomatic solution.

[Gavrushka]

So Russia has said they were not going to invade Ukraine, that they had no intention of doing so. Yesterday, Russia said there is still time for a diplomatic solution, I say, a diplomatic solution to what and if there is no diplomatic solution reached just exactly what are they saying they are going to do. In reality, it just looks like Russia has all but announced their intention to invade Ukraine after all, as that is what it sounds like when they say there is still time for a diplomatic solution.

There's a special word in Russia for telling a lie that everyone knows is a lie, but you say it anyway. - I wish I was still on speaking terms with my ex-wife as she'd tell me it in seconds. - During our marriage she offered up plenty of practical examples, one of which involved me parting with a huge sum of money.

I wonder if she's commanding one of those tanks...

[chew-ie]

Seems like some pressure is vented - some troops were called home. Although russia tries to sale it as "failure of the west" on some channels (old hat to save face) I'd say its a good sign if one does ignore the diplomatic-politic-mumbo-jumbo

[mr.WHO]

Seems like some pressure is vented - some troops were called home. Although russia tries to sale it as "failure of the west" on some channels (old hat to save face) I'd say its a good sign if one does ignore the diplomatic-politic-mumbo-jumbo

We'll be sure after a week or so, cuz at the moment "going back home" might take some spontanious detour through Ukraine.
It's not like decieval is not a basic tool of warfare.

[notaterran]

Russia's defence ministry said earlier that some troops in the country's military districts adjacent to Ukraine were returning to their bases after completing drills

Link

If Putin calculated that the cost would be too high and is now backing off, that can only be a positive development. Perhaps the West can keep supplying arms to Ukraine, just in case?

[greypanther]

There's a special word in Russia for telling a lie that everyone knows is a lie, but you say it anyway. - I wish I was still on speaking terms with my ex-wife as she'd tell me it in seconds. - During our marriage she offered up plenty of practical examples, one of which involved me parting with a huge sum of money.

I wonder if she's commanding one of those tanks...

Just one tank Gav? From what you have said about your ex, ( now and in the past, ) she sounds more like KGB or Spetsnaz...

[Gavrushka]

Just one tank Gav? From what you have said about your ex, ( now and in the past, ) she sounds more like KGB or Spetsnaz...

Ah, she got turned down for both due to lack of moral fibre.

No, 20 years on I'm not bitter. Not a bit...

[Cpt.Jericho]

Seems like some pressure is vented - some troops were called home. Although russia tries to sale it as "failure of the west" on some channels (old hat to save face) I'd say its a good sign if one does ignore the diplomatic-politic-mumbo-jumbo

We'll be sure after a week or so, cuz at the moment "going back home" might take some spontanious detour through Ukraine.
It's not like decieval is not a basic tool of warfare.

There has never been a single shred of evidence presented by the US that Russia actually ever planned to invade. The US claimed that Russia will do so - Russia denied. The US claimed any day now - Russia denied. The Russians return to their barracks and the US still claim any day now.
The Russians do as they have been saying from the beginning and are still being accused of being the Axis of Evil? Time to take of your tinfoil hats...

[Vertigo 7]

Yeaaaaahhh... that'd mean something if you hadn't dismissed everything that anyone but Russia produced. Alas, it's more nonsense.

[Observe]

From what I can ascertain, Russia has some (to them) legitimate security concerns. It would be in everyone's interests to give them a serious and honest ear. Granted, other countries may not see things the way Russia does, but we dismiss them at our peril, now or in the future.

[fiksal]

Ukraine is not a separate country

I wonder how many Russians believe that, and if the propaganda is working.

Good question. None that we are friends with.

From what I can ascertain, Russia has some (to them) legitimate security concerns. It would be in everyone's interests to give them a serious and honest ear. Granted, other countries may not see things the way Russia does, but we dismiss them at our peril, now or in the future.

I dont think this so. It's delusions, not legitimate security concerns.

[EGO_Aut]

Ukraine is not a separate country

I wonder how many Russians believe that, and if the propaganda is working.

Good question. None that we are friends with.

From what I can ascertain, Russia has some (to them) legitimate security concerns. It would be in everyone's interests to give them a serious and honest ear. Granted, other countries may not see things the way Russia does, but we dismiss them at our peril, now or in the future.

I dont think this so. It's delusions, not legitimate security concerns.

But Guantanamo, Golan, Syria aso is fully legit

[Warenwolf]

But Guantanamo, Golan, Syria aso is fully legit

I asked you before in this thread but you never answered - to paraphrase again : if A rapes a woman, is it ok for B to be raping women?

From what I can ascertain, Russia has some (to them) legitimate security concerns. It would be in everyone's interests to give them a serious and honest ear. Granted, other countries may not see things the way Russia does, but we dismiss them at our peril, now or in the future.

Which is probably why Putin engineered this situation in the first place. Biden, Scholz and Macron have all talked to Putin.
As to giving in to Putin now due to "security concerns" - well history has shown us how that story tends to go. A decade or even sooner we will be having a debate regarding whether we should give in Putin or another Tsar of russians in Baltic (and just as now there will be those "realists" arguing that one should give other people's lands to the thug to preserve world peace).

[EGO_Aut]

But Guantanamo, Golan, Syria aso is fully legit

I asked you before in this thread but you never answered - to paraphrase again : if A rapes a woman, is it ok for B to be raping women?

No of cause it is not.

Now let me ask you one question:
Isn't it a crime to accuse someone who has done nothing?

Beside this,.....if a child doesn't listen when you warn it not to do something, it shouldn't be surprised at the consequences.