Russia-Ukraine War

[mr.WHO]

There is danger that desperate Ukrainian seeing his country go under decides to utilize radioactive burn earth tactic.

It wouldn't take much for them to utilize the radioactive waste to make dirty bombs... not that Russia is in any dire need for nuclear material. But it certainly would cause a lot of panic were they to set off bombs in the reactor and lob debris everywhere...

I've checked the weather report - next few days the wind is to the north through Baltics and Finland, later to the weekend it to the East and only later it changes to South.

This is waaaaay to dangerous for practical use and could backfire, like Germans gassing themselves during WW1.
Plus radioactive fallout going around the world, would make Russia a pariah even below North Korea.

This would be literally the most stupid move in history of human warfare.

[Observe]

This would be literally the most stupid move in history of human warfare.

I agree. Whatever Putin may be, he is definitely not stupid and it seems to me that deliberately releasing radiation from Chernobyl would be about the most stupid thing anyone could do. The Ukrainian President may be a different story. He doesn't strike me as particularly competent.

[Warenwolf]

I've checked the weather report - next few days the wind is to the north through Baltics and Finland, later to the weekend it to the East and only later it changes to South.

This is waaaaay to dangerous for practical use and could backfire, like Germans gassing themselves during WW1.
Plus radioactive fallout going around the world, would make Russia a pariah even below North Korea.

This would be literally the most stupid move in history of human warfare.

Don't misunderstand this - I presume you have not lived in a war zone (which is a good thing!). So of course - what I wrote makes no sense to you.
I was kid during war in Bosnia. There is no more dangerous creature in the world than your fellow human that has nothing left to lose and plenty to avenge. Rationality has nothing to do with it.

But Russians have no motives to do this, on this I agree with you. I think both me and Vertigo had desperate ukranians in mind.

[notaterran]

I removed the "?" from the thread's title. A couple of months ago I hoped that this would be avoided, but unfortunately it was not to be. Putin couldn't care less about sanctions. And speaking of Putin, it's interesting that the two most notorious Putin apologists are Republicans: Donald Trump and Tucker Carlson. Are they hoping that Putin will win?

[Vertigo 7]

I've checked the weather report - next few days the wind is to the north through Baltics and Finland, later to the weekend it to the East and only later it changes to South.

This is waaaaay to dangerous for practical use and could backfire, like Germans gassing themselves during WW1.
Plus radioactive fallout going around the world, would make Russia a pariah even below North Korea.

This would be literally the most stupid move in history of human warfare.

Don't misunderstand this - I presume you have not lived in a war zone (which is a good thing!). So of course - what I wrote makes no sense to you.
I was kid during war in Bosnia. There is no more dangerous creature in the world than your fellow human that has nothing left to lose and plenty to avenge. Rationality has nothing to do with it.

But Russians have no motives to do this, on this I agree with you. I think both me and Vertigo had desperate ukranians in mind.

Yes, dirty bombs have more impact on causing panic than actual destruction/killing. Russia is no stranger to psychological warfare, and I wouldn't put it past them to use something like Chernobyl to demoralize Ukrainians. They're already attacking civilian housings so, par for the course, imo.

[mr.WHO]

But Russians have no motives to do this, on this I agree with you. I think both me and Vertigo had desperate ukranians in mind.

For the very same reasons Ukrainians wouldn't do it either, no matter how desperate - on sunday the wind is forecasted to change to the South.
Irradiating your own capital is not sounds defense plan.

[fiksal]

Can someone explain why Russia would want to take Chernobyl nuclear power plant as one of their first targets? Isn't that still shut down, or is there some other nearby plant that is still operational? This doesn't make sense to me.

There are couple in the area, but I think they've been all shut down years ago or never ran. Russian army probably is there because military controls the perimeter around the plant, so they hit all military targets, and it's near to Kiev.

[Observe]

There are couple in the area, but I think they've been all shut down years ago or never ran. Russian army probably is there because military controls the perimeter around the plant, so they hit all military targets, and it's near to Kiev.

Makes sense.

[Warenwolf]

For the very same reasons Ukrainians wouldn't do it either, no matter how desperate - on sunday the wind is forecasted to change to the South.
Irradiating your own capital is not sounds defense plan.

I kinda suspect Kyev is going to be Russian territory (and everything south of it) part of new Russian fiefdom in one form or another.

[Panos]

Like China, Russia likes to crack down on such things hard.

Good thing they bringing freedom to the people of the Ukraine then - as there seem to be all kind of Nazis and other bad guys oppressing the civilian population. Not.

Unsurprising that is exactly the rhetoric on Russian propaganda channels

Actually this is true.

Ukraine is a made up country of the mid 1990s by policies made by Lenin and Khrushchev. As a country never existed in history or as a nation.
The east 2/3 of the country are Russian majority population (80-95%), with a huge Greek minority which is there over 4000 years.
These are undisputed facts.

Everything was fine until UK, USA and EU toppled the leggaly elected government in 2014, put puppet dictatorship of the neonazis-russian haters of West Ukraine.

The rest is pretty simple. As USA doesn't want Russian nukes in Cuba, so Russia doesn't want American nukes in Ukraine. And with the request to join NATO on the 22nd Feb (2 days ago) by Ukraine, that was a red line crossed. The rest is history.

FYI Except Kiev, on the rest east 45% country, the Russians just walked over in just 11 hours today and received as liberators. Is the reason Ukraine relied heavily on the neoNazi recruits with units and emblems similar to the SS over the last 8 years, instead of normal troops. The majority are Russians, they would never fought their own kind.

[Panos]

For the very same reasons Ukrainians wouldn't do it either, no matter how desperate - on sunday the wind is forecasted to change to the South.
Irradiating your own capital is not sounds defense plan.

I kinda suspect Kyev is going to be Russian territory (and everything south of it) part of new Russian fiefdom in one form or another.

As it was since forver until 1993. Ukraine never existed as a country until 1993, nor at a nation.

[mr.WHO]

As it was since forver until 1993. Ukraine never existed as a country until 1993, nor at a nation.

This is a load of BS from Russian propaganda.

Kiev Rus is as old as Poland and by the same logic, Poland doesn't deserved to exist either after 123 years of partitions.
When the Kiev Rus became a state, Moscow was a forest for next 300 years.

...if anything Hitler was using the same arguments when invading Poland.

[Observe]

So what is the end-game here? Is Putin willing to engage in a forever war in Ukraine? Doesn't seem very productive or sustainable.

[Warenwolf]

As it was since forver until 1993. Ukraine never existed as a country until 1993, nor at a nation.

This is a load of BS from Russian propaganda.

Kiev Rus is as old as Poland and by the same logic, Poland doesn't deserved to exist either after 123 years of partitions.
When the Kiev Rus became a state, Moscow was a forest for next 300 years.

...if anything Hitler was using the same arguments when invading Poland.

And Stalin Finland...

[fiksal]

As a country never existed in history or as a nation.

Absolute nonsense.
Ukraine is as real as Russian Federation, as USSR, as Kievan Rus.
As many countries in modern day Europe, as Canada, as USA.

You have repeated by all accounts nationalists and fascists rhetoric. I realize other countries fascists may not be friends with the "SS" insignia fascists that indeed were seen in Ukraine, but ideology wise - it is still the same side.

And that rhetoric will lose.

[Panos]

As it was since forver until 1993. Ukraine never existed as a country until 1993, nor at a nation.

This is a load of BS from Russian propaganda.

Kiev Rus is as old as Poland and by the same logic, Poland doesn't deserved to exist either after 123 years of partitions.
When the Kiev Rus became a state, Moscow was a forest for next 300 years.

...if anything Hitler was using the same arguments when invading Poland.

Find me a map over the last 2000 years where there is a country names Ukraine with a nation called Ukranians.

Open some history books for heaven sake.

[fiksal]

Find me a map over the last 2000 years where there is a country names Ukraine with a nation called Ukranians.

maps.google.com


where are you from "buddy"?

[fiksal]

So what is the end-game here? Is Putin willing to engage in a forever war in Ukraine? Doesn't seem very productive or sustainable.

End game. Putin thinks this will be weekend war and Europe will cave and lift sanctions after the war is over.

He also thinks Ukrainians will submit like Crimea did, and opposition will be easy to squash / jail / murder.

And the final result, one more (first?) step towards USSR. And he'll be hailed as savior of Russian people at home.

[Panos]

So what is the end-game here? Is Putin willing to engage in a forever war in Ukraine? Doesn't seem very productive or sustainable.

The war ended actually. Within the first 11 hours, 45% of Ukraine had fallen without much resistance. Expect by tomorrow noon be done completely.

End goals for Russia are simple.
Ukraine should have a neutral government, like pre 2014 who will never join NATO.

Anyone finding this unreasonable, then should support Russia to put nukes in Cuba otherwise is a hypocrite who deserves what is due if situation escalates.

[Panos]

Find me a map over the last 2000 years where there is a country names Ukraine with a nation called Ukranians.

maps.google.com


where are you from "buddy"?

Pre 1993 there was never a country called Ukraine, nor a nation. This is the argument.
Is a made up country last 25 years, which the majority are identify as Russians as they were always last 1400 years.