Russia-Ukraine War

[Vertigo 7]

Well, since you were so right about Russia not invading, I'm gonna go ahead and opt to deny your request, comrade.

[Cpt.Jericho]

At least I'm aware that nuclear warheads don't get transferred into a mirror-universe when shot down by western war-criminals.

[burger1]

A video from the Developers of Stalker 2 on the progress of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RUvCVNeOH0

The youtube traveller Bald and Bankrupt evacuated from Ukraine also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzBxFH_hEwA

[Vertigo 7]

At least I'm aware that nuclear warheads don't get transferred into a mirror-universe when shot down by western war-criminals.

I'm really not surprised you think shooting down a nuclear missile is somehow a war crime. I'm more surprised that you think people believe missiles being shot down disappear into the aether. But you keep on keepin on, comrade. I'm sure Putin will sleep easier knowing you're here to spread his good word!

[Cpt.Jericho]

Shooting down nuclear missiles isn't. But ambushing countries under the guise having proof of weapons of mass destruction is.
Also, you should stop calling people names just because they have a different opinion than yours - that's what bullies do.

[CBJ]

Both of you are going to stop making this personal, right now. Discuss the topic, not each other, or stay out of the thread.

[Falcrack]

Shooting down nuclear missiles isn't. But ambushing countries under the guise having proof of weapons of mass destruction is.
Also, you should stop calling people names just because they have a different opinion than yours - that's what bullies do.

The US invading Iraq in 2003 was a moment I was not proud of then, nor now. I will not defend it, though I am a citizen of the US. But our mistake then should not be used to justify the mistake Russia is making right now.

[notaterran]

I agree with the sentiment below, what could possibly motivate so many Republicans to side with Putin?

In recruiting American propagandists to do his bidding, Putin has plenty to work with. A Yahoo News/YouGov poll reaffirmed Republicans' admiration for him, with 62% of GOP voters saying that he was a "stronger leader" than the democratically elected president who has spearheaded international opposition to Russia's invasion.

Recent days have showcased the breathtaking courage of the Ukrainian people. But they have highlighted the real disease within America that somehow Americans will have to find a way to cure.

Link

Russian propagandists must love Donald Trump and Tucker Carlson.

[pjknibbs]

I agree with the sentiment below, what could possibly motivate so many Republicans to side with Putin?

They sided with Donald Trump as well, I don't think anything comes as a surprise these days.

[Chips]

That's what I'm saying. And ya know, naval fleets operated by the UK and EU are also very SAM capable as well.

Don't get me wrong, nuclear war would be bad no matter what but it wouldn't be as world ending as one may think. Not to mention, if there's a whiff that we're in subs launching nukes time, the US's sub hunters will be all over the Pacific and Atlantic chasing down Russia's toy boats.

I appreciate people get all chest thumping and nationalistic, and therefore over state their capabilities while understating their "rivals" - but

(for detecting submarines) the best tools are still sonar and magnetic sensing, both of which have limited range. Roughly, magnetic is a kilometre or two, sonar can be five to fifty kilometres depending on the submarine, the sensor and the ocean conditions.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/aukus-n ... ia-warfare

The Ocean is huge, and not sure you appreciate that. Likewise have utter faith in the ability to find subs, but while this may now be 15 years old:

In 2005, the USS Ronald Reagan, a newly constructed $6.2 billion aircraft carrier, sank after being hit by torpedoes.

Fortunately, this did not occur in actual combat but was simulated as part of a war game pitting a carrier task force including numerous antisubmarine escorts against HSMS Gotland, a small Swedish diesel-powered submarine displacing 1,600 tons. Yet despite making multiple attacks runs on the Reagan, the Gotland was never detected.

This outcome was replicated time and time again over two years of war games, with opposing destroyers and nuclear attack submarines succumbing to the stealthy Swedish sub.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-swe ... ?r=US&IR=T

Tech will have moved on undoubtedly, and it's true it was in coastal waters and operating at its most stealthy because of that... but it just underlines the search for subs may not be as trivial as you think. There's a reason why nations invest in submarines for decades without a war.

Furthermore, systems like Patriot may not be as reliable as you imagine, given Saudi was using it when their oil refineries got hit by drones/missiles. When it comes to cruise/ballistic missiles, regardless of warheads, you can't afford to miss. I'd not like to test how reliable various systems are with an actual war against an opponent who is supposed to have some of the best missile tech going.

Also, you mention naval fleets of the EU. What systems, how effective, how many are at sea? Most Russian missiles wouldn't necessarily be coming by sea either. Just pointed out that the UK has all but 1 T45 destroyers alongside, several for a few years. On paper they should be effective, but in reality they're not even working. Similar may be said for Russia and its capabilities, and evidenced by their current issues with Ukraine that may even be accurate, but I wouldn't be quite so quick to dismiss things as it'd appear you are. I mean, the military don't appear to dismiss Russian missile capabilities. But believing "we'll be okay, sod Eastern Europe" isn't an acceptable standpoint to consider whether a war would be "as world ending as people think". If Eastern Europe is flattened and millions die, it is absolutely a non starter.

Either way, hopefully it's all pointless chat. We're not going to get involved unless Russia lashes out for some reason, so hypothesis over capabilities is pointless chest thumping waffle. So moving on to ignoring all this jingoistic stuff, concentrate more on what's actually happening.

Hopefully the Ukraine can defend itself and not take too many causalities, while the pressure on Russia increases to the point they back down. Til then, send in the supplies!

I agree with the sentiment below, what could possibly motivate so many Republicans to side with Putin?

In recruiting American propagandists to do his bidding, Putin has plenty to work with. A Yahoo News/YouGov poll reaffirmed Republicans' admiration for him, with 62% of GOP voters saying that he was a "stronger leader" than the democratically elected president who has spearheaded international opposition to Russia's invasion.

Recent days have showcased the breathtaking courage of the Ukrainian people. But they have highlighted the real disease within America that somehow Americans will have to find a way to cure.

Link

Russian propagandists must love Donald Trump and Tucker Carlson.

Are they siding with Putin? Now don't get me wrong, I read that article and some of the comments being highlighted are shockingly bad (that Fox news guy especially). But those comments weren't in the poll afaik. The poll isn't even available to view from some simple searches, just the interpretation of the results, so we've nothing to frame reference with. The poll was also in January 2022, before the actual war.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/poll-as-ukrai ... 37439.html

The survey of 1,568 U.S. adults, which was conducted from Jan. 20 to 24 and includes 500 self-identified Republicans and Republican leaners, also found that the number of GOP respondents who believe Putin is stronger than Biden rises to 71 percent among those who name Fox News as their primary source of cable news — and falls to 54 percent among those who prefer other cable-news channels.

We don't know what the percentage is of other respondents for starters! But it does show that the mouthpieces of Fox can sway opinion. Or maybe it's just those with opinions that align with Fox news watch Fox news, hence the correlation... but I do fear US media polarises politics to the point they're unfoundedly believing Biden poses a bigger threat to the USA than Putin. I mean... come on.

What was interesting is apparently Democrats used to look more favourably at Putin than Republicans, but it all shifted and reversed around 2016...

As William Saletan recently pointed out in Slate, “In Gallup polls before 2016, Republicans generally viewed Russia less favorably than Democrats did. Now it’s the other way around.” Likewise, “Republicans used to be more likely than Democrats to view Russia as a critical threat and to emphasize containment of Russian power rather than ‘friendly cooperation.’” But “by 2017, those numbers had turned upside down: Only one in three Republicans described Russia’s military power as a critical threat, and most said the U.S. should focus on cooperation instead of limiting Russia’s power.”

Polls taken last June also showed that Putin enjoys a better net favorable rating among Republicans than Biden does, by anywhere from 16 to 22 percentage points.

Someone really did screw with USA's political landscape didn't they.

Apparently the super high oil prices (am sure it was 120 dollars a barrel back in 2000 though, so 22 years later we're nearly there again but Petrol prices are double) is due to everywhere sourcing from alternative sources than Russia. That's got to be a good thing; haven't embargoed Russian fuels, but it is sort of having that effect? Is that why strategic reserves are going to be used, not to try and diminish prices, but reduce purchase of Russian oil and therefore reduce Russian income?

[pjknibbs]

Fortunately, this did not occur in actual combat but was simulated as part of a war game pitting a carrier task force including numerous antisubmarine escorts against HSMS Gotland, a small Swedish diesel-powered submarine displacing 1,600 tons. Yet despite making multiple attacks runs on the Reagan, the Gotland was never detected.

it's worth pointing out here that old diesel-electric subs are actually *more* stealthy than any nuclear-powered one. A nuclear reactor can never be fully shut down, so a nuclear sub constantly has coolant pumps running and will be leaving a trail of heated water behind it, neither of which are true of a diesel-electric sub. They can run at low speed underwater with their drive motors barely ticking over and create far less noise.

[Falcrack]

Fortunately, this did not occur in actual combat but was simulated as part of a war game pitting a carrier task force including numerous antisubmarine escorts against HSMS Gotland, a small Swedish diesel-powered submarine displacing 1,600 tons. Yet despite making multiple attacks runs on the Reagan, the Gotland was never detected.

it's worth pointing out here that old diesel-electric subs are actually *more* stealthy than any nuclear-powered one. A nuclear reactor can never be fully shut down, so a nuclear sub constantly has coolant pumps running and will be leaving a trail of heated water behind it, neither of which are true of a diesel-electric sub. They can run at low speed underwater with their drive motors barely ticking over and create far less noise.

In 2005, US anti-sub warfare capabilities had become significantly degraded after years of neglect. But in the years following this, the US has made strong efforts to restore this ability, based on wargame results such as this.

[Tamina]

That is all cool and stuff but this is a war between Russia and Ukraine. And in Ukraine we can see the difference between theory and reality.

[chew-ie]

A video from the Developers of Stalker 2 on the progress of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RUvCVNeOH0

The youtube traveller Bald and Bankrupt evacuated from Ukraine also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzBxFH_hEwA

Just catching up after a busy day @office - but there is really a lot going on right now...

- VW stops production in russia
- GOG stops selling games in russia & belarus
- EA removes russian teams from EA sports games
- Stalker 2 development stalled due to the war (all the best wishes to them)

..holy moly

[mr.WHO]

Quite interesting and well balance coverage of the conflict:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5Bkgu5Z44w

Many examples about mis-infomation warfare on both sides as well as viability of nuclear threads.
Pluas a lot of take on strategy and actions of both sides.

Plus a recording of RU-UKR tankers insulting eachother via radio during the battle:
1:24:05

A beauty of both sides using the same language, equipment and radios.

[Falcrack]

A video from the Developers of Stalker 2 on the progress of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RUvCVNeOH0

The youtube traveller Bald and Bankrupt evacuated from Ukraine also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzBxFH_hEwA

Just catching up after a busy day @office - but there is really a lot going on right now...

- VW stops production in russia
- GOG stops selling games in russia & belarus
- EA removes russian teams from EA sports games
- Stalker 2 development stalled due to the war (all the best wishes to them)

..holy moly

When war stops video game development, then you get gamers attention!

[chew-ie]

Yeah - just imagine Steam, PlayStation store and all the others falling in line...

[mr.WHO]

I think that for now, not be able to play video games is the least problem for Russians.

I mean, they literally can get a free ticket to real life Call of Duty any moment or find out their family members get back in coffin (if they are lucky, there were info of Russia moving their mobile-crematory trucks into Belarus shortly before the invasion).

[chew-ie]

I think that for now, not be able to play video games is the least problem for Russians.

I mean, they literally can get a free ticket to real life Call of Duty any moment or find out their family members get back in coffin (if they are lucky, there were info of Russia moving their mobile-crematory trucks into Belarus shortly before the invasion).

That's for sure - just trying to see some positive coming from all of this. Everyone is turning against russians now and increases pressure on both Putin and the economic elite. Even some "unimportant" sectors like gaming industry is starting to draw a line. That's so far unique - or at least I can't remember anything comparable like that (not being around that long though).

[mr.WHO]

Apparently there is a Russian fleet with several assault ships coming for Odessa.
I hope Ukraine has some ASM prepared to score a big russian piniata or two.

Given how close it's to Romania border they should have a nice target solution from the AWACS there.

Other point of note is that coming to Odessa via land from East/Crimea is a giant horror for Russia, as there are dozens of rivers and very few bridges and a lot of ideal choke points for defenders.
You would need something like a small operation Market Garden to even hope to break through.